Ruleset Discussion

[talonschild]

I would personally remove the second half of 3.4 - as long as they already have a high-enough level unit giving them another one shouldn't be a problem.

 

[fluffyflyingpig]

Proposed change:

3.4: Unit Gifting
Gifting a unit with experience needed to promote to Level 4 to teams who have not built the Heroic Epic and cannot currently do so is not allowed. Gifting a unit with experience needed to promote to Level 6 to teams who have not built West Point and cannot currently do so is not allowed.



Hopefully the wording is clearer this way!

 

[talonschild]

I second the proposed change.

 

[Manolo65]

Does the mod actually prohibit logins, or does it just report them? If it only reports them, then the 3-phase method is possible. Or we have the option to keep the 3-phase proposal and revisit the decision on the mod given that the game hasn't actually started.

TBH the reason I wanted the mod was for the BUG stuff. The interface improvements are worth their lines of code in gold.

Speaking for myself and not a CivFanatics rep.

My mod prohibit logins out of turn, or not, admin chosse

 

[fluffyflyingpig]

Manolo, can you please provide the admin account information for the test game going on now so that everyone fully understand what this mod does?

And could you please provide all of the documentation and source code you have for the mod, I don't think we have a very good idea of how this all works.

Thanks! =)

 

[Manolo65]

Manolo, can you please provide the admin account information for the test game going on now so that everyone fully understand what this mod does?

And could you please provide all of the documentation and source code you have for the mod, I don't think we have a very good idea of how this all works.

Thanks! =)

In english I have this

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=11550437&postcount=20


In spanish I can explain you all of you want .and in in my poor englihs too if you give me much time to:

first to understood your questions and for translate my answers uff

 

[fluffyflyingpig]

This is helpful, thanks!

Can you post the apmod.com admin nick/password for the test game?

 

[DNK]

I think I speak for most of Apolyton when I raise serious objections to the role of the admin in this game (though let them correct me if not). It's not a minor concern.

I do not see why the admin should be the sole adjudicator of gameplay issues. It puts a lot of power into the hands of one person, and for a game this large I think that's a recipe for certain disaster. I would prefer to see a more democratic approach for sure, rather than letting someone I've never known settle every dispute that arises single-handedly.

 

[Lord Parkin]

As long as the admin is impartial it shouldn't be a problem. It's more of a recipe for disaster to let democracy rule disputes. Teams involved in a dispute will be far from impartial, and it's all too easy for the process to become a tyranny of the majority. (In other words, the predominant alliance decides the outcome of disputes in their favour most of the time.)

 

[talonschild]

And also causes disputes that they can then settle in their favour. An admin means no team or alliance thereof can act with impunity.

 

[Lord Parkin]

The Spanish mod apparently hides Civstats info:

About the logins logs as civstats, theres is on, but its only accecible for the admin. This is to avoid, as civstats does, to guess hows hows getting its login hours. Also to avoid getting info of who exchanges techs with whom...
I will try to write something for help you

The Civstats FAQ explains fairly well why this is not a good idea:

Q: Isn't it unfair to allow players to see exactly when other players are logging in? Combined with being able to tell when scores increase you can even tell when two players make a trade!

A: My reasoning is this: The information that's available on civstats.com is the same information that someone could get by just staying logged in to the server and watching. They could see when people log in, and when people's score increases. This means that the unemployed guy that does nothing but log in every hour to check up gets an advantage over the players that can only log in once per day to play their turn. I find that by making the information available to everybody it prevents this slight advantage that a more... jobless person might get. You can tell when two players conduct a technology trade because both of their scores go up at the same time. But then again, you can get that exact same information (even more actually) by closely watching the foreign advisor.

You're just empowering the teams that stay logged into the game for longer.

Also, there's a big potential issue here:

* Control of double turn in war.
The turn is set when a player ends turn to war and out of the game. From there the mod checks that each player can only turn into war.
It is forbidden to declare war on other players are online

This could quite easily lead to major problems in a game with a large number of players per team and/or dedicated players, both of which are the case here.

 

[Yuufo]

I think I speak for most of Apolyton when I raise serious objections to the role of the admin in this game (though let them correct me if not). It's not a minor concern.

I do not see why the admin should be the sole adjudicator of gameplay issues. It puts a lot of power into the hands of one person, and for a game this large I think that's a recipe for certain disaster. I would prefer to see a more democratic approach for sure, rather than letting someone I've never known settle every dispute that arises single-handedly.

As long as the admin is impartial it shouldn't be a problem. It's more of a recipe for disaster to let democracy rule disputes. Teams involved in a dispute will be far from impartial, and it's all too easy for the process to become a tyranny of the majority. (In other words, the predominant alliance decides the outcome of disputes in their favour most of the time.)

Maybe a board of 3 referees could be a good compromise?

 

[fluffyflyingpig]

Maybe a board of 3 referees could be a good compromise?

This seems like a good idea in theory, but finding 3 impartial people available and willing to make timely rulings for a game that may last over a year will be hard. Added complexity and delay for relatively little gain.

The last thing we'd want is for one of the referees to disappear for months and hold up the game.


Besides, as discussed and generally agreed to earlier in the thread, if all the teams democratically reach consensus on the resolution of any dispute there is no need for any admin action or rulings at all.

 

[cav scout]

Our game admin has several wise and respected CFC mods/admins to consult if anything tricky should arise. I'm not too worried with the way things are set up now.

 

[Manolo65]

This is helpful, thanks!

Can you post the apmod.com admin nick/password for the test game?

Caledorn is the admin of the game test ..

 

[DaveShack]

You can run both civstats and the website which is connected to the mod. So the uneven information aspect can be addressed that way.

I found something potentially troubling when browsing the other games section of the mod website.
The in-game log is visible to people who are not registered into the game as owning civs, including what techs were researched that turn -- though you don't necessarily know by whom.

 

[Manolo65]

This is ony at non private games

private games its no visible from other people

 

[Sommerswerd]

@ DNK - Without getting involved in the debate over the merits of a single admin vs. a 3 judge panel, I think it is worth reminding everyone that we are still trying to get someone to commit to be a backup admin. That is to say, after asking every Mod and Admin I could think of as well as non Mods who have been admins in past games, we were only able to get one CFC Mod to volunteer for the onerous task. So as a simple practical consideration, 3 judge panel is going to be tough. We dont even have a backup admin yet.

 

[fluffyflyingpig]

This is ony at non private games

private games its no visible from other people

Manolo, please provide login and password information for the current practice game that is ongoing.

Thanks!

 

[Manolo65]

Only players can see the game but a civ of the game can be associated with many web users.

Maybe a player could associate his civ to your web user