[GS] Requesting Modder for Rebalancing Military units. Minor changes to fix AC units and the RPS system

[Ownsya]

As the title says. Following a lengthy and rich discussion over why anti-cavalry (AC) units suck (or are underutilized) here as well as a deep analysis that is partly in the thread and partly in this reference I posted on relative unit strengths and costs, I believe I have managed to figure out some sensible tweaks to improve the warfare experience and make AC units more relevant.

My idea to balance things out in simple terms, is to increase (slightly) the vulnerability of melee to cavalry, and increase (slightly) the vulnerability of cavalry to AC. By doing so, it makes AC units more important because they become an even better counter to cavalry, and because Melee become weaker against Cavalry thus requiring the assistance of AC. Not all the changes will affect all matchups, they are somewhat finetuned such that the nice balance found in the ancient era where melee > ac > cavalry > melee, becomes consistent throughout the ages. These changes are simple, and hopefully do not tip the balance anywhere or under any kind of scenario.

List of Changes:

1. Introduce a new rule: Cavalry get +3 bonus str when fighting Melee.
2. Spearman production cost -10 = 55, puts their cost-efficiency more in line with chariots and horsemen. Possibly lower this another 5 to 50.
   
3. Horsemen Str -2 = 34
   
4. Pikeman production cost -30 = 150, again this is to fix the cost-efficency curve of AC units so it's closer to the other classes.
5. Cavalry Str -2 = 60, to offset the new advantage rule, since they're already strong v melee.
   
6. Cuirassier Str -2 = 62, to offset the new advantage rule, since they're already strong v melee.
7. Infantry Str +3 = 73
8. AT Crew Str +3 = 73
9. Tank Str -2 = 78. This and the previous two changes are to make Tanks more vulnerable to AT, while still strong against Infantry, without changing the dynamic between AT Crew and Infantry.
   
10. Artillery melee Str +3, to not weaken their defense
11. Machine Guns melee and ranged Str +3, to not weaken their defense or attack. They are slightly stronger v Tanks but won't hurt them much.
12. Modern Armor Str -2 = 88.
13. Modern AT Str +3 = 83.
14. The previous two changes make it so class dynamics in the information era are similar to how they were in the Ancient era: melee > ac > cavalry > melee. Cav will be a bit more vulnerable to AC, Melee a bit more vulnerable to Cav. Modern AT a bit more resistant to Infantry, but still quite vulnerable.

Implementing these changes, the new relative unit strengths table looks like so:

Spoiler :

And the new cost-efficiency curves look like this:

Spoiler :

Please refer to the official stats I posted in the references sub for comparison.


What to expect with these changes:

1. Dynamic between Melee and AC is largely unchanged.
2. By emphasizing slightly more the class vulnerabilities (namely melee's vulnerability to cav, and cav's vulnerability to AC) it makes attacking at a class disadvantage a more risky endeavor. This in turn incentivizes a more diverse army.

Ancient Era -

• Heavy Chariots are now even stronger (+11) against Warriors (up from +8). This is probably the change that will be felt most directly and immediately.
  
• Spearmen are cheaper to produce at 55 cost (down from 65). Considering lowering this another 5, down to 50.

Classical Era -

• Horsemen now get a Minor victory (+1) against Swordsmen (up from a Stalemate)
• Spearmen now get a Minor victory (+1) against Horsemen (up from -1)
• These changes ensure that Horsemen are not supreme in the classical era. This is important because It takes significantly longer to unlock Pikemen than Horsemen.

Medieval Era -

• Pikeman are a bit cheaper to produce at 150 cost (down from 180).

Renaissance & Industrial Eras -

• Cavalry slightly stronger (+8) against Musketmen (up from +7).
• Cuirassier slightly stronger (+10) against Musketmen (up from +9).
• Pike & Shot now get a Major victory (+5) against Cavalry (up from +3).
• Pike & Shot slightly stronger (+3) against Cuirassier (up from +1).

Modern Era -

• This is the first era since Ancient, where new units of the 3 RPS classes are available in the same era. Expect similar dynamics to the Ancient Era with these changes.
• The major change is that AT Crew now get the minimum Major victory (+5) against Tanks (up from a Stalemate).
• Tanks now only have +8 against Infantry (down from +10).

Atomic & Information Eras -

• Again here, new units of the 3 RPS classes are available in this era. Expect similar dynamics to the Ancient Era with these changes.
  
• Mechanized Infantry now stalemate with Helicopters (before they would beat Helicopters).
• The major change is that now Modern AT get the minimum Major victory (+5) against Modern Armor (up from a Stalemate).
• Modern Armor now get +6 against Mech. Infantry (up from +5).
• Mechanized Infantry slightly weaker (+12) against Modern AT (down from +15).

Possible Tech Tree Changes:

• Spearmen unlocked with Irrigation, maintenance cost lowered to 0 gold. This is a better placement for them in the tech tree and more inline with a non-aggressive military focus. (Farmers with rakes are not too far off from spearmen).
  
• Hoplites no longer replace Spearmen and they are still unlocked by Bronzeworking and cost 1 gold maintenance.
• When playing Greece, Spearmen can upgrade to Hoplites for a minor sum, or Hoplites can be built directly after Bronzeworking is researched.

Are these changes perfect? Probably not. My goal again was to maintain the RPS relationship established in the ancient era throughout the game's eras. What I hope to do with these changes is to make class advantages more important and thus make AC more relevant without changing their purpose as first and foremost defensive/support units. I also expect it to be a little bit easier to defend, ie harder to conquer. I'm okay with that as I think it should be easier to defend than it is to attack.
If you're attacking you better have some melee along with your Cavalry or else the defender will be successful with AC and ranged alone. Possibly bring some AC depending on the situation and for increased support.
If you're defending, AC units are quite reliable supported by ranged units. Even against, melee, promoted AC units can potentially hold them off with the right defensive positions, thus rewarding good handling of early units (ie promotions) and good use of tactics.

I believe these changes will make warfare a bit more interesting, diverse, and more tactical.

If anyone knows how to make mods, feel free to take these suggested changes and make one. If you'd like to collaborate with me in getting this mod made, well I just need someone to make these changes into a workable mod , but I'm willing to help test things and extend these changes to unique units.

If no one volunteers, I'll try to make it myself at some point down the line, but I'm too busy right now to learn the modding system, code it up, and test the changes. Please help, I think anyone who enjoys war in this game will love the changes.

 

[Ownsya]

Updated OP with the suggested balance changes for the new mod.

 

[Red Key]

Hi Ownsya,
Thanks for the great Excel spreadsheet and I like the ideas for unit balance! I have used your spreadsheet and some ideas of my own to work on a unit balance mod. I wanted to see what you think of the changes. Some of them are the same as your list. I hope to post the mod on the workshop soon, but need to do more testing.

List of Changes:

1. New rule: Anti-cav class gets +3 strength when defending. Will help them survive a little better against ranged attacks and I think fits thematically. As a consequence, barbarian camps will be slightly harder to clear.
2. Spearman production -10 = 55 (same as your list)
3. Horseman strength -2 = 34 (same as your list but you will notice I didn't give cavalry a bonus against melee. I wanted swordsman to get a minor victory over horseman since they cost more and have less movement.)
4. Pikeman production -10 = 170 (not as much as your list, but with the new defense bonus they are stronger than before)
5. Infantry production -40 = 390 (this makes infantry efficiency better than AT crew. I believe melee class units should have the best cost efficiency because they cost resources (unlike anti-cav) and have less movement than cavalry class.)
6. New unit subclass: Vehicle. The following units are considered part of this subclass: tank, helicopter, mechanized infantry, modern armor, rocket artillery.
7. New unit subclass: Anti-vehicle. The following units are considered part of this subclass: AT crew, modern AT.
8. New rule: Vehicle units have -3 strength if adjacent to an anti-vehicle unit. This operates similar to the Indian Varu or Maori Toa - it is non-cumulative with the GS expansion so multiple adjacent anti-vehicle units would not cause this penalty to go beyond -3. I wanted to add something unique to the AT units and bring down the huge combat advantage mechanized infantry has over modern AT which was higher than any other age. Thematically, I think of it as the threat of bazooka attacks limiting the attack & defense options for the vehicle units.
9. Tank strength -3 = 77 (similar to your list. Without this the tank sticks noticeably out in the Strength vs. Production Cost chart and AT crew doesn't really have an advantage over them.)
10. Mechanized infantry production -50 = 600 (similar reasoning as the infantry production - to make this melee unit have better cost efficiency than other units in the same age.)
11. Modern AT production +20 = 600 (with the new anti-vehicle rule the modern AT effectively has 83 strength since it gives other units in its age -3)
12. New rule: Siege class units get +10 defense against district attacks (city center and encampment will do less damage to them. This change does not impact ranged units). My multiplayer group finds the seige class pretty useless until the later units that have enough range to attack from outside the city's attack range. This will make the early bombard units better.

Here is how the relative strengths table looks after these changes. Note that I added the new +3 defense for anti-cav, but didn't add the new anti-vehicle rule to the table, so the AT crew actually has +3 more strength against tanks, helicopters, etc... than is shown. However, for the modern AT I modeled the new rule by counting its strength as 83 since it will get the +3 bonus against the majority of units it faces. It should be noted though that the "Infantry" unit actually still stalemates with modern AT even though the table shows different and the machine gun would also be better against modern AT than shown.

Spoiler :

Here are the Strength vs Production Cost and Cost-efficiency charts:

Spoiler :

 

[Red Key]

After considering it some more I think I will give light cavalry +3 strength against melee, but not heavy cavalry. This is mostly to balance out the classical era where there is no counter for swordsman in my current changes, and horseman would suffer minor defeats against both swordsman and spearman.

 

[Red Key]

Mod now released. I flip flopped back to giving heavy cavalry +5 strength against pre-gunpowder melee units (warrior & swordsman) so that heavy chariots have some use countering swordsman mainly.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1978408576