Request for an Event tweak

[Breez]

We have all seen the event where they villagers want to burn the witch because she turned a guy into a newt. Where your options are we don't kill at the whim of the people. (nothing happens) or Kill her ( +1 )

One of the things I have would love to see is an alignment change associated with the options.

+2/-2 alignment maybe? (personally I would like more but seems excessive to go higher)

I look at the +1 as detrimental really as AI governed towns may removed a specialist and grow into unhappiness once the temp happy goes away, so I would recommend removing that outcome and having alignment change be the only effect.

 

[Iceciro]

I don't know, I'm pretty sure this event is another Monty Python homage and is therefore supposed to do nothing but make you snicker a bit.

That said, it does come up A LOT. Often multiple times in the same game. So it should either do something more lasting or not come up so bloody much.

 

[Lemminkäinen]

Oh wow - I actually always thought that burning the witch upped the AC by one

 

[Breez]

I don't know, I'm pretty sure this event is another Monty Python homage and is therefore supposed to do nothing but make you snicker a bit.

That said, it does come up A LOT. Often multiple times in the same game. So it should either do something more lasting or not come up so bloody much.

Exactly what I was thinking. I might see it 3-5 times per game. I would love to see some non-religious ways to change my alignment. Events, or more buildings like Infirmary.

Heck if it just changed the AC +/- 1 that would be great too

 

[Iceciro]

Dungeon does it towards evil, just usually there's no reason to build the things.
That's actually why my Controlling trait has it give +1 happy to leaders with the trait, so somebody would make them. (Controlling trait, you ask? Wait for the next batch of modular mods )

Spoiler :

Back ontopic: I dunno if I want it to give positives or minuses. I don't take the +1 happy because it makes my AI governors grow the city, then the happy dissipates and my city is overpopped. I don't want my leader to be getting alignment buffs for not listening to my populace because I hate them anyways.

Just needs to happen rarely. It's mostly annoying as it stands.

 

[odalrick]

One problem with changing the AC of alignment is that it is unclear which option should change in which direction.

On the one hand giving in to mob rule should raise the AC. On the other hand letting a witch live should raise the AC.

On the gripping hand saving a life should lower the AC. And killing witches should lower the AC.

Then there is me who always answers "No we don't kill on the whim of the people" with the unspoken rider that we only kill on my whims. "Now let's go torture some prisoners. Cheswick, fresh horses!"

 

[Iceciro]

Then there is me who always answers "No we don't kill on the whim of the people" with the unspoken rider that we only kill on my whims. "Now let's go torture some prisoners. Cheswick, fresh horses!"

Exactly - I don't kill people when my citizens ask because it's my empire, not theirs, and they exist to serve my whims.

 

[Brokenbone]

Maybe alignment hits, or AC hits, make sense on some events, but then that level of additional detail to the events makes you consider whether there might not need to be another one, two, or ten civ or religious specific options to add to the list!

The witch one for example, add:

[__] Hire her! (Requires Sheaim, receive a Mobius Witch)
[__] Parade her through the streets of (cityname), as a prelude to her stoning (Requires Order... or Requires Bannor, +2 happy for 10 turns)
[__] See if there's any truth to it, inquire more deeply into her abilities (Requires Amurites and a Mage Guild, 50% chance of +50 beakers, if no beakers, 50% chance of +1 unhappy face for 10 turns)
[__] One of our Thralls has mastered the art? Odd. Keep her handy. (Requires Jotnar and a Thrall Militia in the city, that Thrall Militia gains promotions sufficient to be able to cast one or more level 1 spells.)

etc.

Again, you'll probably find a lore reason per religion or civ to do something that has little to do with alignment, but more to do with the society this little event pops up in. Note further I'm not a "lore expert", those are just examples which might fit okay, and don't seem impossible to achieve based on what I've seen other events do.

 

[WarKirby]

I think we definitely need a "Hire the witch" option. I wouldn't go as specific as requiring sheiam or a mobius witch, though. I'd just give you a free adept. The comon people don't have a clue on he difference between a witch, adept, mage, wizard, or shaman. They just see big scary magic.

 

[Brokenbone]

*shrugs* Maybe you get an adept who starts with the promotion "Prophecy Mark", drives the AC up by a point, which can be cured when the adept gets dead or disbanded. May help explain how you got an Adept before KOTE was researched, they must've made a pact with demons. Still though, even at the start of the game you sometimes seem to have Adepts-unrepresented-by-units (and often pre-KOTE) for the purposes of events, like Nature (Muris dump), Body (disease in city), Enchantment (meteor / staff), Spirit (burnt orphanage), maybe more.

 

[Breez]

Maybe alignment hits, or AC hits, make sense on some events, but then that level of additional detail to the events makes you consider whether there might not need to be another one, two, or ten civ or religious specific options to add to the list!

Absolutely but that isn't a easy or quick change. Xinwolf has been discussing an entire rework of all the events...

I think we definitely need a "Hire the witch" option. I wouldn't go as specific as requiring sheiam or a mobius witch, though. I'd just give you a free adept. The comon people don't have a clue on he difference between a witch, adept, mage, wizard, or shaman. They just see big scary magic.

That would be a good option too. Could even have +1 for 10 turns associated with it.

 

[WarKirby]

Ok, My thoughts on how this event should go then.

Option 1:
We don't execute on the whim of the people
+1 for 10 turns
Raises your alignment by 10 points
-1 to the AC

Option 2:
Do as they wish, have her executed
+1 for 10 turns
Lowers your alignment by 10 points
+1 to the AC

Option 3:
Those gifted in the arcane arts are wasted practicing in the wilderness. Enlist this person into the service of the nation.
+1 for 20 turns
Recieve 1 free Adept (unit, not unitclass, to prevent issues with the Jotnar)

Thoughts ?

 

[Breez]

I would love to see that event right there.

 

[MaxAstro]

Personally I would love to see the event split into two identical events. Leave the choices as they are right now, but something along the following lines:

When you get the event, you have no way of telling "which" witch event it is (see what I did that? ), and there is nothing to indicate what the result of each option will be. For one of the events (she's actually a witch), killing the witch lowers the AC and causes temporary happiness. Letting her live, however, has some nasty side-effect and raises the AC. For the other event, however (she's innocent), killing her raises the AC and has some nasty PR backlash when its found out that she's innocent. Meanwhile, letting her live causes temporary happiness or some other such bonus.

I would probably also add in an Evil-only option to recruit the witch, which gives you an Adept with Prophecy Mark if she's actually a witch, but backfires somehow if she isn't.

Basically the idea would be to force the player to make a choice without really knowing what they outcome of their choice will be.

 

[WarKirby]

Basically the idea would be to force the player to make a choice without really knowing what they outcome of their choice will be.

I fail to see how this is fun in any way. What's the point in having a choice at all, then? Why not just have an event "the armageddon counter rises for no apparent reason". If you have no knowledge of the consequences, a choice is pretty meaningless.

But why should recruiting the witch be evil? The amurites have a society full of witches and wizards. They're not evil. In fact, almost every civ uses adepts or magic users of some description, including good nations.

A Mobius witch is a different sort of creature entirely.


As a side note, I believe this event originally came from BtS, wasn't added by Kael. It's supposed to represent medieval era superstition in a time where christianity ruled and witches didn't really exist. Doesn't quite fit in erebus..

 

[Iceciro]

I always thought it was a veiled reference to the "we found a witch, can we burn her" part of Holy Grail.

And as a sidenote, I have to say I also dislike Astro's way of doing things via two events with no way to tell the difference. Either the choices I make are good or they aren't - they shouldn't be right in one circumstance and wrong in the other depending on which stealth event I got.

 

[Breez]

I have to agree. I don't really like the unknown results. It isn't fun for me.

I wouldn't mind if it was 2 events that were identical. The alinement and happiness stay the same, the hiring her stays the same but the AC reverses on weather she really was a witch or not... of course it hiring 2 different units might be funny too. one a witch the other an adept.

 

[Iceciro]

While we're on the subject of Events: Muris clan goblins dumping event sucks. A lot.
It needs to be reversible down the line, or temporary, or something. A random event that can hit twice within 50 turns does not need to permanently remove a food from my capital square, especially when the ONLY remedy is to have Nature mana available when the event hits.

 

[MaxAstro]

While we're on the subject of Events: Muris clan goblins dumping event sucks. A lot.
It needs to be reversible down the line, or temporary, or something. A random event that can hit twice within 50 turns does not need to permanently remove a food from my capital square, especially when the ONLY remedy is to have Nature mana available when the event hits.

I have to agree that this event is horrible, but are you sure it can still hit city tiles? I was pretty sure it was made so that tiles with roads are immune to this event.

My preference on this event would be to change it to Frostlings or something similar and have the tile turned into Tundra (alternatively, Marsh, if you stick with the Muris Clan goblins). That way at least it can't hit the same tile twice, and it can be reversed by terraforming.

On the subject of the witch event: Yeah, I can see what you mean. My thought was that as a ruler, there are times when one has to make choices without knowing the consequences. But I can see how that would reduce the "fun" element.

OTOH, there already is an event or two that reads "The Armageddon counter rises/falls for no apparent reason".

 

[WarKirby]

For the trash event. If I ever get around to sorting that, I'll have it create a "trash heap" improvement which reduces food in the tile, and can be removed by workers.