Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire

[primordial stew]

Be sure to fix the castrum hopilitarium to actually require greek goods in the city radius. In 1.24easy they are available in almost every city, even Roma!


Yeah, civIV is different. Many things are better, but some extremely annoying stuff still happens.. like pikeman kills tank! For a really good show of what civIV can do check out the Fall From Heavan mod(s). Really amazing stuff!

I would like to start the civIV RFRE thread some time soon, but I want to check out Warlords first to see what the Roman scenario is like. The American Revolution scenario has timeline and trigger events in it, which will serve as nice examples. Spartacus would be an example of a simple timeline event, whereas the Trimvirate collapsing into Dictator would occur a number of turns after it was the govt. In RFRE I believe most players stick with Trimvirate for far too long, but such things can be fixed.

 

[blitzkrieg80]

Good find, Stew!

How does Schola going obsolete at Flavian emperors sound? I read that innovation was stale AT LEAST that early... so Mercatus costs 7 instead of 10 to build, but costs 2 maintenance... Schola costs 9 instead of 6 to build, but costs 0 maintenance and goes obsolete during Julio-Claud/Flavian tech... cool?

I like the unit you sent, Monarch, I can use him for a new Illyrian pirate, but Crete/Pirate civ can have woodcutters maybe...

so how does keeping Celts as resource for Celticus buildings sound, but spawn rate is increased to 18? It would make sense that you couldn't get Allied troops too regularly..

-also I am removing the Foederatii I placed at Vindonissa and Colonia Agrippa, because that was suppose to limit the # of allies popping up and also represent historical Foederatii, right Pink? Or did you NOT mean to miss those cities... same for Tomis, Sarmizegethusa, Tibiscum and Poroliscum... HMM, waitaminute, why does Alamannia Superior have Foederatii but they dont? Should I just let them all have the resource so it makes sense and make the spawn rate per 12 turns?

I'm trying to find historical tributes that Rome had to pay and I see Commodus paid Germanic tribes to stay away, so we could have one -100 tribute (or less) happen then and expire early, improvement with instructions in civilopedia... for sure one with Attila, but what else? Alaric and the Visigoths, also maybe 2 parts to Scythia: tribute to Huns, then to Attila? Justinian paid tribute to the Persians... thats 5! and 2 of them won't last long each at the beginning and end... With less research, that should probably make everything challenging enough =o) Sounds fun and flavorful though!

 

[primordial stew]

> How does Schola going obsolete at Flavian emperors sound? I read that innovation was stale AT LEAST that early... so Mercatus costs 7 instead of 10 to build, but costs 2 maintenance... Schola costs 9 instead of 6 to build, but costs 0 maintenance and goes obsolete during Julio-Claud/Flavian tech... cool?

It could be too disruptive to change the early buildings. Instead dump the Bibloteca, so if the player still wants another 50% it will require building the 5gpt one instead.

Wasn't there a tribute to Dacia?

 

[blitzkrieg80]

OK, works better for Mercatus, but Biltioteque would have to be free then? Isn't the problem that without Bibilo. and Academia, so many cities x schola = tons of research?
Tribute to Dacia... Decebalus, I think? ohh... yes !

 

[the_Monarch]

As much as I'd agree with you, Stew, that the schola becoming obsolete doesn't make much sense, the truth is you don't have that many bibliothecas so the difference would be insignificant. Also, if you make the scholas obsolte, no city that doesn't yet have a bibliotheca won't be able to build one but those that do will be able to keep them and the cultural benefits of larger cities.

Also, schola costing no maintenance is also very good early on. As for the mercatus. I'd let it only 1 gpt as most cities had it in reality whereas in game the 2 gpt would mean that the city would have to have at least 6 trade netto diverted to tax for it to make a minor difference. Since we agree the tax should always be somewhere at 50%, that would mean 12 netto trade (without that lost to corruption), that would mean a pretty large city of 16-20trade. Bottom line, 1gpt for mercatrus sounds ok, especially since the Emporiae costs nil.

Stew, you're right, cIV has a much better chance of beeing modded to perfection but the job would be 4 times as hard . And the thing is they haven't yet modded it all that great. Then again the original civ III was very far from this version...

There was a tribute to Dacia , but a minor one during Decebalus' time. I guess you could put one such tribute be prerequisite for Trajan and scrap it quicly afterwards. Or it could be a wonder requirig 100 gpt that would be negated by the Forum Trajani that would also yield 150 gpt (or a "goldmines from Dacia wonder" that would eventually run obsolete) but I don't know how historically would be for a wonder like that to keep it's maintenance even after the Dacian are long gone... Better stick to an improvement then.

 

[blitzkrieg80]

Wait, Monarch, do you agree or disagree with the schola becoming obsolete? Maybe biblioteques could just require civitas (i think it already does)- is there an invisible requirement like level 2 research building in the editor?

 

[Keroro]

Hi guys, I've been lurking on this thread for a few months now, so I thought it was about time to get involved.

With the scientific improvements it might be historically interesting to make one of them require Greek Goods in the city radius, because the Greek cities had a much greater tradition of science than Rome (think Aristotle, Archimedes, Pythagoras, etc.). This would also have the effect of making the Greek cities feel more important to the player, which is no bad thing.

I love RFRE by the way, it's a real (enjoyable) history lesson as well as a damn good game. My last game got saved over , but Hannibal had showed up at the right time in the right place. I don't think you need to make him much more than Defence 30 and +15HP. I know that some experienced players have been able to beat him easy, but a new player would probably be caught by surprise, and probably would lose a couple of cities early on to Big H before he worked out a strategy for beating him. The 1.2 mod felt pretty well balanced at least until the end of the Punic Wars (when my save got wiped).

 

[the_Monarch]

Yes, I agree with the scholas becoming obsolete for all the reasons listed above. Bibliothecas already require civitas indeed and not scholas as I thought they should but it's better this way.

Welcome aboard Keroro, seems we posted in the same time. Not a bad idea about the Greek cities science. But RFRE science is more or less something else thant normal "research". And some cities already have good science incentives/generators like Athens and Syracusae. Sparta was quite backward in inovations and there are a lot of Asian cities that have Greek goods and would make the job even easier later on in the empire, which is something we want to avoid at all costs to prevent the player from becoming bored over a too easy to manage empire.

 

[captain beaver]

Wahoo! Just 5 days gone and already 2 pages of (mostly Blitz ) posts! Too much new ideas to talk about all of them, but they seem fine with me so Blitz !

 

[Keroro]

The Monarch - All very good points. If the idea is to generally make it harder then making the Schola obsolete is the way to go, but I'd be worried that the hit to research would be too high, so maybe make bibliothecas buildable without civitas? I'm thinking about new players again, having a third of your research disappear in a turn could be quite tricky if you weren't ready for it.

 

[the_Monarch]

By the Flavians most cities already have civitas. Pink and Blitz are desperatelly trying to increase research costs but are limited by the maximum 1000 so to make the player lose some money, the obsolete scholas seem the only way. It's the decadence of the empire that calls for it .

 

[blitzkrieg80]

Good, Captain, some are from your scenario, so I'd hope you like 'em! Welcome Keroro- I really like your idea with the Greeks, but we must refine it since we are limited by our current tech buildings... maybe a new tech building since schola goes obsolete? Maybe the Flavians is too early for schola too, even if its more historical? 3rd Century then?

 

[Keroro]

If there is a new research building for the Greeks then it would have to cost a lot to maintain, 5 or 6GPT, require Greek goods in the city radius and should only be buildable in a metropolis with civitas and academia. This would limit the number somewhat, and would ensure that lots of money is paid in maintainance (Thermae - 5, Academia - 5, and the new building - 5 or more).

To limit the amount that get built we could make it that Greek goods + Olives, or Greek goods + Pottery were required in the city radius.

 

[blitzkrieg80]

well right now Pottery and Olives are not a strategic resource and I think it's ok if lots of Greek cities can build it- like you said 5 maintenance should do it... and Acadamia required so -10 Hmm... I'm thinking that the no maintenance Schola will make the early player too powerful money-wise, IS THAT POSSIBLE?, since Mercatus will be back to -1 as supported by Monarch. 45 free supported troops is soo small for realistic conquest... so maybe the extra money is ok? Therefore, Flavian tech should DEF. make schola obsolete, since the early game has such an advantage.. and with our new Greek science building, it's perfect! What's a good Latin name for it? something to do with Hellenism?

 

[primordial stew]

TI'm thinking about new players again, having a third of your research disappear in a turn could be quite tricky if you weren't ready for it.

I can load up an old save game from maybe 400AD and sell all of them, but how does one find what the beaker total is? Do we have to work backward to get a rough number from the turns required and %?

 

[primordial stew]

Syria still has too many hoplites!!! I'm playing on easy and I see 50 of them at the moment, so on hard that would make for ~70 of them. This is after taking 3 cities. The cost needs to be raised from 50 to 70 at least.

Also, the civpedia text should be made clearer for the bellator galatium. The generator is made obsolete by Etruscan Heritage, so none of these guys will fight for Rome, but the text says they can be "bribed".

v1.24easy:
64BC - 3 cities (including Pergamum) taken from Syria so far. Plenty of hoplite spam to deal with. Only 1400 gold saved up, and I wasn't able to buy Pergamum (or any cities at all). Good thing this is on easy!

Still 7 turns till Imperium Pompey. 50 shields is too much, how about 30? Syria conquered them so I wasn't able to buy it and thus have it get civitas during the Agrarian reforms. Only 7/13 production due to corruption.

 

[Keroro]

@ Primordial Stew - Wow, that's a lot of work. It's a pity that the civ3 team didn't use the Alpha Centauri sell improvement script, where you could sell all of a particular improvement in one go.

The beakers of science produced are shown in the Domestic F1 screen, just note how many there are before the sale of the century, then note how many after. I would guess that we're talking about approx. 1/4 of science being lost.

 

[captain beaver]

Hey Blitz, are you planning to add barb camp in every scenario based on my start? If so, we should find name for them such as Britons or Spaniards, etc. And for the one in Bretagne, extreme north-western Gaul, call the units Asterix, Obelix and Getafix just so players will know you can't destroy that camp....

 

[the_Monarch]

Do you guys think there's any way you can make that building worthwile at such a cost (5 gpt?). Maibe if the Academia would go obsolete (it does, doesn't it?)

 

[primordial stew]

>The beakers of science produced are shown in the Domestic F1 screen, just note how many there are before the sale of the century, then note how many after.

Well, that is obvious! Too many late night posts


16BC 1.24easy: Aegyptus has taken over Jerusalem again. This needs to be fixed. They have too many troops still, not hoplites this time, but overall too many.