Scientific Method

[Ryuk]

Do you research Scientific Method early?
Scientific Method obsoletes all your monasteries which gives 10% scientific research bonus. This could mean taking one more turn to research new techs.

On the other hand, it is a pre-requisite for Communism which could let you run the State Property civic which saves you a lot of maintenance cost.

I also notice that most of the AI players are willing to trade Scientific Method once they've got it. For me, I tend to delay researching it until I am really running short of gold.

 

[Dirk1302]

Reasonably early , usually after chemistry. I hate losing the GL and the monasteries i haven't build but biology and communism are just too important for my style of playing (FE/SE with workshops).

 

[Sisiutil]

Switching to Free Religion (with its +10% research per city boost), Free Speech (for the commerce boost) and Representation (+3 research per specialist of any type) helps compensate for the loss of the monasteries and may even surpass what they were giving you. Same with settling the GS from being first to Physics in your science city, and the additional commerce boost from Printing Press.

Nevertheless, I often hold off on SM for a while, because it also obsoletes the Great Library. I'll often research it to one turn of completion, then research other techs until one of the AIs also research it. Then I finish it off and grab Physics for the GS and soon after, if I haven't already, I'll make the above civics changes.

 

[Ryuk]

Yes I always switch to Representation whenever I can.

I don't always switch to Free Religion immediately, especially if I have Spiral Minaret (which I always try to build) and my religion is widespread, keeping a state religion could earn lots of gold per turn if it is a popular one.

Scientific Method does have its advantages because it reveals the location of the oil fields, but combustion and industrialism takes quite a while to research.

 

[shadow2k]

I think it probably depends on your style of play. I'm normally at war, or gearing up for it at that stage. So I go for Factories + Coal Plants + Infantry, Rails for so many reasons, and Facism for Rushmore + Police State.

 

[Validator]

Switching to Free Religion (with its +10% research per city boost), Free Speech (for the commerce boost) and Representation (+3 research per specialist of any type) helps compensate for the loss of the monasteries and may even surpass what they were giving you. Same with settling the GS from being first to Physics in your science city, and the additional commerce boost from Printing Press.

The thing is that most of the items you mentioned (Free Speech, Free Religion, Printing Press and Representation) don't require Scientific Method. So if you delay SM you can have all of them, and the 10% from monasteries and GL's free scientists. The only item SM provides to increase science is the free GS from Physics, but that's only for the first to research it.

I normally keep an eye on what the AIs are researching and if they are somewhat slow in researching SM I'll go for it and try for the Physics GS. But in most of my games it seems at least one of the AIs goes for it early, in which case I'll delay it as long as possible. Of course the number of monasteries I have in my top science cities and whether or not I have GL play a big role in the decision when to research it.

 

[Sisiutil]

The thing is that most of the items you mentioned (Free Speech, Free Religion, Printing Press and Representation) don't require Scientific Method. So if you delay SM you can have all of them, and the 10% from monasteries and GL's free scientists.

Quite true, but I find that this is usually around the point in the game where all these things become available and I'm ready and it's advantageous to make the civics changes.

 

[Canadian Bacon]

For me, I tend not to build many monasteries (usually only one or so for each religion I have, so I can build missionaries without organized religion). Thus, the research loss of Sci Method is minimal, while the techs it leads to (particularly Biology) are very useful.

 

[svv]

Consider the possibility of having the event of your discovery of Scientific Method being the trigger for you moving your capital/science city from an old location (your original first city, with the Great Library, maybe with a bunch of farms, science specialists and monestaries) to a new location (more central, cottaged up) where you've built (or will build) Oxford.

You could then transform your original capital into a GP farm (maybe you've already built national epic and/or globe theatre there) or a religion/money city (if you were spiritual and discovered early religions in your original capital, you'd want to load up on merchant specialists and build wall street).

Or, as I did in one recent game, change your capital to your military/production city (mine had a few hills and ended up having iron. I was building military units there all along, and heroic epic helped).

 

[Bradlius]

I normally keep an eye on what the AIs are researching...

You can do that? Man, I am going to feel like a fool for asking, but how do I find out what the AI civs are researching?

 

[shadow2k]

You can do that? Man, I am going to feel like a fool for asking, but how do I find out what the AI civs are researching?

Not while they're researching it, no...unless they're your vassal. He just means he'll check the trade screen every turn to see what techs they are discovering. Another thing you can do is offer to trade certain techs to them. If they're offering price is going down, you know they're researching it themselves (unless someone else discovered it, which also lowers the price).

 

[Validator]

shadow2k is right, I should have written "have researched" instead of "are researching". That can easily be checked through the Foreign Advisor-Technologies screen.

In case you don't know you can check what techs an AI is researching by using a spy, but that doesn't really apply here since that is after SciMethod.

 

[Godel]

SM is a prereq for Biology, which is a powerful tech. Bio increases the power of pop rushing, drafting, production (more food = more mines worked), specialist economies (more food = more specialists).

SM obsoletes the GL but once bio are in you can usually hire at least an extra scientist in most cities of your empire, and more specialists in your NE city. Delaying Biology for the sake of the GL is not worth it in most circumstances.

And others have already mentioned access to Communism and State Property...

 

[malekithe]

In case you don't know you can check what techs an AI is researching by using a spy, but that doesn't really apply here since that is after SciMethod.

You can also tell when an AI has started research on a tech through repeated trade offers. Simply offer your tech of choice up for trade and see what the AI will offer in return. Over the next several turns, make the same offer. If the AI ever reduces the amount they are willing to give, it means they have begun their own research.

 

[cabert]

You can also tell when an AI has started research on a tech through repeated trade offers. Simply offer your tech of choice up for trade and see what the AI will offer in return. Over the next several turns, make the same offer. If the AI ever reduces the amount they are willing to give, it means they have begun their own research.

I was going to post this
It's a bit tiresome, so I only do it for specific techs :
- litterature/drama (first one usually) when I go for music first
- education/philosophy when I go for liberalism first
- scimet when I go for physics first (this one is very rare, since a late GS doesn't provide enough bonus for me to bother)

 

[Immaculate]

This has really cleared things up for me.

Previously i wanted to fill my cities with as many monastaries as i could pre-scimed so i would get greater benefits (research) once i could no longer build them, but post-scimed, the only thing they are useful for is missionaries and culture? Not research? (and research/cash with the appropriate wonders?)

I.

 

[cabert]

This has really cleared things up for me.

Previously i wanted to fill my cities with as many monastaries as i could pre-scimed so i would get greater benefits (research) once i could no longer build them, but post-scimed, the only thing they are useful for is missionaries and culture? Not research? (and research/cash with the appropriate wonders?)

exactly, that's when UoSankore and Spiral Minaret lose most of their output.