Religion Stratagy

[JuliusAugustus]

build the apostolic palace with a religion nobody has as a state Religion if nobody converts to that religion your the only one eligible for the apostolic palace

 

[InvisibleStalke]

Even better build it for a religion you control the holy city of. Ever seen what happens when half the worlds cities follow your religion? 50 gold from a shrine before multipliers. War allies that will follow your lead against the heathen and guard your backs.

 

[fuzzynutz]

The only reason to build the AP if you are the only religion would be for the +2 hammers from the holy buildings of that religion and to prevent what InvisibleStalke said from happening to you! You get the gold regardless of whether or not you have the AP (I know you didn't imply that, I was just stating).

 

[TheDS]

It appears to me the OP intended this to be a sure-win strategy. I don't know if the original release made it possible to win this way, but it doesn't work now.

NOW, having AP on a religion no one else has just means that you're the only one that gets the Hammer bonus for your buildings, AND that everyone hates you because they're all heathens. To cure THAT, you need to send out some Missionaries of your faith, preferably to Civs that have little in the way of religions themselves, and possibly also to one or two powerhouses, with the goal of converting them to your cause and then using them as a sort-of alliance to attack heathens.

I'm not sure what is required to get a massive DoW against someone, if them not having AP religion as state religion is enough, or if there can be none of AP's religion in their cities, but it's probably the latter, as the former would still give them votes.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

The trick is to have 2 religions. One is the state religion of other civs. This is the religion you normally run. The other is a religion unique to you (most likely, you founded it). This is the religion you switch to right before the AP is completed. Once it's built, you switch back.

If you meet the above requirements, you have sole control of the AP religion and favorable diplomacy. I don't think it takes rocket science to figure out how to win from there.

Do remember that as long as you're not in the AP religion itself, you can force people to vassal to you with military and then make them switch to your current (non AP) religion. This is doubly useful because vassals in such a scenario will vote for you.

This makes building the AP in a religion that nobody has as a state religion indeed very powerful, even potentially game breaking. However, if going for a diplo win you actually don't want to run that religion afterward. Very bizarre.

By controlling your spread of religion it's pretty easy to manipulate it so you have less than 75% of the votes, but enough friendly votes to have more.

 

[Sian]

well, AP, Sixtine Chapel, Spiral minerat and University of Sarkore is an evil combo which can carry you a long way in any case then all religius buildings gives 5 culture, 2 beakers, 2 gold and 2 hammers ... thats downright evil

 

[obsolete]

build the apostolic palace with a religion nobody has as a state Religion if nobody converts to that religion your the only one eligible for the apostolic palace

Which, means you can't even get the option to vote yourself for a diplo victory...

 

[TheDS]

Religious victory is very difficult to get; it's very easy for your main competitor to wind up having enough votes all by himself to prevent your win. TMIT's strategy probably gives you a good shot at it. I managed to get one through a lot of trickery and some reloads to figure out what the rules were, and you can read about it by clicking the link in my sig.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Which, means you can't even get the option to vote yourself for a diplo victory...

Until you spread it only to the AI friendly with you, then quickly to the smallest city of all remaining civs.

Then you win instantly .

 

[Guardian_PL]

See obsolete? If not themeinteam surely you wouldn't have known that

Seriously, why this thread is thrashing Strategy Articles?

 

[Yamps]

Do remember that as long as you're not in the AP religion itself, you can force people to vassal to you with military and then make them switch to your current (non AP) religion. This is doubly useful because vassals in such a scenario will vote for you.

Aren't vassals obliged to vote for you anyway, if they are not eligible for the win themselves?

And can you really get your vassals to change religions/civics in 3.17? There are some bugs in 3.17 regarding that.

IMO, the Religious victory is completely broken. It's very easy to win it as you described. You just need one friend, minor religion and do the spreading. Btw, is gifting missionaries to civs in Theocracy patched out?

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Vassals do have to vote for you, but one of the problems with the AP is other civs being eligible. If you vassal them, they'll still vote for themselves, unless you force them out.

There IS what is (in my opinion, and I'm not alone) a LONG STANDING BUG that makes leaders who are running their favorite civic refuse ALL OTHER CIVIC CHANGES TOO. Sury's in OR! Switching from merc or even decentralization will now "go against everything he stands for!", even though it didn't two turns ago! My !@#$%. ANYWAY, an exception is for vassals - you can tell them to do pretty much what you want in terms of civics for very cheap bribes, even removing their favorite civic.

Bhruic's 3.13 patched out gifting missionaries to theo civs - 3.17 did not make this fix so you can do it again. At least you have to have open borders though - gifting caravels doesn't seem to work.

Note that on difficulties emperor +, it isn't ALL THAT easy to set up winning conditions. A lot of problems can happen, like other civs beating you to theology and thus the AP (it's much slower if you get theo first), people killing you early, or the AP religion spreading and being adopted by a nearby power (especially a problem if you're on a continent without religion). Once you get through all that, you still have to worry about getting at least 1 AI to friendly or vassal status, getting through closed borders of people like toku or differing religion izzy, and of course the fact that a lot of civs will declare at pleased.

Sure, it's easier than conquest, but not by a great deal, and often not until you have other victories shored up.

 

[Yamps]

@TheMeInTeam

Thanks for the response!

There IS what is (in my opinion, and I'm not alone) a LONG STANDING BUG that makes leaders who are running their favorite civic refuse ALL OTHER CIVIC CHANGES TOO. Sury's in OR! Switching from merc or even decentralization will now "go against everything he stands for!", even though it didn't two turns ago! My !@#$%. ANYWAY, an exception is for vassals - you can tell them to do pretty much what you want in terms of civics for very cheap bribes, even removing their favorite civic.

Yes, this notorious "feature" is in Vanilla too. But there is a much bigger bug in 3.17 that prevents the AI to recognize the attitude it has towards you for some deals. For example, they will give you "We don't like you enough" while Friendly because they think they are only Cautious! I suppose that Vassals aren't effected with this. See this bug report: 3.17 AI won't adopt civics and the original bug report by DanF577: RefuseAttitudeThresholds not working ???

Bhruic's 3.13 patched out gifting missionaries to theo civs - 3.17 did not make this fix so you can do it again. At least you have to have open borders though - gifting caravels doesn't seem to work.

I wonder if Solver patched this? I think I'll go and test this now.

Note that on difficulties emperor +, it isn't ALL THAT easy to set up winning conditions. A lot of problems can happen, like other civs beating you to theology and thus the AP (it's much slower if you get theo first), people killing you early, or the AP religion spreading and being adopted by a nearby power (especially a problem if you're on a continent without religion). Once you get through all that, you still have to worry about getting at least 1 AI to friendly or vassal status, getting through closed borders of people like toku or differing religion izzy, and of course the fact that a lot of civs will declare at pleased.

Sure, it's easier than conquest, but not by a great deal, and often not until you have other victories shored up.

I'm not an expert, but I've done it on Immortal recently and it felt like a very easy win, comparing to other victory conditions at least. I see in your sig that you've played many AP games, I'll check them out. Btw, there is a HoF gauntlet going on right now: immortal Ice Age Religious victory, maybe it will interest you. I've never played for HoF but I'm tempted to try this. Best results are around ~1000BC, but those are accomplished only when all civs are reachable without Astronomy. WastinTime also has Deity level Religious BC HoF records. HoF games are played in the best possible circumstances but I'm pretty much convinced that Religious victory is the easiest way to beat Immortal and Deity. Nothing will help you when you get an early DoW of course, but still.

G-Major 34

Oh, and this thread really should be moved to strategy & tips.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I've only been a consistent emperor player for like the past 2-3 months, and am only now starting to adjust to immortal. I finally downloaded HoF mod and will be participating in the current SGOTM, but very new to that part of the forum. I'll surely check those games out, but I wanted to raise my skill a bit first .

I will also check those games out purely for insight - attaining the AP before or at 1000 BC is pretty difficult IMO but maybe I'm doing something wrong. I HAVE realized that if you get theology first, the AI will "sour grapes" it and avoid it for a long time. On emperor, you can even build it as late as 500-800 AD this way, although a bit earlier is safer. It seems damn hard to get 1st on immortal though, so I'll have to see how they're doing it.