Secession talk from Arizona

[JollyRoger]

Liberal leaders in southern Arizona, tired of enduring conservative victories in their state legislature on everything from immigration to gun laws, have a plan: break away and form a separate state known as Baja Arizona. The idea has been around for years, but a new "Start Our State" effort is seeking a referendum to allow residents of liberal-leaning Pima County to vote on whether to secede. Could Baja Arizona become the 51st state?

http://www.theweek.com/article/index/212609/civil-war-in-arizona

So those of you that think Arizona can secede from the United States, do you think that Baja Arizona can secede from Arizona?

 

[Cutlass]

States can't secede. I don't recall off the top of my head what the rules are fr breaking up states.

 

[Skwink]

I believe in secession. If I didn't, how else would I plan to create the Republic of Cascadia?

But no. There should be no Baja Arizona. The liberals are just being the kid in the neighborhood basketball game who gets mad he's losing so he takes his ball and goes home.

 

[ZeletDude]

Baja Arizona is a terrible name for a state.

 

[Cynovolans]

It would look weird on a map, so no.

 

[bhsup]

Nope. Article 4, Section 3: New States may be admitted by the Congress into this Union; but no new State shall be formed or erected within the Jurisdiction of any other State; nor any State be formed by the Junction of two or more States, or Parts of States, without the Consent of the Legislatures of the States concerned as well as of the Congress.

That's actually spelled out clearly in the Constitution. As they do not want to leave the union, but remain a part of it, just apart from Arizona, it would require the approval of Arizona and the US Congress.

 

[JollyRoger]

Nope. Article 4, Section 3: New States may be admitted by the Congress into this Union; but no new State shall be formed or erected within the Jurisdiction of any other State; nor any State be formed by the Junction of two or more States, or Parts of States, without the Consent of the Legislatures of the States concerned as well as of the Congress.

That's actually spelled out clearly in the Constitution. As they do not want to leave the union, but remain a part of it, just apart from Arizona, it would require the approval of Arizona and the US Congress.

Let's say that Baja Arizona seceded from Arizona and formed its own country. Could it be admitted to the union?

 

[Ajidica]

@VRWCA: Darn you, I was just about to post that!
Anyhow, what you said. If they can get the support, let them.

 

[JollyRoger]

Or say Arizona secedes and then Baja Arizona secedes from Arizona. Could Baja Arizona get admitted on its own?

 

[madviking]

NoVa will become a state much sooner than BaAz.

 

[Ajidica]

You mean pull a West Virginia?

 

[Tani Coyote]

I support secession of any kind as a right.

I also support the feds crushing any secession brutally and ruthlessly, however.

---

Oh, we're talking peaceful secession. They are free to secede from Arizona so long as AZ and Congress agree. If not, they're still free, but now we'll be free to repatriate them by force of arms.

 

[Cynovolans]

Now that i think about it I want all states west of the Mississippi returned to territory status until they are divided in more original ways.

 

[bhsup]

@Jolly: Can't work that way. So long as Arizona remains a State in this voluntary union, a section of it cannot just break away and become its own country. Said section would, as I pointed out, first have to get permission from both State of Arizona and US Congress to break away and become its own State first. Once that has occurred, it could certainly and legally secede, as can any State.

 

[ZeletDude]

Now that i think about it I want all states west of the Mississippi returned to territory status until they are divided in more original ways.

I disagree the West has awesome borders, Large and straight lines.

 

[Tee Kay]

Baja Arizona? Sounds like someone wants to reunite with Mexico...

 

[JollyRoger]

@Jolly: Can't work that way. So long as Arizona remains a State in this voluntary union, a section of it cannot just break away and become its own country. Said section would, as I pointed out, first have to get permission from both State of Arizona and US Congress to break away and become its own State first. Once that has occurred, it could certainly and legally secede, as can any State.

It would have to get permission to become a state under a peaceful division. If it breaks away with enough force to become its own country then it is no longer a part of Arizona. I see nothing in the Constitution that prevents a portion of a state from seceding (unless it's in the part preventing a full state from seceding)

 

[Formaldehyde]

I think it is a great idea for all the metropolitan areas of any red state, and even blue states who are now under attack by the Tea Partyers in many areas. Who wants to live under the rule of dangerous reactionaries like Scott Walker and Joe Arpaio, while having provincial laws shoved down your throats by the fundamentalists?

People shouldn't have to move to a northern state to escape bigotry and racial profiling.

 

[bhsup]

Well that is certainly true. Victory has always historically made revolts legitimate. Might may not make right, but it sure as hell makes moot.

 

[GhostWriter16]

NoVa will become a state much sooner than BaAz.

Do we REALLY want a third Virginia?

I support secession of any kind as a right.

I also support the feds crushing any secession brutally and ruthlessly, however.---

Oh, we're talking peaceful secession. They are free to secede from Arizona so long as AZ and Congress agree. If not, they're still free, but now we'll be free to repatriate them by force of arms.

I take it you jest?

@Jolly: Can't work that way. So long as Arizona remains a State in this voluntary union, a section of it cannot just break away and become its own country. Said section would, as I pointed out, first have to get permission from both State of Arizona and US Congress to break away and become its own State first. Once that has occurred, it could certainly and legally secede, as can any State.

I agree, at least constitutionally. That said, I don't think that means anything in all situations. For instance, if Arizona wanted to leave the Union, and Pima County didn't, they should be allowed to stay.

That said, I would still support the proposal that's been floating around to make Long Island (Nassau and Suffolk, not NYC) an independent state, since I hate NY that much, I don't give a crap about them

I think it is a great idea for all the metropolitan areas of any red state, and even blue states who are now under attack by the Tea Partyers in many areas. Who wants to live under the rule of dangerous reactionaries like Scott Walker and Joe Arpaio, while having provincial laws shoved down your throats by the fundamentalists?

People shouldn't have to move to a northern state to escape bigotry and racial profiling.

Should conservative areas of Liberal states be allowed to do the same?

If so, you are making an argument for localizing the law, which isn't inherently a bad idea, but would require a Constitutional Amendment. If not, you are just being inconsistent.

Well that is certainly true. Victory has always historically made revolts legitimate. Might may not make right, but it sure as hell makes moot.

Sadly it is true