Scout upgrades?

[CaptainPatch]

As far as I can ascertain, the Scout is the only Military unit that has NO upgrades over the course of 5,000 years. If it trips over an Ancient Ruin that "equips your unit with improved weaponry", then it de facto becomes that unit type, but retains its original Scout abilities. But absent the benefit from an Ancient Ruin, nada.

So, why not? There must be something Scout-ish in the way of improvements that can be awarded. With the march of tech improvements, they would inevitably get better weapons. And doesn't it seem that eventually they become the forefathers of Commandos, SAS, Green Berets, etc.? So why no upgrade? It's not like they're "civilian contractors" like Worker units. [Besides, these days civilian contractors have better equipment at their disposal than most Regular Military units!]

 

[katfish]

As far as I can ascertain, the Scout is the only Military unit that has NO upgrades over the course of 5,000 years. If it trips over an Ancient Ruin that "equips your unit with improved weaponry", then it de facto becomes that unit type, but retains its original Scout abilities. But absent the benefit from an Ancient Ruin, nada.

So, why not? There must be something Scout-ish in the way of improvements that can be awarded. With the march of tech improvements, they would inevitably get better weapons. And doesn't it seem that eventually they become the forefathers of Commandos, SAS, Green Berets, etc.? So why no upgrade? It's not like they're "civilian contractors" like Worker units. [Besides, these days civilian contractors have better equipment at their disposal than most Regular Military units!]

I think scout should upgrade to archeologist, with adequate price ofcourse.

 

[Makavcio]

I think scout should upgrade to archeologist, with adequate price of course.

Absolutely not. The whole idea behind archaeologists is that you need to build them in cities with universities, so there are harsh conditions preventing you from just buying your victory in race for culture.

Scouts should get promotions nevertheless. Scout-explorer duet from civ4 was a simple, elegant solution. Give us a strength 10 explorer with +1 embarked movement, +1 sight and +25% against barbarians and we are cool. He would be unlocked with astronomy and for some additional flavor he could provide a monetary bonus for every natural wonder found by him and/or give +100% yield from ancient ruins.

Such explorer wouldn't be overpowered in any way and would make ancient ruins slightly more interesting in mid-game exploration.

 

[Dedrytus]

We should have ability to upgrade scouts to recon units. For example: weaker cavalry or not so strong mechanized infantry. See link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconnaissance

 

[Teodosio]

Absolutely not. The whole idea behind archaeologists is that you need to build them in cities with universities, so there are harsh conditions preventing you from just buying your victory in race for culture.

Scouts should get promotions nevertheless. Scout-explorer duet from civ4 was a simple, elegant solution. Give us a strength 10 explorer with +1 embarked movement, +1 sight and +25% against barbarians and we are cool. He would be unlocked with astronomy and for some additional flavor he could provide a monetary bonus for every natural wonder found by him and/or give +100% yield from ancient ruins.

Such explorer wouldn't be overpowered in any way and would make ancient ruins slightly more interesting in mid-game exploration.

We should have ability to upgrade scouts to recon units. For example: weaker cavalry or not so strong mechanized infantry. See link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconnaissance

I agree with both of you.
Recon units (weak but with long vision and movement bonuses) should be available for all ages.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Absolutely not. The whole idea behind archaeologists is that you need to build them in cities with universities, so there are harsh conditions preventing you from just buying your victory in race for culture.

Scouts should get promotions nevertheless. Scout-explorer duet from civ4 was a simple, elegant solution. Give us a strength 10 explorer with +1 embarked movement, +1 sight and +25% against barbarians and we are cool. He would be unlocked with astronomy and for some additional flavor he could provide a monetary bonus for every natural wonder found by him and/or give +100% yield from ancient ruins.

Such explorer wouldn't be overpowered in any way and would make ancient ruins slightly more interesting in mid-game exploration.

+1 Embarked sight and movement (the Polynesia bonus) for a unit available with Astronomy would be good.
Then an additional bonus to discovering national Wonders or Ancient ruins to make it worth while.
(I'd probably make it Str 15)

Then upgrade to a Recon unit some time later (add Ignore ZOC)

 

[jessie23]

I miss the explorer. Another idea might be to add an explorer ability that lets you build a colony on a resource that isn't within your territory so that you can gain access to it.

Workers were able to build colonies in Civ III iirc. I miss the ability to do something like that sometimes.

 

[El Caballerion]

I made the suggestion some time ago that the Scout should be able to see all enemy promotions within a 3 tile radius. That would give it some inclination to fight alongside your armies, especially when you're fighting an enemy with weird and unknown promotions (like the Kris Swordsman).

 

[zukenft]

so have any of you guys modded in the explorer from the scramble africa scenario?

 

[Yzman]

Scout should upgrade to an explorer unit, which could have significant movement bonuses but weak combat, probably similar to something like the explorers from the SfA scenario.

I hate having a weak scout so far into the game and that is very common it seems because you need to manually explore the whole world alone unlike previous entries where maps could be traded.

This has been one of my biggest gripes since the game was released.

 

[justaquestion]

i think they should be upgraded to explorers like civ4. it sucks having a weak scout bc barbs take them out easily even in the beginning of the game

 

[Barghaest]

i think they should be upgraded to explorers like civ4. it sucks having a weak scout bc barbs take them out easily even in the beginning of the game

I actually did an entire scout line in my Civ V games... upgrading them to Mounted Scouts and later to a Forward Observer and eventually Combat Engineers (with Globalization). All had about 75% of the strength of equivalent Infantry style units of that era with the same promotion restriction as the original scout... so they couldn't get Shock or Drill to boost CS and were very weak vs other units. The point was mobility (Ignore Terrain Cost mainly but later could ignore borders) and vision range to help spot for siege units and minor skirmishing to delay advancing armies through rough terrain or dealing with Barbarian Encampments.

I always felt the ruin upgrade to Archer from vanilla was seriously OP. If I leveled a scout to 6 or higher where they had all three Survival and Scouting upgrades before they got the promo to Archer they were a nearly unbeatable unit from that point on... especially once a few promotions were achieved in their new combat class.

Unfortunately, I suffered a HD failure and lost all my data and became so depressed over my failure to back it up that I haven't gotten around to redoing it... that and I haven't played BNW yet and I like to try new expansions vanilla before I start tweaking (even though the pace of the vanilla game really annoys me).

 

[kaspergm]

so have any of you guys modded in the explorer from the scramble africa scenario?

Yes, I have done that. Changed the abilities though, so that it has embarked sight, embarked defense and full embarked movement and comes with Astronomy. Thus it will allow you to explore cross-continents effectively once you get the ability to cross oceans.

 

[Dentalfury]

Scout should upgrade to an explorer unit, which could have significant movement bonuses but weak combat, probably similar to something like the explorers from the SfA scenario.

I hate having a weak scout so far into the game and that is very common it seems because you need to manually explore the whole world alone unlike previous entries where maps could be traded.

This has been one of my biggest gripes since the game was released.

I agree to an extent. It always seemed like the scout was left out in the rain compared to other units. Even the ranged upgrade path was solved to some satisfaction with the addition of the Bazooka unit. Scouting and Recon generally, as mentioned above, is a key part of any military action and I supposed you could make the argument that the 'sight' of the unit (i.e. division or army) represents it's local ability to scout.

I have another suggestion that I don't think I've seen elsewhere. Make Scouts upgrade into...

Reconisance - units that have a weak combat strength (inline with it's core limitation from previous eras)
- +1 movement to let it keep pace with Mounted/Industrial units
- Can only be spotted by other Recon units or Mounted Units with Sight upgrade
- Cannot Pillage, or becomes visible for 3 turns if it pillages
- Possible limitation for stealth in foreign lands, maybe becomes visible after x turns?

I envision this to be exactly like the submarine/destroyer dynamic in naval combat. A game of cat and mouse except all the scout is interested in is information. I included the limitation about pillaging because I could foresee the potential of abuse if someone decided to build a bunch of stealth guerrilla warfare units and sent them into enemy territory to pillage everything of note with basically no downside or counter then building your own Recon's and position them everywhere in your own lands.

 

[HipNozY]

I think the scout should be upgradable to a better scout/recon unit. Some examples from the game R.U.S.E.:
German recon: http://ruse.wikia.com/wiki/Kübelwagen
US recon: http://ruse.wikia.com/wiki/Willys
English armored recon: http://ruse.wikia.com/wiki/AC_Mk.1

 

[Kizo]

Two scouts should be able to Fusion Dance into a Giant Death Robot.

 

[Gort]

Maybe it should just remain "scout", but have an upgrade to its combat strength and picture each age, ending up with maybe 6 speed by the information age? (keep in mind that it'll still ignore terrain so it's still faster than modern armour)

 

[householder]

so have any of you guys modded in the explorer from the scramble africa scenario?

There is a mod in the Steam Workshop which does that. I haven't tried it since the upgrade is not unlocked until rifling, which may be realistic but I typically have disbanded any scouts by then.

The explorer unit is based on the Scramble for Africa unit, but it doesn't replace the archeologist or have anything to do with archeology. It has a combat strength of 21, ignores terrain penalties and obsoletes with Flight. The explorer does not have an upgrade.

The mod is titled "Units - Scout to Explorer", just in case anyone is interested.

Personally, I think the upgrade should come earlier and I like the idea of a reconnaissance upgrade path which extends beyond explorer. Sadly, my attempts at modding have been dismal failures, so that is an undertaking beyond my feeble ability.

 

[weregamer]

I've played quite a bit with that mod, and it is adequate but, as folks have said, Rifling makes it a little too late to be useful. The biggest effect seems to be that barbs can randomly start spawning Explorers instead of riflemen, which is not good.

 

[Elz Majesto]

two scouts should be able to fusion dance into a giant death robot.

ffuuuuussiioonnnn....haaaa!