Requests for new components (and features)

[ruff_hi]

oh - there is a 'forget' factor. I didn't know that. I thought it was a straight count of all techs ever traded. I imaged we would count UP and display how many techs the AI has ever traded the player and let the player dig into the XML to see if that number is above the AIs threshold.

As you have described it - I think it is anti-BUG as it is too opponent specific. I expect the knowledgeable player (or egg-head!) to work out game mechanics (whip overflow) but not keep track of individual leader stuff like this.

 

[r_rolo1]

I can agree that maybe displaying actual WFYBTA valours might be non-UG ( but comparing with the polls.... not so sure :/), but even a count of the techs traded would help. In fact, why not simply display things as they didn't forget, as a worst case scenario ? Or simply make a tech trade log ( current logs don't make diference if you traded or self researched a tech ), like:

850 BC You had traded Aesthetics for Alphabet with Darius (WFYBTA limit = 10 ) ( showing the LH XML coded limits )

That would help a LOT, and I don't think how could it be non-UG. My self ( and a lot of others, given that I'm not by far very anal compared with a lot of CFC members ) already do that kind of thing by hand ...

 

[entwood]

I would like a little PCT display (somewhere, a clock feature perhaps) that will calculate turn to turn and therefore keeps track of the average commerce/research percent you have...As you play and your pct changes on any given turn, back and forth, from 100%, 90%, 80%, 70%, and sometimes less!...It would be nice to have a presentation of this average which gives an important indication of how you are doing in this department...

 

[Joshua368]

Not going to bother looking through all the pages to see if it was mentioned... is there any way to make the game show the hidden diplo modifiers the AI has? Like a +2 "We just like you" or whatever the AIs all have going on. It would certainly help, not sure how possible it would be though.

 

[EmperorFool]

. . . keeps track of the average commerce/research percent you have.

This would indeed be a nice addition to the graphs window. My concern is that the way Civ4 handles mods saving information to the saved file would cause a slowdown as each turn progressed. However, that may just be me being pessimistic. Storing the information would require little coding out our part, and we already have a way to graph information like this.

It would be un-UG to show the percents for opponents until the end of the game, of course, but it would be neat nonetheless. I had always wondered why Research is the only missing commerce graph. This would be an excellent addition to the DLL as I suspect it would be better to integrate it that way. It would mean less coding on our part as well.

Is there any way to make the game show the hidden diplo modifiers the AI has?

I think the information is available via Python code, but it breaks the UG in BUG: we don't show you any information not already available in the original game. We present it better and alert you when it changes, but we won't show hidden information.

 

[Roland Johansen]

I would like a little PCT display (somewhere, a clock feature perhaps) that will calculate turn to turn and therefore keeps track of the average commerce/research percent you have...As you play and your pct changes on any given turn, back and forth, from 100%, 90%, 80%, 70%, and sometimes less!...It would be nice to have a presentation of this average which gives an important indication of how you are doing in this department...

This would indeed be a nice addition to the graphs window. My concern is that the way Civ4 handles mods saving information to the saved file would cause a slowdown as each turn progressed. However, that may just be me being pessimistic. Storing the information would require little coding out our part, and we already have a way to graph information like this.

It would be un-UG to show the percents for opponents until the end of the game, of course, but it would be neat nonetheless. I had always wondered why Research is the only missing commerce graph. This would be an excellent addition to the DLL as I suspect it would be better to integrate it that way. It would mean less coding on our part as well.

The basic game already has a commerce graph and I doubt the BUG mod has removed that (don't have the game available here). The commerce graph shows the sum of all research, gold, espionage and culture per turn minus the upkeep costs and often is an excellent representative of the research power of a civilisation. It shows a gradual increase even if the civilisation is radically changing it's research slider up and down in order to get more or less gold (for upgrades) and espionage points. It shows the commercial strength of a civilisation which is usually exactly what you want to know. The only bad thing is that culture is a part of it as that slightly blurs the picture.

The research percentage on the other hand is a useless figure. It doesn't tell you anything about the actual research speed of a civilisation. So, the average research percentage is equally useless. I think it's a great improvement that since BTS, the CIV main interface show the actual research expenditure on the main screen as it is the main indication of the actual research speed of a civilisation (next to bulbing with Great Persons).

Note that I don't mind if the BUG mod adds stuff that I deem useless (as long as it doesn't slow down the game). I just wanted to make clear that the research percentage doesn't tell you anything about your research speed and that there already exists a graph that is a good indicator of the research speed of various civilisations.

 

[EmperorFool]

The basic game already has a commerce graph. . . . The commerce graph shows the sum of all research, gold, espionage and culture per turn minus the upkeep costs and often is an excellent representative of the research power of a civilisation.

Are you talking about the GRAPHS tab of the F9 screen? These are the graphs:

• Food
• Production
• Gold
• Culture
• Espionage
• Score
• Power

Is there a separate Commerce graph that I don't know about? (I wouldn't be surprised!)

 

[ruff_hi]

@EF - your 'Gold' is actually GNP and is a blend of the stuff you do with commerce (as RJ says). The game includes a huge number of culture multipliers so if you are running high culture, your GNP graph looks pretty health even if the underlying raw commerce is pretty poor.

 

[Roland Johansen]

@EF - your 'Gold' is actually GNP and is a blend of the stuff you do with commerce (as RJ says). The game includes a huge number of culture multipliers so if you are running high culture, your GNP graph looks pretty health even if the underlying raw commerce is pretty poor.

Yes, that's true. Culture should maybe not be a part of this graph. However, I do think it's a pretty good idea to pool together research, gold and espionage minus upkeep costs. If you take a look at an enemy figure or graph, then you get a good indication of it's research power even if they happen to run 100% gold for a turn to get some additional cash for upgrades. If the figure would only include research points, then it would look as if this empire had a pitiful research that turn and the graph would show large jumps in research expenditure over time which would reduce its clarity.

It would of course also be nice to get separate graphs next to this combined graph, but if you also got these graphs for foreign powers, then that would go against the UG part of BUG (I guess). And getting them only for your own empire is not very useful.

By the way, the original game (BTS 3.17) has named your 'gold' graph 'GNP(gold)'. GNP is a more correct name than gold for the various forms of commerce minus upkeep, so maybe you should change that name back.

 

[EmperorFool]

Okay, so it's quasi-GNP (though it doesn't include production, so it's not really GNP at all), and they added (gold) to make it more confusing. I assumed it was the gold graph which they called GNP to make it sound official.

So basically it's a Commerce graph. Okay, fine. And it's per turn (same as Production graph) whereas the Culture graph (and Espionage? I haven't paid attention to that graph, ever) is cumulative.

Thus I suppose the GNP graph belongs with Production and Food. I would love to rename it Commerce to make it clear that it doesn't include Production (assuming, of course, that I'm right about that).

Linking this thread with the Graphs discussion, that makes the first set of three graphs GNP: Food, Production, Commerce. The second set is Score, Power, Culture, Espionage. I'd even love to separate Espionage since it's so wacky, leaving two 3-in-1 pages of related graphs.

 

[Roland Johansen]

Okay, so it's quasi-GNP (though it doesn't include production, so it's not really GNP at all), and they added (gold) to make it more confusing. I assumed it was the gold graph which they called GNP to make it sound official.

That sounds about right.

Note that in a previous version, the various building multipliers weren't counted which meant that you could have a negative GNP graph while your economy was doing just fine. This has however been fixed.

The split in commerce and production in civ is actually very weird from a real life economical point of view since the values of both aren't linked like in real life.

So basically it's a Commerce graph. Okay, fine. And it's per turn (same as Production graph) whereas the Culture graph (and Espionage? I haven't paid attention to that graph, ever) is cumulative.

Thus I suppose the GNP graph belongs with Production and Food. I would love to rename it Commerce to make it clear that it doesn't include Production (assuming, of course, that I'm right about that).

Linking this thread with the Graphs discussion, that makes the first set of three graphs GNP: Food, Production, Commerce. The second set is Score, Power, Culture, Espionage. I'd even love to separate Espionage since it's so wacky, leaving two 3-in-1 pages of related graphs.

I can imagine that you'd like to call it commerce as that describes it somewhat. But if you name it commerce, then I'd assume (if I didn't know better) that the graph didn't include building modifiers and that maintenance costs weren't subtracted. So the name commerce will lead to incorrect conclusions while a vague name like GNP will not lead to such conclusions and people will have to ask what it represents (or you could maybe use some hover info).

 

[entwood]

Another small question: Is there any way to change the value for the Auto-Save process?, that, by default, saves your game automatically every 4 turns? Is this an INI setting somewhere or does BUG have any interface to do it?

EDIT: Nevermind, I found it in the INI.

; Specify the number of turns between autoSaves. 0 means no autosave. AutoSaveInterval = 4

 

[·Imhotep·]

I still want a "Better Rally point" feature. Take that sluggard ruff and chain him to his PC for 2 days, and it's done!

 

[ruff_hi]

No. No. No. Not doing it. Doing something else. What? You want to know what I am doing? Sharn't tell you. Oh, ok ... sorting thru my bills and other paperwork. And prep for my tax return ... much more important that rally points.

Spoiler :

... and I am pretty sure that the rally points are created by the dll and not via python ... and what constitutes a 'better' rally point anyway? How about some specs!!

 

[EmperorFool]

And what constitutes a 'better' rally point anyway? How about some specs!!

Yeah, no . .. .. .. .. Don't tease us like that!

"I'd like a new feature that adds stuff to the game."​

Sure, I'll get right on that!

 

[·Imhotep·]

What constitutes a better rally point?

• It is visible after hitting a key combination, like it is with the Strategic Layer (or it could be even part of it!)
• It is easier to set and reset than in the default version
• It is much nicer in looks than a simple yellow circle
• It's done by the best coding team ever to tackle a Civ Mod

Imhotep

 

[mystyfly]

I have a small request:

You're talking about improving stuff to more easily acess WFYABTA. What about helping the human with begging?

I'd like to see somewhere how long I've been accumulating "Gift Points", how many turns it is since the last beg and how high the probability is that the AI forgot the last gift.

All of this is acessible to the human by taking notes. Notes one easily loses between civ sessions...


Also I posted in the Bug Report forum. My post seems to have been overlooked (at least no one replied). I'm having issues with the foreign advisor. Started another game since the one I posted the screenie of and encounter the same problem again.


Keep up the good work guys

 

[ruff_hi]

mystyfly - what are the rules for begging - I never know when to try it.

btw ... emotion is back in programing!

 

[mystyfly]

Nice link ruff... I am forcing myself too to use the mouse less and less...

About the rules for begging... Boy you ask questions... I know about a post... by someone... in some thread... in some subforum... So I imagine it'll take some time until I find it.

Summary: For every turn you know an AI it accumulates points. If your request's value is greater than that value it's refused and another counter gets reset (something like IDontWannaGiftAnything). Now if that counter reset, the AI doesn't gift whatsoever. Every turn there is an increasing chance (starting by something like 1% or so) that the AI forgets it gifted anything so it's possible again to get a gift. If you ask unsucessfully, both counters get reset too IIRC. Works the same with demands.

I'll post a link should I find that post...

 

[entwood]

How about a better display of enemy SOD details. Is it not a problem when you try to see what a large enemy SOD has in it's ranks (and the top of the display runs out of room?) You know they have more but you can't really see their whole roster. It would be great if BUG could do something here.