Settler factories - when, and how big?

[trcamp100]

I am pretty new to the game. I have advanced to monarch but have not won there yet. Mostly, I get too far behind in tech by the end of middle ages. Anyway - great site, and great topic here. Two questions (for now) -

1. Reroll the map?? Does that mean starting a game and exploring the map and then starting the same map over again?

2. Settler factory - I was gravitating towards that idea on my own, but a great idea. You start on this on turn one. Does that mean your capital becomes the settler factory, or do you make the SF the next city, after exploring the map and restarting the game so you know where it should go?

 

[Aabraxan]

Welcome to CFC, trcamp100! I haven't looked back through the thread to see who was talking about rerolling the map, but I doubt it means starting the game over after you've explored the map. It probably just means starting a new game. As for the location of the SF, you put it in whatever town is best suited to it. Sometimes it's the capital, sometimes it's not, but I don't explore the map, then restart. If I get a SF going, then find a better location, either I can have 2 going, or I'll put the SF in the new location, and switch the old one to something else, maybe a worker factory.

Speaking of workers, if you're falling behind in tech by the end of the MA, that may be the problem. We see quite a few "newbie needs help" threads here, and the common problems are often: (1) too few workers; (2) too few roads; (3) ineffective trading; (4) lots of unnecessary structures; and (5) too many unnecessary defensive units. The best way to get specific help on your game, though, is to post a save.

 

[undertoad]

I am pretty new to the game. I have advanced to monarch but have not won there yet. Mostly, I get too far behind in tech by the end of middle ages. Anyway - great site, and great topic here. Two questions (for now) -

1. Reroll the map?? Does that mean starting a game and exploring the map and then starting the same map over again?

2. Settler factory - I was gravitating towards that idea on my own, but a great idea. You start on this on turn one. Does that mean your capital becomes the settler factory, or do you make the SF the next city, after exploring the map and restarting the game so you know where it should go?

1. Yep, as Aabraxan guessed, I meant just starting a new game, because I don't like my starting location!

2. You can't really start a settler-factory operating from turn one. You need a Granary (not all civs start with Pottery), and the city has to be a certain size to be able to rumble along like a machine and deliver a Settler every 4 (or 6) turns. What you can do from the start is identify possible locations for a factory (e.g. 2 Cows in city radius!), locate your cities accordingly, and get the improvements (e.g. irrigation) started for a factory.
Sometimes it's the capital, sometimes it isn't (a lot of people who've advised me here emphasise the importance of getting your capital down quickly, rather than wandering about looking for the absolute ideal location).

What you suggest as an alternative "re-rolling of the map" sounds like a good tactic. I'd consider it cheating in my personal code of Civ-ethics (whereas starting a new game, to me, is not cheating... ) - you go and do whatever you like.

 

[Hellfiredoom]

I'm with you undertoad. I "reroll" a map until my starting location looks good (ie bonus tiles and on a river) but consider scouting around then reloading from 4000BC a cheat.

trcamp: I play Monarch a lot, and sometimes play Emporer when I feel like putting the time into MM that is needed to win at that level. On Monarch, I almost always fall behind in tech, even with the Great Library. The trick (my trick anyway) is not to worry about it, just beeline to Replaceable Parts for artillery and infantry. With an appropriate sized empire you can produce enough units to not only defend, but also put together a SOD (stack of doom) of infantry and artillery to take the battle to the other Civs. I can't stress enough the importance of artillery as both the best offensive and defensive unit in the game.

 

[trcamp100]

Thanks everyone - I already figured out the stack of doom, hellfire.

Aabraxan - my trading hasn't been inefficient, it has been non-existent. That will change. From reading elsewhere, it seems that it is a good idea to develop advances horizontally and sell them to other civs. Does that sound right?

Another mistake I have been making (which I will correct) is to start building a wonder with my capital as soon as I have built a warrior and a settler, although the pyramids does seem awfully tempting. I guess I'm getting off the topic here, but is the pyramids worth going after early? It uses up many shields.

 

[Aabraxan]

Research: Yes, research horizontally, and sell for gpt & techs. Use the AI's gold to fund your own research. Once you decide to sell a tech, try to sell it to multiple civs on the same turn. That will keep the AI from profiting from your research.

Wonders: I'd say that's awfully early to go for a wonder. The Pyramids is a very powerful wonder, and one of my favorites, but hand-building a wonder that early definitely hampers your early expasnsion phase. It may be a good idea in some OCC or 20k games, but I don't play those often, so I'll leave advising on them to others. For domination & conquest games, though, military units and settlers are the meat and potatoes of the game, while wonders are the dessert. Wonders are powerful, and they're fun, but they're expensive.

 

[undertoad]

Another mistake I have been making (which I will correct) is to start building a wonder with my capital as soon as I have built a warrior and a settler, although the pyramids does seem awfully tempting. I guess I'm getting off the topic here, but is the pyramids worth going after early? It uses up many shields.

Such a dilemma. The exact problem in the extreme-early game is getting things to happen faster (god it takes centuries just to grow a city, get a Worker from A to B), and here's a Super-Granary Wonder that'll make your cities grow twice as fast.

I used to go for it all the time, but never do now. I console myself by thinking, well I won't get the benefits of Pyramids (assuming I even do - it's a hard Wonder not to get beaten to) for 50+ turns - what I need is expansion now.

I do thank my lucky stars when one of my neighbours builds it...

 

[trcamp100]

OK - I started a game this morning - took your advice and didn't start the pyramids (it was hard, Undertoad - a dilemma). I had a good capital for shields and I started a settler factory in my 2nd city. It had a cow and a river and forest. I am playing in a large world, and by the time I got the SF fully operational, with a granery and all the work done, I already had a dozen cities, mostly from settlers from my capital, and there was hardly room left for any more. I am playing in a large world. Do I need to be in the next size larger world, to allow more time to start cities?

Also - I had no luck selling my advances for GPT - they offered one-time payments and advances, which I ended up taking. I was able to keep them poor, at least temporarily, but no GPT. I researched straight across to Monarchy. Is there any trick to getting the other civs to accept GPT?

 

[Aabraxan]

Hmmm, you ran out of room for settlers in a large world, where you put a SF in your second city? And this with a dozen cities? How far apart are you spacing your cities? On a standard-sized, continents map, I have room on my continent for way more than a dozen cities. Do you mean that you ran out of room when you bumped into your neighbors, or did you clear them out and run out of room because you reached the coastlines?

Edit: Two points on selling for gpt: (1) at Monarch, the AI simply might not have any gpt to spend; and (2) be very careful about your rep, so that you can also pay gpt or resources, should you need to.

 

[trcamp100]

Aabraxan - My cities were mostly 2-3 squares apart, except for the mountainous areas. I learned to do that from another thread here, to avoid having other civs build between my cities. With a dozen or so cities, I bumped into neighbors. Also, there was lots of mountain - probably way more than normal. I guess the question is - building lots of settlers, mostly with my capital, would you say the time taken to create a dozen or so cities is a normal length of time to get a SF running all out, built as the second city?

Incidently - thanks for your input. This is a great site!!

 

[Aabraxan]

Ah, ok. If you're just bumping into neighbors in ~12 cities, that sounds about right at Monarch. It does take some fiddling to get the SF running and tuned, with a granary and all the necessary tile improvements, but once you do, it's a very powerful technique. I guess that one of the things about a SF is that you have to have places to put all those settlers. That means, ahem, assisting the AI is adjusting its borders . . .

And yes, the AI will look for dead zones inside your empire (the "doughnut holes") where it can put settlers. If you're playing for military victory, tight city spacing will serve you better than loose. Naturally, terrain will sometimes dictate that you push a city a little tighter or looser.

And I'm glad to help.

 

[trcamp100]

assisting the a1 adjust its borders?? Do you mean somehow literally changing the shape of the continent or the landscape (if so how), or do you mean being nasty to my neighbors?

 

[Aabraxan]

No, I just mean being nasty to them. I assist them in adjusting their borders by either capturing their cities, or burning them to the ground. Either way, the AI gets its borders adjusted.