Religions

[The Capo]

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RELIGIONS​

This thread is for the discussion of all things religious in Diplomacy II. This includes the religions themselves, as well as their buildings, missionaries, inquisitors, and the religious victory.

 

[The Capo]

NEW RELIGIONS​

Diplomacy II offers eleven new religions for a total of 18 religions in the game. Currently these religions are only accessible with the "choose religion" option selected, but I am currently working on a way around that. But if you'd like to know the religions here they are:

• Anunnaki - Anunnaki is the name of the Mesopotamian (Babylonian/Sumerian) pantheon. It is a polytheistic religion centering around Marduk, but generally speaking each city-state in Mesopotamia had their own patron gods as well. When one city conquered another, that city would have to adopt a new patron god (i.e. the god of the victorious city). This occured over and over again, until Marduk became the prevailing god under the Babylonian Empire.
• Aesir - Aesir is the name of a specific pantheon of Norse deities. These deities often fought amongst eachother as well as against giants, ogres, and other mythical creatures. In Diplomacy II only the Vikings favor this religion, however these beliefs were quite similar (and related) to ancient Germanic religious beliefs.
• Druidism - Druidism is the religion of the Celts, it combines elements of animism and polytheism. This religion, like many other ancient religions, involved sacrifice (and in extreme, often military cases, human sacrifice) and a reverence for nature.
• Ba'alism - This religion covers the Levant/Eastern Mediterranean beliefs. Ba'al is a title (roughly meaning "lord") given to the supreme deity, which changed often depending on which city-state you lived in. This religion was followed by Canaanites, Phoenicians and Carthaginians and was probably the precursor to the ancient Hebrew religion Judaism.
• Olympic Pantheon - This is the religion of the Hellenic Greeks, it was also adopted by the Romans, Latins, Thracians, and Etruscans to name a few.
• Pesedjet - This is the ancient Egyptian religion, which was based upon worship of the sun and the nile. The concept of birth, death and rebirth was a common theme as the sun arose and set every morning and the ebb and flow of the nile. Many believe that the ancient Egyptian religion was influential on Christianity.
• Shamanism - this is not so much a religion as it is a type of style of religion. In Diplomacy II this religion serves as a "catch-all" for the native North American civs like the Iroquois and Sioux.
• Shinto - this is a Japanese religion, it has elements of animism and ancestor worship.
• Teotl - this word describes the pantheon of meso-American deities. It is favored by the Aztecs and Maya, and involves various deities that sacrifices (often human sacrifices) are made to. In this religion blood is seen as a holy material, and it is highly valued. Human blood is especially valuable and often given to the gods for various reasons. Mainly war and rainfall.
• Vodun/Voodoo - this religion covers both caribbean and east sub-saharan African religions.
• Zoroastrianism - this is an ancient Persian monotheistic religion.

If I said anything incorrect here please let me know, I just wrote this from the top of my head so I could easily be mistaken about something. The descriptions aren't really important here though.

 

[AbsintheRed]

I quickly made this sheet to summarize the changes to the religion and missionary names.
It's not complete yet, wasn't sure in a few cases what's your final decision.
Also, there are the plans how to change the double speed and resource bonus of the various cathedrals.
I just thought it will be easier if we have these all in one place


EDIT: removed, see newer version in later posts

 

[The Capo]

Yeah, that is another thing I could do for the playtest after next. Thanks for that, I nearly forgot we discussed that before. Good thing we got this sub-forum I guess.

 

[AbsintheRed]

Did you check the sheet?
What's the final name for the Voodoo and Olympian religion?
And I don't really like the sound of Drudic Druid and Shamanistic Shaman, maybe we should change those missionary names too...

 

[The Capo]

If/when I change the names of the missionaries they won't be in the style of "Christian Missionary," it would just say Missionary. So it wouldn't be Islamic Imam, it would just say Imam. So for the two you used as an example the unit would just be called "Druid" and "Shaman" respectively.

 

[AbsintheRed]

Oh, alright
I just made my comment based on this:

I think, even if I do add the new names, I'm still going to include the religious description, just for those of us who are not as educated on the matter, or are just too stupid to realize what it is from the button. So it would be Ba'alite Kohen, Zoroastrian Magi, Christian Missionary etc.

 

[The Almighty dF]

I quickly made this sheet to summarize the changes to the religion and missionary names.
It's not complete yet, wasn't sure in a few cases what's your final decision.
Also, there are the plans how to change the double speed and resource bonus of the various cathedrals.
I just thought it will be easier if we have these all in one place

All fine but... Witch Doctor. Can we maybe find a better term than that?
The others are -great-, though. That's the only one that doesn't sound as real to me.
I'm used to witch doctor just being a derogative term. The correct term is Houngan, isn't it?

 

[Xyth]

All fine but... Witch Doctor. Can we maybe find a better term than that?
The others are -great-, though. That's the only one that doesn't sound as real to me.
I'm used to witch doctor just being a derogative term. The correct term is Houngan, isn't it?

Yep Houngan is the correct term. The missionary names in the list look good, but for Olympianism it should be Heirophant, and for Teotl, Tlamacazqui. I unfortuanately cannot find a more suitable missionary name for Pesedjet.

 

[The Almighty dF]

Yep Houngan is the correct term. The missionary names in the list look good, but for Olympianism it should be Heirophant, and for Teotl, Tlamacazqui. I unfortuanately cannot find a more suitable missionary name for Pesedjet.

Personally, I'd keep Pesedjet as priest. I'm so used to Egyptian holymen being priests.

 

[Xyth]

Personally, I'd keep Pesedjet as priest. I'm so used to Egyptian holymen being priests.

I agree. In many ways Ancient Egypt is the archetype of what priesthood and state religions is all about. Priest works perfectly, I was just hoping to find the actual Egyptian term.

 

[The Almighty dF]

I agree. In many ways Ancient Egypt is the archetype of what priesthood and state religions is all about. Priest works perfectly, I was just hoping to find the actual Egyptian term.

Hem-netjer is the correct term for an Egyptian priest.

 

[The Capo]

Yeah, Absinthe, sorry about that confusion. I originally wanted to call the Shamanist missionary a "Medicine Man," but then I figured that Shamanistic Medicine Man was too long and probably pretty inaccurate. So I kind of decided in my head to just call them by their names without the religious description. I guess I never mentioned it. That's what happens when you are working on so many things at once.

The original reason I wanted to include the reilgious descriptors, if you recall, was that some people were worried that it might be confusing which religion each missionary represents. Although the button is quite clear, and to be honest there is a civilopedia. And I wouldn't be myself if I didn't say this: if you can't figure it out you are an idiot. So yeah, no religious descriptors.

 

[AbsintheRed]

No problem for me at all
So Houngan for Vodun/Voodoo, and Tlamacazqui for Teotl if there are no better ideas.
But if we have Priest for Pesedjet, I kinda like to have Priestess for Olympianism...
For Aesir, Volur or Gooai is the better term?

 

[The Capo]

To make it easier on everyone else I decided to post AbsintheRed's religion chart. If you are new to this forum/mod we are also editing the double production and happiness resources for the new religions, as well as the stock-religions. Here is his chart:

Spoiler :

​

As you can see some of the items are marked in yellow, these are either things I forgot to change, or things AbsintheRed believes should be changed. I agree with all of them, but we just need to iron out what we are going to do about these changes, that's basically what is happening here.

 

[The Almighty dF]

Also temple would be hewet-netjer, if you're curious.

 

[AbsintheRed]

Since then I realized that I mistyped the Anunnaki name, and wrote the new suggestions to the chart
The yellow means there I wasn't sure which would be the best to use.
Right new on the missionaries the undecided ones are Volur/Goodai for Aesir, Jman/Tlamacazqui for Teotl, Witch Doctor/Houngan for Vodun/Voodoo
The Kohen, Druid and Shaman are not yellow anymore

The list of DPS and bonuses for cathedrals should definitely be better.
Another idea for that: maybe we could have happiness bonus with cows for Hinduism

 

[The Capo]

The list of DPS and bonuses for cathedrals should definitely be better.
Another idea for that: maybe we could have happiness bonus with cows for Hinduism

I am shocked that this is just now being suggested. I can't believe we didn't think of that earlier. Good call.

 

[The Almighty dF]

Since then I realized that I mistyped the Anunnaki name, and wrote the new suggestions to the chart
The yellow means there I wasn't sure which would be the best to use.
Right new on the missionaries the undecided ones are Volur/Goodai for Aesir, Jman/Tlamacazqui for Teotl, Witch Doctor/Houngan for Vodun/Voodoo
The Kohen, Druid and Shaman are not yellow anymore

The list of DPS and bonuses for cathedrals should definitely be better.
Another idea for that: maybe we could have happiness bonus with cows for Hinduism

I vote:
Goodaj, Tlamacazqui, Houngan.

Also, maybe replace "Pesedjet Pyramids" with the term I suggested, hewet-netjer.

 

[The Capo]

Well, that depends on what exactly a Hewet-Netjer is. The building is a pyramid, and with the ethnic city-styles I don't really have a lot of wiggle room on changing the building.