S3rgeus
Emperor
Another thing I've been thinking about to do with Threads is that they're very patch-able. Releasing new Threads as part of updates to the mod is a great way to add new content to the player experience relatively cheaply (compared to adding any new systems or designing, implementing, and balancing whole new civilizations). That doesn't affect any of our targets for how many we want to do now, but it's something we can keep in mind for post-release updates (in that far-distant theoretical future), which could be cool.
Yeah, any small differences in the total numbers of available choices for Major Shadow vs Major Light are unlikely to be noticed by players in-game, so as long as there isn't a clear difference (one has double the other) then it should be fine.
I was surprised by Culture and Happiness too. I think we had a lot of references to Gold in the costs previously, so we over-estimated the number of Gold rewards that were being given out. I definitely expected to see more of them.
I like "delay a False Dragon" as the general explanation because it's quite accurate. We'll see if players get enough information about how FDs are spawned to be able to infer how the underlying system works, otherwise we might be better going with something like "reduces False Dragons spawned in/near your territory."
Cool and good point about the Admiral. I remember we discussed this very briefly many eons ago. I almost added an Admiral choice into one of the above Threads, but then thought of this!
Yes, definitely!
Homage to the High King
A isn't intended to be to do with any talents of the High King himself. He's the High King, so inevitably there will be portraits of him done by a variety of famous artists. If people like the High King, then there will be more demands for said portraits. You're selling forgeries to make some money. I could see counterfeit heirlooms working too, but I don't think they're much different. (Both are profiting from fakes that are valuable due to the High King's popularity.)
Clarification for B should make it clearer that it's goods the "High King civ" are famous for. (Alum is all the rage in the lands of the High King, hence increasing demand as people try to emulate them.) How about:
Choice B: Encourage merchants to trade goods the High King's nation is famous for far and wide (+GP points (<Great Merchant equivalent>))
Crowns and Swords
The leader of each civ is still king/queen of their own land (even if that's currently a Province under the High King), and would therefore have a crown. It could definitely be generalized to be available at all times, but I think reference to the High King flavor adds some value too. It is available any time from High King onwards, so not just while the High King is in power. (Since a crown fit for a High King could be made at any time when people know what a High King is.)
For B, I can see either changing it to Minor +Shadow and leaving it how it is (goldsmith's talents being wasted to make trinkets to sell is bad, but not very evil) or go with forcing him and full +Shadow. Which do you prefer?
Play at Power
I see what you mean here. It's probably worth ballparking some numbers for what each Alignment amount represents throughout the game though, since this seems to come up on a lot of Threads.
I've been thinking that in the Ancient Era, Minor +Alignment would be ~10 points in that direction. +Alignment would be ~40-60 and Major would be ~80-120. (So a single major decision will go a long way toward pulling you out of the Neutral tier.)
We discussed that Alignment rewards would scale over the course of the game, becoming more extreme as time goes on. This means the Minor/Normal/Major will get farther apart as the game goes on. I'm thinking by the end of the game (Era of the Dragon, basically) Minor will be ~40-60, Normal ~150-180, and Major ~400-450. So by this point, Neutral players will be hard pressed to pick any non-Minor Alignment choices if they want to remain truly Neutral. (Making being Neutral a deliberate balancing act seems to be an idea we like?)
Depending on how we feel about the above, I think having choices like C could be good.
King of All
I definitely agree that we don't want High King-only Threads in general to be better, the intention was to experiment with just this one. I think even if we do have one powerful one like this, any other High King-only ones should remain normally-powered.
I considered having all of the options be costed big-payoff ones, but it seemed a bit depressing from the player point of view, like being penalized for doing well, since the Thread is clearly targeted at the High King. Even when they're net positive, all of the player experience stuff comes into play again, and magnified because the player is accustomed to plentiful cost-free choices already.
Mellowing it is certainly possible. We'd likely need to remove the free technology from B, since the others are basically yield payouts that I figured players might find comparable to receiving a free technology.
I'm unsure. I think it could be really awesome to discover this Thread as the High King. It's the kind of depth that I keep being really impressed by in Dragon Age - that there is a specific, scripted piece of content that rewards the player for the exact niche situation they've managed to get themselves into. (High King is less niche than a lot of BioWare's crazy combinations of voice overs for bringing different companions to various things, but still, we're just two people.) The other side of that is it's clearly very powerful, and the High King is already riskily powerful.
Seafaring Progeny
Done - removed Major from C.
Endless Tides
For this and the next one I'd originally made them for the Trolloc Wars only and then later realized that they were also applicable to the Last Battle. I just forgot there were Shadow players in the latter case (pretty big oversight). I'll lock this and the next one (Delayed Harvest) to Light side for the Last Battle and come up with some Shadow-side only Threads below!
Delayed Harvest
Done
Glowbulbs and Fire
Done
Across the Sea
For all of them, you're allowing the guild in question to represent your civilization in a venture to find new riches. Whichever one gets chosen will be ramping up activity and recruitment to carry out the voyage, which means they uplift more people in the process.
Tree Poachers
I definitely think Happiness will work. But before we sign this one off, what if the Stedding declares war on you? Given the penalties we discussed for capturing Stedding previously, the player may not want to capture them.
Looks good, the only thing I'm unsure of is -Science for D. Would we want to allow costs that require the player to sacrifice civilian units? This seems like an ideal situation for something like:
Choice D: These Ogier can elevate some of our craftsmen to masters of their trade (Sacrifice a worker, Gain a <Great Engineer equivalent>)
Great
Cautionary Tale
Done
Flourishing Inventions
Done
Good point for these! GP points are accrued on a per-city basis. I've gone back through all of these new ones and added a city specification to them in the master list. Wherever there was a city involved in the Thread, I've specified that city, otherwise I went for the capital.
Flourishing Arts
There probably should be equivalents for Great Musicians and Great Artists (or this one should be Artists and another Writers). It just seemed like a lot of Culture Threads when Culture was already out in the lead.
Talented Artisan
The intention is that he's already someone who's working in your city (he's one of the pop that's already there). By pulling him out and making him a GP, he's no longer doing his normal citizen stuff.
I've added all of the above to the master list with any components of them still under discussion highlighted in red. (Hopefully I caught everything that we're still discussing.)
A few more quick numbers about Policies and Philosophies.
# Threads requiring each Policy/Philosophy:
Authority: 2
Oppression: 0
Liberation: 0
Fear: 3
Tolerance: 2
# Threads requiring you not have adopted Policy/Philosophy X:
Authority: 0
Oppression: 1
Liberation: 0
Fear: 1
Tolerance: 0
I don't think we want too many of the latter restriction, but we could do with more for all of the former. I think we'll want more Fear vs Tolerance than the Philosophy ones, since players will adopt the Policies earlier than the Philosophies, so there's more time for one-Policy-only Threads to appear.
Right now, I'm going to shoot for having 3 of each for each Philosophy and 6 of each for Fear and Tolerance.
So, some more new Threads are in order!
Plague at the Tower
Flavor: A plague has broken out in the city around the White Tower. They have requested aid.
Choice A: This plague represents an opportunity for our scholars to do some questionable medical research (+Science, +Shadow)
Choice B: Rather than let the Tower's trade lapse as merchants flee the city, reroute their trade through your lands in the interim (+Gold, Minor +Light)
Choice C: Send stores of food and supplies to help the sick (+Tower Influence, +Light)
Choice D: We can leverage this situation to our advantage, forcing the Tower to send more Sisters to us (-Tower Influence, Gain Aes Sedai unit, Major +Shadow)
Restriction: must be Authority
So I've put -Tower Influence as the penalty for D. That's not one we've used elsewhere, but I figured an Authority civ is much more likely to find that penalty relevant, and gaining an Aes Sedai isn't as big a bonus as, say, a GP or a technology.
Learned Spark
Flavor: Visitors from foreign lands have been suggesting that more people may be able to channel than those whose abilities manifest visibly.
Choice A: These rumors are clearly ridiculous, publicly reassure your people they are untrue (+Faith, +Shadow)
Choice B: These new channelers are clearly dangerous as well, we must research new ways to find them (+Science, Minor +Shadow)
Choice C: This information will cause rioting and wanton murder, people can be distracted by a public fair, at least for a time (+Culture, +Light)
Restriction: must be Oppression
Channeling Secret
Flavor: One of your advisers has admitted to you that she is a channeler. She has been hiding this secret for many years and now submits herself to your judgement.
Choice A: Hang her (+Happiness, +Shadow)
Choice B: This embarrassment must be kept a secret, reassign her to a remote part of your empire (Minor +Faith)
Choice C: We can study her to find ways to ferret out other channelers in hiding (+Science, +Shadow)
Choice D: This secret will remain between you and her (Major +Light)
Restriction: must be Oppression
Enslaved Channelers
Flavor: A group of slavers have been capturing channelers among your people to sell on to the highest bidder.
Choice A: Channelers are not sold, they are earned, bestowed as servants by the crown. Seize their profits and outlaw this practice. (+Gold, +Light)
Choice B: The people seem to approve of them. Carry on. (+Faith, +Shadow)
Choice C: This kind of operation is the exclusive mandate of the crown. Reclaim the enslaved channelers as your own. (Gain Wilder? unit, Major +Shadow)
Restriction: must be Oppression
It is hard to come up with Light choices for Oppression civs.
The Best of Us
Flavor: An extremely powerful female channeler has arisen from among your people. She has been Healing the sick and needy in <city you control>.
Choice A: She represents the best of us, appoint her to public office (-Food in <city>, Gain <channeling> Governor in <city>, +Light)
Choice B: Spread tales of her valor across the land (+Faith, +Light)
Choice C: She doesn't turn away anyone? There are some smugglers in need of medical care. (+Gold, Minor +Shadow)
Choice D: Her strength must be directed to defend our lands (Gain Wilder unit, +Shadow)
Restriction: Must be Liberation
The Tainted Half
Flavor: The Taint that corrupts Saidin is a sickness in need of a cure. Male channelers in your land seek help in halting their eventual madness.
Choice A: The Taint cannot be Cleansed, but these men's lives can be made more bearable (Minor +Happiness, Minor +Light)
Choice B: Dedicate your best scholars to the task, the Taint must be removed (+Science, +Light)
Choice C: A cure? the Taint allows these men to see their true selves. It should not be destroyed. (+Faith, +Shadow)
Restriction: must be Liberation, Saidin cannot have been Cleansed
Tower Demand
Flavor: The White Tower is demanding one of your government officials, a powerful female channeler, be sent to the Tower to train. They offer to send a Sister as an adviser in exchange.
Choice A: We are a sovereign nation and do not bend to the Tower. Announce your refusal to your people. (+Faith, +Light)
Choice B: She has been indispensable at home, but now there is an opportunity to change the Tower from within. (Sacrifice a <channeling> Governor, Major +Tower Influence, Gain Aes Sedai unit, Minor +Light)
Choice C: This is an affront. Impose tariffs on any trade with the Tower (+Gold, Minor +Shadow)
Choice D: The Tower should see how vulnerable non-channeler officials are. Have a foreign official assassinated and hold them up as an example of why yours can defend themselves. (Major +Shadow)
Restriction: must be Liberation, must have met the Tower
Liberation was far and away the easiest of these to come up with. Now we have some policy-related ones:
Herbs and Power
Flavor: A Wisdom in one of your villages near <city> is being harassed, accused of using the One Power to Heal people instead of herbs.
Choice A: Brand her an enemy of the state (+Faith, +Shadow)
Choice B: Send known true Wisdoms to investigate the people's claims (+Food in <city>, +Light)
Choice C: Send samples of <luxury resource you do not have that is plant-like> to this Wisdom to see if she can correctly identify it (Gain <resource>, Minor +Light)
Restriction: must be Fear
Of Dragons and Men
Flavor: The existence of False Dragons is whipping your people into a frenzy. They seek to kill any they find.
Choice A: Stoke the flames of this hatred (-FD points, +Shadow)
Choice B: These people would be better off in a disciplined environment, like your military (Gain a military unit, Minor +Light)
Choice C: Denounce the False Dragon, elevating you in the eyes of your people (+Faith, +Light)
Restriction: must be Fear, there must be a living False Dragon you are aware of
Witches Abroad
Flavor: One of the witches from the White Tower has been sighted near <city you own>.
Choice A: The city must remain vigilant in its defenses! (Gain <walls equivalent building> in <city>, Minor +Light)
Choice B: Arrange an expedition to hunt her down and bring her to justice (+Faith, +Shadow)
Choice C: People need not fear the witches. Have one of your scribes release a memoir of your own past dealings where you bested the Tower's representatives. (+Culture, Minor +Shadow)
Choice D: Publicly demand that the Tower stay out of your affairs (Minor +Happiness, +Light)
Restriction: must be Fear, must have a city without <walls equivalent>
Advisers Unwell
Flavor: A dangerous sickness has been spreading in your capital and several of your advisers have been bedridden for weeks.
Choice A: Appeal to the Tower to Heal your scholarly adviser (+Science, Minor +Light)
Choice B: Your financial adviser claims to know a Wilder who can Heal him. Have her brought to the capital. (+Gold, +Light)
Choice C: Kidnap a Wilder and threaten to send her to the Tower if she doesn't heal your cultural adviser. (+Culture, +Shadow)
Choice D: A group of Wisdoms could Heal your quartermaster if offered tax incentives (+Food in capital, Minor +Shadow)
Restriction: must be Tolerance, must have met the Tower
Ends of Madness
Flavor: Some men in the later stages of madness from the Taint on Saidin have been nonviolent and seek to live out their final days in peace.
Choice A: They can live them out in peace, but abroad, where any madness episodes will disrupt someone else's empire, not ours (Minor +Shadow)
Choice B: Our people will understand if we show leniency (+Light)
Choice C: These men are beyond help, and must be killed now (+Shadow)
Restriction: must be Tolerance, Saidin must not have been Cleansed
Alignment-reward-only choices? Do we want to have any Threads like this?
Enhanced Power
Flavor: A cache of powerful items from the Age of Legends has been discovered buried near <city you own>. They enhance the channeling abilities of any channeler who wields them.
Choice A: This newfound strength could help our craftsmen in securing structures (+Production in <city>, Minor +Light)
Choice B: No one else may have them, we must uncover the secrets of making more of these items (Minor +Science, +Shadow)
Choice C: We can claim these items as a part of the heritage of our people (+Culture, +Shadow)
Choice D: The channelers of <city> should be able to use them for what they wish (Receive <channeling-related building> in <city>, +Light)
Restriction: must be Tolerance, must have a city that doesn't have <building>
Guild Channelers
Flavor: Some guilds in your capital have expressed interest in hiring some channelers to advise their luminaries in their work.
Choice A: Approve the scholar's guild's request (+GP points (Great Scientist equivalent>))
Choice B: Direct the craftsmen to hire a channeler who will spy on them for you (+GP points (<Great Engineer equivalent>), +Shadow)
Choice C: Direct the musicians to hire some channelers who have fallen on hard times (+GP points (<Great Musician equivalent>), +Light)
Restriction: must be Tolerance
I also said above that there should be some Shadow-Last-Battle ones since two of my suggestions from last time only work for the Light:
An Opportunity to Help
Flavor: Forces controlled by <fellow Shadow civilization> have been pinned down fighting the Light.
Choice A: I suppose we should save them from their own incompetence. We'll have to hang onto the soldiers though. (Gain a military unit, +Light)
Choice B: Use this failure to demonstrate <fellow Shadow civilization>'s foolishness to the Chosen or Shaidar Haran, currying favor for yourself. (Gain a Trolloc unit, +Shadow)
Choice C: This is your chance to undermine <fellow Shadow civilization> in truth. Feed the enemy intelligence about their positioning and formations. (Major +Shadow)
Restriction: You must be declared for the Shadow during the Last Battle, there must be more than one civilization declared for the Shadow
Though some of the +Shadow options seem to help the Light, the actions themselves are very representative of Shadow-y actions in-universe. The Shadow are well known for making life harder for one another.
What is that Smell?
Flavor: Your men have been complaining that Trollocs make smelly and unpredictable allies.
Choice A: The Trollocs are here to stay, they need to learn to like it (Gain a Trolloc unit, +Shadow)
Choice B: Split your forces so that the Shadowspawn are deployed separately from your human soldiers (+Happiness, Minor +Light)
Choice C: Perhaps those who complain should lead the next charge against the enemy (Major +Shadow)
Restriction: You must be declared for the Shadow during the Last Battle
And for everybody:
Ogier Warfare
Flavor: The Ogier are on the verge of completing a Stump that would see them enter into the Last Battle as combatants.
Choice A: Those fools are likely to side against the Great Lord, disrupt the Stump and ensure a consensus is never reached (+Shadow)
Choice B: The Ogier have been peaceful for millennia, that should not change now. Encourage the Stump to remain out of the fighting, they can help against the Shadow in other ways. (+Culture, Major +Light)
Choice C: We have some tacticians who believe Ogier could be formidable foes if given properly sized axes. They will be instrumental in holding back the Shadow. (Gain an Ogier unit, Minor +Light)
Choice D: We can offer the Ogier protection, but only if they refuse to support either side of the war. (Minor +Influence with all Stedding)
Restriction: The Last Battle must have started, there must be at least one Stedding left alive that you have met
This Thread may not work at all. I remember we discussed something of how the Stedding choose sides during the LB, but I'm not sure what we decided. Decisions there may make some of the above choices not make sense.
We could rectify that, of course, but I could also see us ending up with more Major Light options and being fine with that.
Yeah, any small differences in the total numbers of available choices for Major Shadow vs Major Light are unlikely to be noticed by players in-game, so as long as there isn't a clear difference (one has double the other) then it should be fine.
I can say that i'm pretty surprised to see Culture come up so frequently. It feels like the Culture bonuses were often last-minute or shrug-worthy additions. Still, I guess I add up. The prevalence of happiness and science is also somewhat surprising. The lack of gold addition is definitely surprising.
I was surprised by Culture and Happiness too. I think we had a lot of references to Gold in the costs previously, so we over-estimated the number of Gold rewards that were being given out. I definitely expected to see more of them.
Yeah, FD points is weird. Weird enough that it may be worth excluding them. As far as how we'd represent them to the player... I don't know. Would we be really vague ('makes a False Dragon less likely to appear') or more specific ('delays a FD by X turns'). Differentiating between minor, normal and major also seems like it would be difficult.
I like "delay a False Dragon" as the general explanation because it's quite accurate. We'll see if players get enough information about how FDs are spawned to be able to infer how the underlying system works, otherwise we might be better going with something like "reduces False Dragons spawned in/near your territory."
Yeah, all the GP stuff will obviously be tentative. I will say, though, that it does seem that we may be unlikely to include the admiral as a true GP, though.
Cool and good point about the Admiral. I remember we discussed this very briefly many eons ago. I almost added an Admiral choice into one of the above Threads, but then thought of this!
definitely agree.
OOH, before I forget - another thing we could add - resources (luxury or strategic). I think we have exactly one of those, already.
Yes, definitely!
eh, A seems a little cheesy. Forgeries of HK portraits? It's not like the HK is a famous artist. How exactly are they "forgeries"? The notion also seems a little anachronistic. Maybe it should be selling counterfeit heirlooms or things like that. Still cheesy, but a bit more believable.
I feel somewhat similarly about the flavor of B. Goods the HK is famous for? That feels odd to me. Maybe it needs some clarification.
C is fine.
Homage to the High King
A isn't intended to be to do with any talents of the High King himself. He's the High King, so inevitably there will be portraits of him done by a variety of famous artists. If people like the High King, then there will be more demands for said portraits. You're selling forgeries to make some money. I could see counterfeit heirlooms working too, but I don't think they're much different. (Both are profiting from fakes that are valuable due to the High King's popularity.)
Clarification for B should make it clearer that it's goods the "High King civ" are famous for. (Alum is all the rage in the lands of the High King, hence increasing demand as people try to emulate them.) How about:
Choice B: Encourage merchants to trade goods the High King's nation is famous for far and wide (+GP points (<Great Merchant equivalent>))
This one definitely seems to me that you need to *be* the high king. Why are they crowning you if you aren't the high king? If you aren't the HK, then this one seems like it could take place in any era, and have no mention of the HK.
B should probably specify that they are being forced to do so or something, otherwise I don't understand the +Shadow element.
Crowns and Swords
The leader of each civ is still king/queen of their own land (even if that's currently a Province under the High King), and would therefore have a crown. It could definitely be generalized to be available at all times, but I think reference to the High King flavor adds some value too. It is available any time from High King onwards, so not just while the High King is in power. (Since a crown fit for a High King could be made at any time when people know what a High King is.)
For B, I can see either changing it to Minor +Shadow and leaving it how it is (goldsmith's talents being wasted to make trinkets to sell is bad, but not very evil) or go with forcing him and full +Shadow. Which do you prefer?
I like these, but I'm not sure about C. I know it's the neutral choice, but it does seem like it sticks out a bit, not having any yield bonus aside from the alignment. It can be fine, but I doubt people will take this. The difference between +S and M+S is likely not worth the loss of gold.
Play at Power
I see what you mean here. It's probably worth ballparking some numbers for what each Alignment amount represents throughout the game though, since this seems to come up on a lot of Threads.
I've been thinking that in the Ancient Era, Minor +Alignment would be ~10 points in that direction. +Alignment would be ~40-60 and Major would be ~80-120. (So a single major decision will go a long way toward pulling you out of the Neutral tier.)
We discussed that Alignment rewards would scale over the course of the game, becoming more extreme as time goes on. This means the Minor/Normal/Major will get farther apart as the game goes on. I'm thinking by the end of the game (Era of the Dragon, basically) Minor will be ~40-60, Normal ~150-180, and Major ~400-450. So by this point, Neutral players will be hard pressed to pick any non-Minor Alignment choices if they want to remain truly Neutral. (Making being Neutral a deliberate balancing act seems to be an idea we like?)
Depending on how we feel about the above, I think having choices like C could be good.
I worry that this is too powerful. I'm all for having some HK-only Threads, but should they necessarily be *better*? It seems like we should be careful providing extra bonuses for being the HK - we might be best off just trying to balance th e"normal" ones, without worrying about Threads.
However, I *do* think it could make sense to have these all be big, but Costed like big ones are supposed to be - only for all of the chocies, instead of one. High payoff, high risk/cost.
Within that, they seem fine. My overall inclination is to mellow it out a bit, though.
King of All
I definitely agree that we don't want High King-only Threads in general to be better, the intention was to experiment with just this one. I think even if we do have one powerful one like this, any other High King-only ones should remain normally-powered.
I considered having all of the options be costed big-payoff ones, but it seemed a bit depressing from the player point of view, like being penalized for doing well, since the Thread is clearly targeted at the High King. Even when they're net positive, all of the player experience stuff comes into play again, and magnified because the player is accustomed to plentiful cost-free choices already.
Mellowing it is certainly possible. We'd likely need to remove the free technology from B, since the others are basically yield payouts that I figured players might find comparable to receiving a free technology.
I'm unsure. I think it could be really awesome to discover this Thread as the High King. It's the kind of depth that I keep being really impressed by in Dragon Age - that there is a specific, scripted piece of content that rewards the player for the exact niche situation they've managed to get themselves into. (High King is less niche than a lot of BioWare's crazy combinations of voice overs for bringing different companions to various things, but still, we're just two people.) The other side of that is it's clearly very powerful, and the High King is already riskily powerful.
Good! Not sure I quite get the Major+Light element for C, though (as opposed to regular Light).
Seafaring Progeny
Done - removed Major from C.
I'd eliminate the Creator reference, unless you want it to only apply to Light side in the LB(and if so, should specify such).
Like it, though.
Endless Tides
For this and the next one I'd originally made them for the Trolloc Wars only and then later realized that they were also applicable to the Last Battle. I just forgot there were Shadow players in the latter case (pretty big oversight). I'll lock this and the next one (Delayed Harvest) to Light side for the Last Battle and come up with some Shadow-side only Threads below!
Like it, but on C, probably should say something like "lure the shadowspawn" instead of "telling" them.
Delayed Harvest
Done
great
Glowbulbs and Fire
Done
I like this one mechanically, but don't quite "get" the flavor. The.... artists... will be the crew of your ships, and we'll get a Great Artist out of it? Maybe I'm not quite getting it. I think we either need to clarify it, or else totally reflavor this. GP points should be about "discovering" great talent or speeding up their generation somehow.
Across the Sea
For all of them, you're allowing the guild in question to represent your civilization in a venture to find new riches. Whichever one gets chosen will be ramping up activity and recruitment to carry out the voyage, which means they uplift more people in the process.
-Influence isn't on the list of acceptable penalties, and I think that's a wise move. Making a stedding angry is definitely not going to be a big penalty for a lot of civs. I think this needs to be something more generalizable - -happiness seems right to me. Or minor.
Tree Poachers
I definitely think Happiness will work. But before we sign this one off, what if the Stedding declares war on you? Given the penalties we discussed for capturing Stedding previously, the player may not want to capture them.
very glad you remembered stedding. I had thought of that and promptly forgotten it. Maybe we should have another? Something like:
Ogier Stonemasons
Flavor: A group of renown Ogier Stonemasons have arrived in your capitol. They offer their services.
Choice A: Honor them with a brief festival and let them freely return to their stedding. (+Culture, Minor +Light)
Choice B: They can be put to work for the highest bidder (+Gold, +Shadow)
Choice C: Start a collaborative project with <stedding>, building a network of acqueducts between your lands (Minor +Influence with <stedding>, +Food, Minor +Light)
Choice D: These Ogier should stay and construct great works, and should be assisted by the learned men of your city (-Science, Gain a <Great Engineer equivalent>)
Restriction: Must have discovered a stedding on the same continent.
Looks good, the only thing I'm unsure of is -Science for D. Would we want to allow costs that require the player to sacrifice civilian units? This seems like an ideal situation for something like:
Choice D: These Ogier can elevate some of our craftsmen to masters of their trade (Sacrifice a worker, Gain a <Great Engineer equivalent>)
The Longing
Flavor: A group of Ogier have lost their stedding, and have arrived at your palace, apparently suffering greatly due to the Longing.
Choice A: These Ogier have much they could teach us about learned pursuits. They must stay and teach your scholars. (Minor +Culture, Minor +Science, +Shadow)
Choice B: They will die if they do not find a stedding. Send your scouts to find their home. (Sacrifice X strength of units, Major +Happiness, +Light)
Choice C: Surely these Ogier can teach your masons of their crafts before they leave. (+Production in Capitol, Minor +Shadow)
Choice D: We cannot find their home, but certainly they will be at peace in <stedding> (+Influence with <stedding>, Minor +Light)
Restriction: Obsoletes with Era of Freedom. Must have met a stedding
Great
This is good, providing we're ok with -FD points being there (which we probably are).
Re: D.... I don't see really how convincing people the Taint isn't so bad is aMajor Shadow action. I'd rather see something like:
Choice D: People who are afraid are people who are easily controlled. Spread tales of the horrors of this False Dragon, and use the resulting chaos as an excuse to crack down on dissidents (Major +Shadow).
Cautionary Tale
Done
Good.
Flourishing Inventions
Done
Question about these GP point bonus ones. They need to apply to cities capable of generating points for that GP, right? If not, those GP points will sit there, never turning into an actual GP How do we determine which cities get the GP points?
Good point for these! GP points are accrued on a per-city basis. I've gone back through all of these new ones and added a city specification to them in the master list. Wherever there was a city involved in the Thread, I've specified that city, otherwise I went for the capital.
ok. looks fine. should there be a version for Great Musicians?
Flourishing Arts
There probably should be equivalents for Great Musicians and Great Artists (or this one should be Artists and another Writers). It just seemed like a lot of Culture Threads when Culture was already out in the lead.
I don't quite get why - Pop in Capital makes sense for the flavor of A. Otherwise, looks good.
Talented Artisan
The intention is that he's already someone who's working in your city (he's one of the pop that's already there). By pulling him out and making him a GP, he's no longer doing his normal citizen stuff.
I've added all of the above to the master list with any components of them still under discussion highlighted in red. (Hopefully I caught everything that we're still discussing.)
A few more quick numbers about Policies and Philosophies.
# Threads requiring each Policy/Philosophy:
Authority: 2
Oppression: 0
Liberation: 0
Fear: 3
Tolerance: 2
# Threads requiring you not have adopted Policy/Philosophy X:
Authority: 0
Oppression: 1
Liberation: 0
Fear: 1
Tolerance: 0
I don't think we want too many of the latter restriction, but we could do with more for all of the former. I think we'll want more Fear vs Tolerance than the Philosophy ones, since players will adopt the Policies earlier than the Philosophies, so there's more time for one-Policy-only Threads to appear.
Right now, I'm going to shoot for having 3 of each for each Philosophy and 6 of each for Fear and Tolerance.
So, some more new Threads are in order!
Plague at the Tower
Flavor: A plague has broken out in the city around the White Tower. They have requested aid.
Choice A: This plague represents an opportunity for our scholars to do some questionable medical research (+Science, +Shadow)
Choice B: Rather than let the Tower's trade lapse as merchants flee the city, reroute their trade through your lands in the interim (+Gold, Minor +Light)
Choice C: Send stores of food and supplies to help the sick (+Tower Influence, +Light)
Choice D: We can leverage this situation to our advantage, forcing the Tower to send more Sisters to us (-Tower Influence, Gain Aes Sedai unit, Major +Shadow)
Restriction: must be Authority
So I've put -Tower Influence as the penalty for D. That's not one we've used elsewhere, but I figured an Authority civ is much more likely to find that penalty relevant, and gaining an Aes Sedai isn't as big a bonus as, say, a GP or a technology.
Learned Spark
Flavor: Visitors from foreign lands have been suggesting that more people may be able to channel than those whose abilities manifest visibly.
Choice A: These rumors are clearly ridiculous, publicly reassure your people they are untrue (+Faith, +Shadow)
Choice B: These new channelers are clearly dangerous as well, we must research new ways to find them (+Science, Minor +Shadow)
Choice C: This information will cause rioting and wanton murder, people can be distracted by a public fair, at least for a time (+Culture, +Light)
Restriction: must be Oppression
Channeling Secret
Flavor: One of your advisers has admitted to you that she is a channeler. She has been hiding this secret for many years and now submits herself to your judgement.
Choice A: Hang her (+Happiness, +Shadow)
Choice B: This embarrassment must be kept a secret, reassign her to a remote part of your empire (Minor +Faith)
Choice C: We can study her to find ways to ferret out other channelers in hiding (+Science, +Shadow)
Choice D: This secret will remain between you and her (Major +Light)
Restriction: must be Oppression
Enslaved Channelers
Flavor: A group of slavers have been capturing channelers among your people to sell on to the highest bidder.
Choice A: Channelers are not sold, they are earned, bestowed as servants by the crown. Seize their profits and outlaw this practice. (+Gold, +Light)
Choice B: The people seem to approve of them. Carry on. (+Faith, +Shadow)
Choice C: This kind of operation is the exclusive mandate of the crown. Reclaim the enslaved channelers as your own. (Gain Wilder? unit, Major +Shadow)
Restriction: must be Oppression
It is hard to come up with Light choices for Oppression civs.
The Best of Us
Flavor: An extremely powerful female channeler has arisen from among your people. She has been Healing the sick and needy in <city you control>.
Choice A: She represents the best of us, appoint her to public office (-Food in <city>, Gain <channeling> Governor in <city>, +Light)
Choice B: Spread tales of her valor across the land (+Faith, +Light)
Choice C: She doesn't turn away anyone? There are some smugglers in need of medical care. (+Gold, Minor +Shadow)
Choice D: Her strength must be directed to defend our lands (Gain Wilder unit, +Shadow)
Restriction: Must be Liberation
The Tainted Half
Flavor: The Taint that corrupts Saidin is a sickness in need of a cure. Male channelers in your land seek help in halting their eventual madness.
Choice A: The Taint cannot be Cleansed, but these men's lives can be made more bearable (Minor +Happiness, Minor +Light)
Choice B: Dedicate your best scholars to the task, the Taint must be removed (+Science, +Light)
Choice C: A cure? the Taint allows these men to see their true selves. It should not be destroyed. (+Faith, +Shadow)
Restriction: must be Liberation, Saidin cannot have been Cleansed
Tower Demand
Flavor: The White Tower is demanding one of your government officials, a powerful female channeler, be sent to the Tower to train. They offer to send a Sister as an adviser in exchange.
Choice A: We are a sovereign nation and do not bend to the Tower. Announce your refusal to your people. (+Faith, +Light)
Choice B: She has been indispensable at home, but now there is an opportunity to change the Tower from within. (Sacrifice a <channeling> Governor, Major +Tower Influence, Gain Aes Sedai unit, Minor +Light)
Choice C: This is an affront. Impose tariffs on any trade with the Tower (+Gold, Minor +Shadow)
Choice D: The Tower should see how vulnerable non-channeler officials are. Have a foreign official assassinated and hold them up as an example of why yours can defend themselves. (Major +Shadow)
Restriction: must be Liberation, must have met the Tower
Liberation was far and away the easiest of these to come up with. Now we have some policy-related ones:
Herbs and Power
Flavor: A Wisdom in one of your villages near <city> is being harassed, accused of using the One Power to Heal people instead of herbs.
Choice A: Brand her an enemy of the state (+Faith, +Shadow)
Choice B: Send known true Wisdoms to investigate the people's claims (+Food in <city>, +Light)
Choice C: Send samples of <luxury resource you do not have that is plant-like> to this Wisdom to see if she can correctly identify it (Gain <resource>, Minor +Light)
Restriction: must be Fear
Of Dragons and Men
Flavor: The existence of False Dragons is whipping your people into a frenzy. They seek to kill any they find.
Choice A: Stoke the flames of this hatred (-FD points, +Shadow)
Choice B: These people would be better off in a disciplined environment, like your military (Gain a military unit, Minor +Light)
Choice C: Denounce the False Dragon, elevating you in the eyes of your people (+Faith, +Light)
Restriction: must be Fear, there must be a living False Dragon you are aware of
Witches Abroad
Flavor: One of the witches from the White Tower has been sighted near <city you own>.
Choice A: The city must remain vigilant in its defenses! (Gain <walls equivalent building> in <city>, Minor +Light)
Choice B: Arrange an expedition to hunt her down and bring her to justice (+Faith, +Shadow)
Choice C: People need not fear the witches. Have one of your scribes release a memoir of your own past dealings where you bested the Tower's representatives. (+Culture, Minor +Shadow)
Choice D: Publicly demand that the Tower stay out of your affairs (Minor +Happiness, +Light)
Restriction: must be Fear, must have a city without <walls equivalent>
Advisers Unwell
Flavor: A dangerous sickness has been spreading in your capital and several of your advisers have been bedridden for weeks.
Choice A: Appeal to the Tower to Heal your scholarly adviser (+Science, Minor +Light)
Choice B: Your financial adviser claims to know a Wilder who can Heal him. Have her brought to the capital. (+Gold, +Light)
Choice C: Kidnap a Wilder and threaten to send her to the Tower if she doesn't heal your cultural adviser. (+Culture, +Shadow)
Choice D: A group of Wisdoms could Heal your quartermaster if offered tax incentives (+Food in capital, Minor +Shadow)
Restriction: must be Tolerance, must have met the Tower
Ends of Madness
Flavor: Some men in the later stages of madness from the Taint on Saidin have been nonviolent and seek to live out their final days in peace.
Choice A: They can live them out in peace, but abroad, where any madness episodes will disrupt someone else's empire, not ours (Minor +Shadow)
Choice B: Our people will understand if we show leniency (+Light)
Choice C: These men are beyond help, and must be killed now (+Shadow)
Restriction: must be Tolerance, Saidin must not have been Cleansed
Alignment-reward-only choices? Do we want to have any Threads like this?
Enhanced Power
Flavor: A cache of powerful items from the Age of Legends has been discovered buried near <city you own>. They enhance the channeling abilities of any channeler who wields them.
Choice A: This newfound strength could help our craftsmen in securing structures (+Production in <city>, Minor +Light)
Choice B: No one else may have them, we must uncover the secrets of making more of these items (Minor +Science, +Shadow)
Choice C: We can claim these items as a part of the heritage of our people (+Culture, +Shadow)
Choice D: The channelers of <city> should be able to use them for what they wish (Receive <channeling-related building> in <city>, +Light)
Restriction: must be Tolerance, must have a city that doesn't have <building>
Guild Channelers
Flavor: Some guilds in your capital have expressed interest in hiring some channelers to advise their luminaries in their work.
Choice A: Approve the scholar's guild's request (+GP points (Great Scientist equivalent>))
Choice B: Direct the craftsmen to hire a channeler who will spy on them for you (+GP points (<Great Engineer equivalent>), +Shadow)
Choice C: Direct the musicians to hire some channelers who have fallen on hard times (+GP points (<Great Musician equivalent>), +Light)
Restriction: must be Tolerance
I also said above that there should be some Shadow-Last-Battle ones since two of my suggestions from last time only work for the Light:
An Opportunity to Help
Flavor: Forces controlled by <fellow Shadow civilization> have been pinned down fighting the Light.
Choice A: I suppose we should save them from their own incompetence. We'll have to hang onto the soldiers though. (Gain a military unit, +Light)
Choice B: Use this failure to demonstrate <fellow Shadow civilization>'s foolishness to the Chosen or Shaidar Haran, currying favor for yourself. (Gain a Trolloc unit, +Shadow)
Choice C: This is your chance to undermine <fellow Shadow civilization> in truth. Feed the enemy intelligence about their positioning and formations. (Major +Shadow)
Restriction: You must be declared for the Shadow during the Last Battle, there must be more than one civilization declared for the Shadow
Though some of the +Shadow options seem to help the Light, the actions themselves are very representative of Shadow-y actions in-universe. The Shadow are well known for making life harder for one another.
What is that Smell?
Flavor: Your men have been complaining that Trollocs make smelly and unpredictable allies.
Choice A: The Trollocs are here to stay, they need to learn to like it (Gain a Trolloc unit, +Shadow)
Choice B: Split your forces so that the Shadowspawn are deployed separately from your human soldiers (+Happiness, Minor +Light)
Choice C: Perhaps those who complain should lead the next charge against the enemy (Major +Shadow)
Restriction: You must be declared for the Shadow during the Last Battle
And for everybody:
Ogier Warfare
Flavor: The Ogier are on the verge of completing a Stump that would see them enter into the Last Battle as combatants.
Choice A: Those fools are likely to side against the Great Lord, disrupt the Stump and ensure a consensus is never reached (+Shadow)
Choice B: The Ogier have been peaceful for millennia, that should not change now. Encourage the Stump to remain out of the fighting, they can help against the Shadow in other ways. (+Culture, Major +Light)
Choice C: We have some tacticians who believe Ogier could be formidable foes if given properly sized axes. They will be instrumental in holding back the Shadow. (Gain an Ogier unit, Minor +Light)
Choice D: We can offer the Ogier protection, but only if they refuse to support either side of the war. (Minor +Influence with all Stedding)
Restriction: The Last Battle must have started, there must be at least one Stedding left alive that you have met
This Thread may not work at all. I remember we discussed something of how the Stedding choose sides during the LB, but I'm not sure what we decided. Decisions there may make some of the above choices not make sense.