Savebreaking Changes. Mapmakers/modmodders update your scenarios/modmods for SVN 11132+.

raxo2222 · Feb 13, 2020

Currently we are doing savebreaking changes on github branch.
For example we are removing options that are hidden, and maybe sorting them into logical groups.

@Thunderbrd
Hidden and off:
GAMEOPTION_AGGRESSIVE_AI - damages AI
GAMEOPTION_ONE_CITY_CHALLENGE - mod is too full of stuff for this option
GAMEOPTION_NEW_RANDOM_SEED - causes problems with debugging
GAMEOPTION_LOCK_MODS - ?
GAMEOPTION_NO_GOODY_HUTS - ?
GAMEOPTION_RUTHLESS_AI - damages AI
GAMEOPTION_NO_FUTURE - ?
GAMEOPTION_STRENGTH_IN_NUMBERS - WIP
GAMEOPTION_SCALE_CITY_LIMITS - ?
GAMEOPTION_LS612_TRAITS - ?
GAMEOPTION_HEART_OF_WAR - WIP
GAMEOPTION_BATTLEWORN - WIP
GAMEOPTION_UPRANGE - WIP
GAMEOPTION_EQUIPMENT - WIP
GAMEOPTION_MAXIMUM_POPULATION - ?
GAMEOPTION_ONGOING_TRAINING - WIP
GAMEOPTION_NIGHTMARE_MODE - was changed to be normal handicap, removed in savebreaking branch
GAMEOPTION_OUTBREAKS_AND_AFFLICTIONS - WIP

Those options are hidden and enabled for various reasons (It seems like shouldn't be optional).
GAMEOPTION_MOUNTAINS - can build mountain mines, removed in savebreaking branch (now always active here)
GAMEOPTION_ASSIMILATION - allows assimilating other continental cultures - removed in savebreaking branch (now always active here)
GAMEOPTION_ECOLOGICAL_ANIMALS - few animal units need this option - removed in savebreaking branch (now always active here)

=============================================================
We are renaming tags to match ingame name - changes aren't in master branch
Tags are renamed in scenarios included with mod - they will work.

Eras now start with C2C prefix internally.
Internal name of Prehistoric/Ancient/Atomic era is now same as display name.
LABOR civicoption is now named Workforce internally.

Two mapcategories were renamed:
MAPCATEGORY_SPACE -> MAPCATEGORY_CISLUNAR
MAPCATEGORY_MILKYWAY -> MAPCATEGORY_MILKY_WAY

Spoiler Complete list of Civic tag renames :

Spoiler Complete list of Religion tag renames :

Spoiler Complete list of Tech tag renames :

Spoiler Complete list of Route tag renames :

Spoiler Complete list of Specialist tag renames :

Spoiler Complete list of Bonus tag renames (Map resource renames break scenarios) :

Spoiler Complete list of Improvement tag renames :

Spoiler Complete list of Build tag renames :

Spoiler Complete list of Feature tag renames - this breaks scenarios :

Spoiler Complete list of Terrain tag renames - this breaks scenarios :

Mapmakers, after you finish updating maps change "Version=11" to "Version=12" in your scenarios.
This was done to prevent starting incompatible scenarios without updating, as tags were renamed.

Toffer90 · Feb 13, 2020

I'm wondering if we should remove GAMEOPTION_LS612_TRAITS
Isn't this alternative trait set utterly outdated, does anyone use them?

Thunderbrd · Feb 13, 2020

This list has survived a fairly recent audit where removal was considered last time we broke saves. I'll comment on each later, as mentioned.

raxo2222 · Feb 13, 2020

Toffer90 said:
I'm wondering if we should remove GAMEOPTION_LS612_TRAITS
Isn't this alternative trait set utterly outdated, does anyone use them?

I feel like BuildingProductionModifierType should be used on more buildings when it comes to traits (regular ones and from that set).

Thunderbrd · Feb 13, 2020

raxo2222 said:
I feel like BuildingProductionModifierType should be used on more buildings when it comes to traits (regular ones and from that set).

Consider that the old tag for this was on the buildings and units and now it's on the traits. The ones on buildings and units no longer function and should eventually be moved to the traits themselves. We won't have to for the Complex traits. At some point we could then remove those tags on buildings and units entirely and would save us a lot of memory in doing so.

Thunderbrd · Feb 13, 2020

Toffer90 said:
I'm wondering if we should remove GAMEOPTION_LS612_TRAITS
Isn't this alternative trait set utterly outdated, does anyone use them?

I... I don't really want to kill his work on things and some folks still like his trait definitions I think and know they are available if you go out of your way to set them. Maybe eventually, this would be the case. I don't know if we'd have consensus on this or not but the only reason its not visible is because it being available was too confusing for some folks.

raxo2222 · Feb 13, 2020

Thunderbrd said:
Consider that the old tag for this was on the buildings and units and now it's on the traits. The ones on buildings and units no longer function and should eventually be moved to the traits themselves. We won't have to for the Complex traits. At some point we could then remove those tags on buildings and units entirely and would save us a lot of memory in doing so.

I mean it was already removed from building/unit infos. These weren't moved to traits though.
It is used in various trait xml files.

So we should remove iBuildingProductionModifier from trait infos too?

Thunderbrd · Feb 13, 2020

raxo2222 said:
I mean it was already removed from building/unit infos. These weren't moved to traits though.

They should have been moved to the traits rather than being removed outright from building and unit infos until those had been properly transferred over. If you have record of them, then we could still recapture what they used to be so we can put them onto the core and ls612 trait definitions.

And no, we shouldn't be removing those production modifiers from the traits. Obviously, they are very different between the complex traits and the rest and those modifiers are very 'live' and active in the game.

Have we actually completely removed the tags from the code in the buildings and units? Just removing them from xml is not quite enough to save the memory we're hoping to save as all units and buildings are given some mem allocation just for having the tag defined in the code.

raxo2222 · Feb 13, 2020

Thunderbrd said:
They should have been moved to the traits rather than being removed outright from building and unit infos until those had been properly transferred over. If you have record of them, then we could still recapture what they used to be so we can put them onto the core and ls612 trait definitions.

And no, we shouldn't be removing those production modifiers from the traits. Obviously, they are very different between the complex traits and the rest and those modifiers are very 'live' and active in the game.

Have we actually completely removed the tags from the code in the buildings and units? Just removing them from xml is not quite enough to save the memory we're hoping to save as all units and buildings are given some mem allocation just for having the tag defined in the code.

You can see in Github logs where they were removed, and yes those tags (ProductionTrait) were cleared out from code and schema.

Thunderbrd · Feb 13, 2020

raxo2222 said:
You can see in Github logs where they were removed, and yes those tags (ProductionTrait) were cleared out from code and schema.

Hmm... when was that done? Huh. Cool.

raxo2222 · Feb 13, 2020

Thunderbrd said:
Hmm... when was that done? Huh. Cool.

It was done 11 days ago so before V40.1 release.

sunrisereader · Feb 14, 2020

If savebreaking changes are being made could a option for player only revolutions be added. I like the added challenge this option gives but the AI's are not good at handling it a player only version would be a nice way to play a harder game.

raxo2222 · Feb 14, 2020

sunrisereader said:
If savebreaking changes are being made could a option for player only revolutions be added. I like the added challenge this option gives but the AI's are not good at handling it a player only version would be a nice way to play a harder game.

I think this one could be done without breaking saves, but it would end up as option override for Revolutions, just like Size Matters Uncut.

@Thunderbrd is there way to make revolutions have much smaller or no effect on AI?

Toffer90 · Feb 14, 2020

Difficult as revolutions consist of so much spaghetti code and different entry points and so on that there is hard to find a a simple way to simply exlude AI's from that spaghetti.

Dancing Hoskuld · Feb 14, 2020

raxo2222 said:
GAMEOPTION_ECOLOGICAL_ANIMALS - few animal units need this option - removed in savebreaking branch (now always active here)

Actually all animals were intended to use this. It was about balancing the spawn file based of map size. There would be fewer animals on smaller maps eg all the wild canine units would be represented by just one on small maps. The buildings and units of the extra canine types would not even show up in the pedia since their XML would not be loaded. It was about reducing the load in the game. Unfortunately the way Civ is written all the graphics would still have been loaded as they are loaded by the exe before the XML is read.

JosEPh_II · Feb 14, 2020

Thunderbrd said:
I... I don't really want to kill his work on things and some folks still like his trait definitions I think and know they are available if you go out of your way to set them. Maybe eventually, this would be the case. I don't know if we'd have consensus on this or not but the only reason its not visible is because it being available was too confusing for some folks.

How much work would it be to make ls612's traits an Option again? Instead of hidden in the Modules? This is what I would prefer.

But I would rather see it as a modmod than removed completely.

We have modders now that have No history of ls612's work or his help on the mod. So their understanding of this particular set of Traits is limited at best.

Personal view is that Traits overall have become too complex. There are a few players like me that don't relish having every aspect of the Mod to be as complex as possible. Every well made game has aspects of itself that are simple to use and understand. This is core to making any game Good to Great.
^^^^^
(Yes I know, we of course have Options too for this purpose.)

Thunderbrd · Feb 14, 2020

raxo2222 said:
I think this one could be done without breaking saves, but it would end up as option override for Revolutions, just like Size Matters Uncut.

@Thunderbrd is there way to make revolutions have much smaller or no effect on AI?

Toffer90 said:
Difficult as revolutions consist of so much spaghetti code and different entry points and so on that there is hard to find a a simple way to simply exlude AI's from that spaghetti.

I was going to answer as Toffer did, but usually there is a way to disable for entire players. Surely rev disables itself for barbs and maybe that's an easy enough place to follow and use as a pinch point for all non-human players if the option is on? I don't know without looking deeply into it.

Thunderbrd · Feb 14, 2020

JosEPh_II said:
How much work would it be to make ls612's traits an Option again? Instead of hidden in the Modules? This is what I would prefer.

It can simply be made visible again. I'd like to just change the tooltip to better explain that it is not compatible with Complex Traits and like Complex Traits would change the entire nature of the traits definitions when selected. Also anything that tries to sell it as superior, since I'm sure players can make up their own minds on that.

SO had asked it to be removed due to its inclusion being confusing. I wonder if we could urge him to reconsider for the sake of the legacy of ls612's commitment to improving the mod as much as he could while he was here.

JosEPh_II · Feb 14, 2020

Thunderbrd said:
SO had asked it to be removed due to its inclusion being confusing. I wonder if we could urge him to reconsider for the sake of the legacy of ls612's commitment to improving the mod as much as he could while he was here.

At the very least then, to accommodate SO, is to make it a modmod. Then it's not in the Options nor in the Modules. But to outright remove from mod, that's a bit unfair imhpo. Then again I'm Not the Author of this mod either. But just 1 voice for preserving some of the past efforts put into the mod over the course of it's evolution.

On the question raised about making an Option for Rev being only Player affecting and not hinder AI. IF this could Ever Be Possible ( :please:

) my stance against REV would change significantly.

It's what I argued with the Rev team about it killing strong AI opponents and being an actual player crutch to achieve an easy victory way back in 2007 and 2008. And is what made phunghus so upset with me back then. Also why I asked and begged Zapara not to make it mandatory play but rather an Option In RoM 1.03 and beyond. Basically the way it's been ever since as Options go.

The coding for Rev went thru many hands way back then. And is why koshling called it spaghetti code in the 1st place. Too many chefs in the Rev kitchen and all trying to cook it in their own vision and style.

JosEPh_II · Feb 14, 2020

raxo2222 said:
Currently we are doing savebreaking changes on github branch.
For example we are removing options that are hidden, and maybe sorting them into logical groups.

@Thunderbrd
Hidden and off:
GAMEOPTION_AGGRESSIVE_AI - damages AI
GAMEOPTION_ONE_CITY_CHALLENGE - mod is too full of stuff for this option
GAMEOPTION_NEW_RANDOM_SEED - causes problems with debugging
GAMEOPTION_LOCK_MODS - ?
GAMEOPTION_NO_GOODY_HUTS - ?
GAMEOPTION_RUTHLESS_AI - damages AI
GAMEOPTION_NO_FUTURE - ?
GAMEOPTION_STRENGTH_IN_NUMBERS - WIP
GAMEOPTION_SCALE_CITY_LIMITS - ?
GAMEOPTION_LS612_TRAITS - ?
GAMEOPTION_HEART_OF_WAR - WIP
GAMEOPTION_BATTLEWORN - WIP
GAMEOPTION_UPRANGE - WIP
GAMEOPTION_EQUIPMENT - WIP
GAMEOPTION_MAXIMUM_POPULATION - ?
GAMEOPTION_ONGOING_TRAINING - WIP
GAMEOPTION_NIGHTMARE_MODE - was changed to be normal handicap, removed in savebreaking branch
GAMEOPTION_OUTBREAKS_AND_AFFLICTIONS - WIP

Those options are hidden and enabled for various reasons (It seems like shouldn't be optional).
GAMEOPTION_MOUNTAINS - can build mountain mines, removed in savebreaking branch (now always active here)
GAMEOPTION_ASSIMILATION - allows assimilating other continental cultures - removed in savebreaking branch (now always active here)
GAMEOPTION_ECOLOGICAL_ANIMALS - few animal units need this option - removed in savebreaking branch (now always active here)

=============================================================
We are renaming tags to match ingame name in another branch.

Eras now start with C2C prefix internally, Internal name of Prehistoric/Ancient/Atomic era is now same as display name.
Labor civic option is now named Workforce.

Spoiler Complete list of Civic tag renames :

CIVIC_HEREDITARY_RULE -> CIVIC_MONARCHY
CIVIC_FASCIST -> CIVIC_TOTALITARIANISM
CIVIC_NOOCRACY -> CIVIC_GESTALT_MIND
CIVIC_INTERGALACTIC_EMPIRE -> CIVIC_UNIVERSAL_EMPIRE
CIVIC_CITYSTATES -> CIVIC_CITY_STATES
CIVIC_FEDERAL -> CIVIC_FEDERALISM
CIVIC_MARTIALLAW -> CIVIC_MARTIAL_LAW
CIVIC_MACHINERULE -> CIVIC_MACHINE_RULE
CIVIC_ENGINEERED_POPULATION -> CIVIC_SOCIETAL_MOLDING
CIVIC_PROGRAMMED_MORALITY -> CIVIC_PHRONESIS
CIVIC_OLIGARCHY -> CIVIC_JUNTA
CIVIC_SENATE -> CIVIC_LEGISLATURE
CIVIC_SEPERATION_OF_POWERS -> CIVIC_SEPARATION_OF_POWER
CIVIC_TRIBALWARFARE -> CIVIC_TRIBAL_WARFARE
CIVIC_CONSCRIPTION1 -> CIVIC_CONSCRIPTION
CIVIC_FUEDALISM -> CIVIC_VASSAL_LEVIES
CIVIC_VOLUNTEER_ARMY -> CIVIC_VOLUNTARY
CIVIC_UNMANNED_WARFARE -> CIVIC_ROBOTIC
CIVIC_CLONING -> CIVIC_CLONED
CIVIC_OMNIIMPERIALISM -> CIVIC_STARFARING
CIVIC_DIVINE_RULE -> CIVIC_DIVINE_CULT
CIVIC_INTOLERANT -> CIVIC_INQUISITORIAL
CIVIC_SECULAR -> CIVIC_SECULARISM
CIVIC_ATHEIST -> CIVIC_ANTIRELIGION
CIVIC_SYNCRETISM -> CIVIC_NEO_SYNCRETISM
CIVIC_COSMIC -> CIVIC_COSMIC_ENLIGHTENING
CIVIC_DIVINITY -> CIVIC_APOTHEOSIS
CIVIC_LIBERAL -> CIVIC_EGALITARIAN
CIVIC_CORPORNATION -> CIVIC_CORPOR_NATION
CIVIC_BIOCASTE -> CIVIC_BIOLOGICAL_CASTES
CIVIC_LAISSEZ_FAIRE -> CIVIC_FREE_MARKET
CIVIC_CORPORATIST -> CIVIC_CORPORATISM
CIVIC_KEYNESIAN -> CIVIC_REGULATED
CIVIC_ENVIRONMENTALISM -> CIVIC_GREEN
CIVIC_POST_SCARCITY2 -> CIVIC_POST_SCARCITY
CIVIC_PAN_DIMENSIONAL -> CIVIC_PANDIMENSIONAL
CIVIC_PRIVATE -> CIVIC_PHILANTHROPIC
CIVIC_CORPORATE -> CIVIC_PRIVATIZED
CIVIC_PARADISE -> CIVIC_ECO_FRIENDLY
CIVIC_ABUNDANT -> CIVIC_CORNUCOPIA
CIVIC_UTILITY_MAXIMIZATION -> CIVIC_EUDAIMONIA
CIVIC_NO_CURRENCY -> CIVIC_CURRENCY_LESS
CIVIC_BANKNOTE -> CIVIC_CERTIFIED
CIVIC_FIAT_CURRENCY -> CIVIC_FIAT_MONEY
CIVIC_COMMUNITY -> CIVIC_COMMUNAL
CIVIC_PROFESSIONAL -> CIVIC_SPECIALIZED
CIVIC_ORGANIZEDLABOR -> CIVIC_CAPITALIST
CIVIC_SOCIALISM -> CIVIC_COLLECTIVIST
CIVIC_POST_SCARCITY -> CIVIC_AUTOMATED
CIVIC_MILITARY_TRADITION -> CIVIC_MARTIAL
CIVIC_RELIGIOUS_TRAINING -> CIVIC_RELIGIOUS
CIVIC_CORPORATE_EDUCATION -> CIVIC_CORPORATE
CIVIC_COMPULSORY_EDUCATION -> CIVIC_COMPULSORY
CIVIC_E_EDUCATION -> CIVIC_ONLINE
CIVIC_RAPID_EDUCATION -> CIVIC_FAST
CIVIC_INSTANT_EDUCATION -> CIVIC_INSTANT
CIVIC_UNIVERSAL_KNOWLEDGE -> CIVIC_OMNISCIENCE
CIVIC_NO_SPEAK -> CIVIC_NONVERBAL
CIVIC_NATIVE_SPEAK -> CIVIC_NATIVE_LANGUAGE
CIVIC_TRADE_SPEAK -> CIVIC_TRADE_LANGUAGE
CIVIC_INTERPRETER_SPEAK -> CIVIC_INTERPRETERS
CIVIC_EDUCATION_SPEAK -> CIVIC_CODIFIED
CIVIC_UNIVERSAL_SPEAK -> CIVIC_UNIVERSAL_TRANSLATOR
CIVIC_TELEPATHIC_COMMUNICATION -> CIVIC_TELEPATHIC
CIVIC_XENO_SPEAK -> CIVIC_XENOSEMIOTIC
CIVIC_NOTRASH -> CIVIC_GARBAGE_ANYWHERE
CIVIC_BURN_TRASH -> CIVIC_BURN_GARBAGE
CIVIC_SEA_TRASH -> CIVIC_WASTE_TO_SEA
CIVIC_EXPORT_TRASH -> CIVIC_WASTE_EXPORTATION
CIVIC_IMPORT_TRASH -> CIVIC_WASTE_IMPORTATION
CIVIC_ENERGY_TRASH -> CIVIC_WASTE_TO_ENERGY
CIVIC_RECYCLE -> CIVIC_RECYCLED
CIVIC_SPACE_TRASH -> CIVIC_OFF_PLANET_DUMPING
CIVIC_ATOMIZATION -> CIVIC_ATOMIZED
CIVIC_DEMATERIALIZATION -> CIVIC_DEMATERIALIZED
CIVIC_NOBORDERS -> CIVIC_BORDERLESS
CIVIC_SECURE_BORDERS -> CIVIC_SECURED_BORDERS
CIVIC_DIGITAL_CITIZENSHIP -> CIVIC_VIRTUAL_CITIZENSHIP
CIVIC_NOFARM -> CIVIC_HUNTER_GATHERING
CIVIC_FARM_SUBSISTANCE -> CIVIC_SMALLHOLDING
CIVIC_FARM_GUILDS -> CIVIC_AGRICULTURAL_GUILDS
CIVIC_FARM_PRIVATIZED -> CIVIC_PRIVATE_OWNED
CIVIC_FARM_SUBDIDIZED -> CIVIC_INCENTIVIZED
CIVIC_FARM_CORPORATE -> CIVIC_CORPORATE_OWNED
CIVIC_FARM_STATE -> CIVIC_STATE_OWNED
CIVIC_FARM_GREEN -> CIVIC_ORGANIC_FARMING
CIVIC_FARM_ALGAE -> CIVIC_LAB_GROWN_FOOD
CIVIC_FARM_ATOM -> CIVIC_NUTRIENT_REPLICATION

raxo2222 said:
Labor civic option is now named Workforce.

Why the change from Labor to Workforce?
Why the change for Fascist to Totalitarianism?
Why Atheist to Antireligion?
And so many more in that list! Egads but what is going on??!! Are we now getting to be Politically correct in naming? And every change is an actually longer name. Using more characters than needed. Stop this madness Please!

EDIT: So far neither of my 2 ongoing games have been broken by Git changes, FYI.
Also It still takes 15 to 20 minutes to compile the FinalRelease DLL version though.

Savebreaking Changes. Mapmakers/modmodders update your scenarios/modmods for SVN 11132+.

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