Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire

[Fictionles]

What is the motivitation for building a Civitas Modicum in a city that already has a Civitas? Should building a Civitas expire the Civitas Modicum?

 

[CyberChrist]

@Fictionles:
If only that was possible. Sadly it is not possible in Civ3 to have the presence of specific improvements make other improvments unbuildable (with the exception of the Palace blocking for any Forbidden Palace type wonders).

 

[Luthor_Saxburg]

If only that was possible. Sadly it is not possible in Civ3 to have the presence of specific improvements make other improvments unbuildable (with the exception of the Palace blocking for any Forbidden Palace type wonders).

You can make it unbuildable, but can make it useless (like the plants, where 1 would replace the other).

Boy, I can't wait to see version 1.0 of this Mod out to try it out!

.

 

[CyberChrist]

You can make it unbuildable, but can make it useless

Eh?

(like the plants, where 1 would replace the other).

If you are suggesting that Civitas Modicum and Civitas are both given the "Replaces all improvements with this flag" flag then that wont work, as the wonders that place a Civitas Modicum in all cities would then not only remove all Civitas in all cities, but also make it impossible for them to work as intended (allow construction of Civitas without building the expensive Civitas Modicum first).

Also, the "Replaces all improvements with this flag" flag does not prevent any of the other buildings with this flag from appearing on the build menu.

 

[CJNyfalt]

I have tried this scenario twice and it went to hell on the first turn both times.
The first time I tried to attack Pyrrus and lost both armies, the second time I went defensive and was rewarded for that with a razed city.
I'm ready to give up with it but I want to give it a few more chances. Since the startup time is painfully long I'm asking for some starting strategy help.
So my questions are:
- What is the recommended early tech research order? I want to know especially when I should get the techs at the top of the screen (the 25 turn one with libraries and the two optional ones).
- How do I contain and beat Pyrrus without taking critical losses?
- What is the best use of the two armies?
- Anything else I should know early on?

 

[blitzkrieg80]

Parthian stacks of doom just finalized my game around 60 AD... They about 200 units to throw out into my territory and still had more in their own... I was behind, recently just at the point to begin the Flavian Dynasty tech... I could only conquer Egypt, Illyria, Carthage and the various Greeks and Macedonia... the troop movement is just way too slow, especially if Civ3 is always going to be some stack situation... All I know is that I'm slow =0( So WHO knows what a good setting for the Incursors and Attila are? I hope someone knows, because I can't get there! Arg!

 

[CyberChrist]

Since the startup time is painfully long I'm asking for some starting strategy help.

Save game just after starting scenario and load that to replay from.

What is the recommended early tech research order? I want to know especially when I should get the techs at the top of the screen (the 25 turn one with libraries and the two optional ones).

I head straight for Second Punic War (to get free armies rolling asap) then straight for Latifunda. Depending on my situation at that point I either proceed on regular tech tree or grab Education first (to get 1 more free Legio and Army).

-How do I contain and beat Pyrrus without taking critical losses?
- What is the best use of the two armies?

Load Legio I-IV into the 2 armies, bombard Pyrrhus with the nearby Velites and then send in an army - if you are really nervous about it you can sacrifice a Miles Socious or 2 to get his health down a bit further (I never do this myself though). After that just proceed to take out the remaining army of Pyrrhus using all the offensive units from the nearby cities/area (use them in order of strength: Army, Legio, Miles). Using the Eques for the fast units to reduce time wasted on cleaning up run aways on the next turn seems to work best.

I have never lost more than 2 units on the first turn - which I find acceptable.

 

[Asclepius]

- What is the recommended early tech research order? I want to know especially when I should get the techs at the top of the screen (the 25 turn one with libraries and the two optional ones).

This sort of takes all the fun out of discovering this yourself but it might be useful to new players so here goes:

To stay on target (in terms of the timeline) all techs should be researched in 12 turns (or as close as possible to 12 turns) the only exceptions being Dictator and Age of Augustus but these you should get for free. I'll get to them later.


I would recommend this research order:

1 1st Punic War
2 Civil Engineering
3 Slavery
4 2nd Punic War (build Imperium Scipionis as fast as possible)
5 Praetor (start building the Praetor wonder quickly)
6 Education (build Bibliotheca in Roma and wait for Agrarian Troubles to build more in the largest cities)
7 Latifundia (only build Latifundia in large cities with a temple, or not at all if your economy is sound)
8 Macedonian Wars
9 Marius' reform (upgrade as many Legions as you can afford)
10 Agrarian troubles
** First Civil War to build Lex Agraria and Civitas wonders, try and ensure cities aren't still building improvements as you near the end of Agrarian troubles so no shields are wasted swapping to Civitas which you should try and build in every city.
11 Sulla's Rule (build the two wonders fast!)
12 Triumvirate (build Imperium Caesaris)
** Second Civil War as soon as Imp. Caesaris is finished, swap to Triumvirate Government and start building Dictator Perpetuus
13 Drama Theory (this tech MUST be finished before or ideally on the same turn that Dictator Perpetuus is finished as you will then get the next two techs FREE)
14 Dictator
15 Age of Augustus
16 Julian-Claudian-Flavian Dynasties
** Third Civil War, start building Collosseum
17 Philosophy & Poetry
18 Commerce
etc. » follow the line.... Water Milling can be skipped unless you really need or just like Watermills

If your military conquest goes really well in the early game and your science rate is good then you can squeeze in Drama Theory before Agrarian Troubles which means you must research Philosophy & Poetry whilst building Dictator Perpetuus so as not to waste the two free techs on anything but the two 25 turn techs (Dictator and Age of Augustus)

I haven't mentioned everything you need to build as some are pretty obvious and others depend on resources or certain cities. The Circus Maximus for example, can take a while to build. If you don't have access to slaves in the first 20 turns, demand them as payment from Carthage after your first Punic War This list seems to work for me but if any of the old hacks spot any mistakes or alternatives I'll add them to the list

 

[pinktilapia]

Parthian stacks of doom just finalized my game around 60 AD... They about 200 units to throw out into my territory and still had more in their own... I was behind, recently just at the point to begin the Flavian Dynasty tech... I could only conquer Egypt, Illyria, Carthage and the various Greeks and Macedonia... the troop movement is just way too slow, especially if Civ3 is always going to be some stack situation... All I know is that I'm slow =0( So WHO knows what a good setting for the Incursors and Attila are? I hope someone knows, because I can't get there! Arg!

Well Why not cheating abit for playtesting sake and add yourself a new eastern army. Beside, do you think the forthcoming fast transports and naval shipments of troops (airport) could help addressing an early Parthian agression?

1 1st Punic War
2 Civil Engineering
3 Slavery
4 2nd Punic War (build Imperium Scipionis as fast as possible)
5 Praetor (start building the Praetor wonder quickly)
6 Education (build Bibliotheca in Roma and wait for Agrarian Troubles to build more in the largest cities)
7 Latifundia (only build Latifundia in large cities with a temple, or not at all if your economy is sound)
8 Macedonian Wars
9 Marius' reform (upgrade as many Legions as you can afford)
10 Agrarian troubles
** First Civil War to build Lex Agraria and Civitas wonders, try and ensure cities aren't still building improvements as you near the end of Agrarian troubles so no shields are wasted swapping to Civitas which you should try and build in every city.
11 Sulla's Rule (build the two wonders fast!)
12 Triumvirate (build Imperium Caesaris)
** Second Civil War as soon as Imp. Caesaris is finished, swap to Triumvirate Government and start building Dictator Perpetuus
13 Drama Theory (this tech MUST be finished before or ideally on the same turn that Dictator Perpetuus is finished as you will then get the next two techs FREE)
14 Dictator
15 Age of Augustus
16 Julian-Claudian-Flavian Dynasties
** Third Civil War, start building Collosseum
17 Philosophy & Poetry
18 Commerce

That should fit well in the walkthrough.
Although I had no time up to now, I still hope being able to come out with a patch this week. Let say Friday, tentatively.

Will you ever do civilopedia's for the techs? It will make it easier for the Roman player to know what to conquer at each point.

I am unsure on what you mean here. The pedia for the techs is already complete and give you a summary of what did happen during the equivalent historical period, including conquests...

 

[CJNyfalt]

Thanks for the help, I managed to beat Pyrrus. I still have much to learn however. Did some other mistakes like having my workers(whatever they are named) to build roads instead of other improvements.

 

[Gaias]

And if you are not up to cheating just make a 100 stack of Velites doom and walk over anything that comes your way! With a 5 attack they can walk over anything in the early game, considering that most units on have a 4 defense. Coupled with 2 movement, ignores movement cost of hills and no requirement of support, makes them great killing machines. Oh yeah... did I mention they also have bombard?

Of course to me that seems alittle unbalanced in the early part of the game. I would recommend a reduced attack to 3, and increase their rate of fire to four. They are IMHO, just meant to soften up your enemies in advance of the main force of Legio/Miles Aux forces. Not be able to takeout entire civilizations with real no cost to your empire considering how cheap and fast they are built.

 

[CyberChrist]

And if you are not up to cheating just make a 100 stack of Velites doom and walk over anything that comes your way! With a 5 attack they can walk over anything in the early game

How do you get 100 Velites in the early game? Considering that they cost 1 population each to produce it sounds to me like you are cripling yourself for the later game - if you can even pull it off at all.

 

[Gaias]

The number was ment to be an exaggeration of the point. What I was implying with that statement, was that I found the velites to be too advantageous early in the game. I did however have about 40 of them in about 35 turns, just made all the servus I enslaved join my cities for the pop, and then hurried production. Rome makes a fair amount of gpt early in the game.

 

[CyberChrist]

...just made all the servus I enslaved join my cities for the pop, and then hurried production.

How do you build up your production and growth with no Servus to work the tiles?

I can't imagine that hurrying a lot of units is something your citizens would be very happy about either. Are you keeping up with the ideal 1 advance pr 12 turns? And how far have you gone so far using this approach?

 

[gringoesteban]

Parthian stacks of doom just finalized my game around 60 AD... They about 200 units to throw out into my territory and still had more in their own...

Blitz, assuming you have already knocked out Egypt and Syria, my suggestion on how to handle the Persians is as follows:
1) Fortify two units at the choke point between the Med Sea and the Red Sea, in the northeast corner of modern day Egypt, so that no enemy units can pass through there.
2) Sign a right of passage with the Persians.
3) The Persians will move lots of cavalry units through your territory in modern day Lebanon and Israel. They will basically just wander around.
4) Wait for at least 60 Persian units to be stacked in a single square. Surround that square with your units (one unit per square is fine) so that the Persian units cannot move without declaring war.
5) Bring up a big pile of reinforcements and put them next to the trapped Persian units. (If you've trapped 60 Persian units, you would probably want at least 90 of your own units poised to attack them).
6) Allow the ROP to expire, then demand the Persians withdraw or declare war. They will declare war, but you will have an advantage because it will be your turn and you will be able to wipe out 60+ of their best units immediately.

 

[gringoesteban]

Of course to me that seems alittle unbalanced in the early part of the game. I would recommend a reduced (Velite) attack to 3, and increase their rate of fire to four. They are IMHO, just meant to soften up your enemies in advance of the main force of Legio/Miles Aux forces.

I also feel that the early part of the game is unbalanced (although maybe that's just because I've played through that part of RFRE so many times). I personally prefer the Velite stats from a few RFRE versions back, with A4 rather than today's A5, with a slightly higher shield cost, and not costing ant pop. But this point was debated a while ago, and the majority of people recommended the stats that you see in v0.9.

 

[Fictionles]

Parthian stacks of doom just finalized my game around 60 AD...

Have you tried culture flipping most of their cities? I had pretty good success doing that with Pontus; got them down to 5 cities and set up my armies to attack each of them in succession. Eliminated them in one turn.

I am ignoring Persia in my current game and was able to culture flip most of their cities down to the "Perisan Heartland" ones. I would've invaded if not for the pending German/Scythian crisis I'm now facing.

 

[Gaias]

I also feel that the early part of the game is unbalanced (although maybe that's just because I've played through that part of RFRE so many times). I personally prefer the Velite stats from a few RFRE versions back, with A4 rather than today's A5, with a slightly higher shield cost, and not costing ant pop. But this point was debated a while ago, and the majority of people recommended the stats that you see in v0.9.

Ok, that is good to know. Like everyone else here just throwing around suggestions. They either can be considered or ignored, it doesn't bother me.

This is still one of the greatest mods in playability and FUN here at CivFanantics.

 

[CyberChrist]

I personally prefer the Velite stats from a few RFRE versions back, with A4 rather than today's A5, with a slightly higher shield cost, and not costing ant pop.

A4 seems reasonable to me as well, don't see any reason to change anything else though.

Personally I only rarely use Velites for anything other than bombard and build road - and once I get Ballistaes and Funditors I almost exclusively use Velites for building roads.

 

[pinktilapia]

Thanks Gaias. Be sure all comments given here are appreciated and will be accomodated as best as possible, although they are not always answered.