SGOTM 10 - Xteam

[Cactus Pete]

I don't think Gandhi will attack with the war elephant AND protect it with a LB from Delhi. Yes, but he might build another lb IBT.That would leave one LB in Delhi. The AI doesn't usually do that when a city is threatened. If G's elephant is within range of both of ours next turn, I think it's ok to attack it. If it beelines for St. Pete, you can upgrade a warrior to a pike.

Mao's worst enemy is Gandhi but there are other AI he doesn't like. I'd be surprised to see him launch an intercontinental invasion so soon. The SIT_REP on the Military advisor screen shows G to be Mao's top target. Thought AI declared war on the basis of that. Besides, he has no cities on the ocean. Sure missed that.

Ice island could have barb LBs or maces. Suggest you use LB 1 as a fogbuster on the southern silver where it will get a 75% defensive bonus after fortifying for 5 turns. Okay, but what priority should be given to exploring the rest of the island?The new settler can move unescorted south of Bombay. That's the plan.

For other fogbusting, our explorer should move west to one of the plains hills. He's in route.He's completely redundant where he is now. Warrior 3 should move SSW to the ice hill. Ibid. The western stolen worker (rename Sorry, forgotten how. stolen workers to worker B and worker C) might need to stay on that hill until the settler arrives or until the wounded LB takes its place. That's the plan.With all of this done, we should have all the cities we want on this continent. Your giving G no credit for troublemaking.

I think you can sell You mean gift? our map to everyone but Gandhi now. Also watch for the chance to trade our crab for wine or dyes. Will do.

The culture from Bombay could be a problem soon. The forests WSW of Moscow is already 45% Indian. Shall we chop it now? Was planning to chop forest SW of HC first, but will change plan if % goes down IBT. I guess the library and National Epic in St. Pete should put out enough culture to keep the forest to its SSW, but we might want to chop that one anyway since it has the greatest chance of regrowing. That would certainly speed NE, but don't think it merits immediate action unless we go for monastery, as you tentatively propose below.

I notice we still haven't gotten free Christianity spread in Moscow. Shall we continue waiting or actively do something? Do we need a monastery in St. Pete or to adopt OR?

Going to delay playing tonight until team checks in on this. My sense is, given the experience of Moscow always converting naturally in my test games, that the cost of building monastery or revolting to OR then building a missionary is too great.

 

[Cactus Pete]

When the GE is born in Moscow no later than 12 turns from now it doesn't really matter much if it takes 50 turns more to get Christianity there because all our GP's will be coming out of St. Pete anyway. For this reason I think a Monastery will come too late. Adopting OR will provide some extra hammers in St. Pete for the Library but no more than we need to spend on a missionary. The extra turn of anarchy from adopting OR before Pacifism should then be weighted against saving 3 turns on the first GE and 3 turns on the Library but no turns on the NE (maybe even loosing a turn). I think this means that adopting OR is slightly unfavorable compared to just waiting for the GE to pop. Makes sense. We can't go to Pacifism before we either have Christianity in Moscow or the GE has popped.

Understand, but I'd still like to go ahead and convert to state religion now, when we lose fewer hammers and gold with fewer cities and citizens than is likely to be the case any time in the future.

 

[Frederiksberg]

I noticed that we don't have a work boat ready for the next city we will settle. Letting the new city build it's own wb is not very efficient so perhaps we should chop one in HC? We already have some workers in a forest down there.

 

[Cactus Pete]

I noticed that we don't have a work boat ready for the next city we will settle. Letting the new city build it's own wb is not very efficient so perhaps we should chop one in HC? We already have some workers in a forest down there.

Given that every new city has basic infrastructure, don't understand why chopping (and a forest is available to pre-chop) workboat would be inefficient.

 

[leif erikson]

Do we need a Galley to transport units to the silver island?

I'll be out of touch for the next 36 to 48 hours as we take our son to school. Keep up the good work!

 

[Cactus Pete]

Do we need a Galley to transport units to the silver island? Building one in HC now.

I'll be out of touch for the next 36 to 48 hours as we take our son to school. It's not taking him that's hard. It's leaving him behind. Keep up the good work!

Tentative plan is to do nothing about converting Moscow, but to convert to a state religion immediately and to then wait for natural conversion of, or the GE to pop in, Moscow, whichever comes first, before converting to Pacifism (or posssibly OR). Would like validation of this and discussion of anything else that is thought important to resolve before I continue.

 

[Mad Professor]

The SIT_REP on the Military advisor screen shows G to be Mao's top target. Thought AI declared war on the basis of that.

Nope. Gandhi is his "worst enemy" with whom he won't trade, and will ask us to stop trading with and all that, but I've seen AI declare war on other than their worst enemy if another target is a lot more convenient.

 

[Mad Professor]

Tentative plan is to do nothing about converting Moscow, but to convert to a state religion immediately and to then wait for natural conversion of, or the GE to pop in, Moscow, whichever comes first, before converting to Pacifism (or posssibly OR). Would like validation of this and discussion of anything else that is thought important to resolve before I continue.

I would prefer Pasifism over OR.

 

[ShannonCT]

Moscow can whip another settler soon (could grow to Pop8 next turn). It would be good to adopt religion with two settlers in route.

 

[Cactus Pete]

Moscow can whip another settler soon (could grow to Pop8 next turn). It would be good to adopt religion with two settlers in route.

That works. I'll wait.

 

[Frederiksberg]

Given that every new city has basic infrastructure, don't understand why chopping (and a forest is available to pre-chop) workboat would be inefficient.

Maybe you could explain where the settler is headed then - I was under the impression that it was intended for the iron spot.

EDIT: Think I found out from the dot map on page 18. I suppose the settler is headed for the spot near the western fur. Any thoughts on the order of settling the dot mapped sites?

 

[ShannonCT]

If the next two cities we settle are the red and blue cities on the dotmap, we can end the war with Gandhi soon. St. Pete's next (and final) settler can grab the northwest site before Gandhi gets there, especially if we build a road. And Gandhi will never beat us to ice island.

 

[Cactus Pete]

If the next two cities we settle are the red and blue cities on the dotmap, we can end the war with Gandhi soon. St. Pete's next (and final) settler can grab the northwest site before Gandhi gets there, especially if we build a road. And Gandhi will never beat us to ice island.

Concur.

SCT, if you will clear up my confusion regarding either gifting or trading our map (see post 421, about the fourth item, at top of page), I'll try to play some more.

 

[ShannonCT]

Concur.

SCT, if you will clear up my confusion regarding either gifting or trading our map (see post 421, about the fourth item, at top of page), I'll try to play some more.

You can sell it and still get diplo benefit if the price is less than the AI would be willing to pay. But I think maximizing diplo benefit is more important than getting a bit more gold, so I would gift.

 

[Cactus Pete]

Will gift maps and continue as time alllows.

Have we decided to forget the white city?

 

[Cactus Pete]

IBT: WE retreats into Delhi despite the fact that another longbow is produced there, plus G's last worker moves onto the ivory NW of Bombay adjacent to our WE and warrior. (Never overestimate the AI.)

T36: Culture now at only 51% Russian on Moscow forest, though 71% on the SP woodlands. (Afraid I have been oblivious and wasted a forest. Wondering if Bombay has been building culture, not a settler or a wonder.)
WE and warrior capture G's worker;

IBT: De Gaulle founds Lyons;
WE and lb move 1E out of Delhi;
Moscow forest unfortunately now Russian and SP's at 70% (library may slow this)

T37: Iron hooked;
Moscow to pop 8, switch build to settler

IBT: British get a GE
Indian WE advances east, but lb retreats to city;

T38: attack WE with our WE (32%) and lose, then attack with lb (at 94%) and win (now 2.4 with a promotion available);

IBT: Churchill completes Angkor Wat;
Indian lb moves 1NE out of city
Caravel built in Delhi

T39: Whip settler in Moscow;
move caravel NW

IBT: Library complete in SP and settler in Moscow;
Indian lb retreats back to Delphi;
Indian caravel chases our caravel, but galley stays in city

T40: NE begun in SP (noted that new citizen was made a science specialist, but detected and moved to landscape so as not to jeopardize GE coming from Moscow)
Library begun in Moscow;
put research at 100%;
convert to Christianity;
note SP forest remains at 70% Russian (but take a look at Moscow's!);
move our caravel in attempt to lead G's away from SP's harbor

Debating whether or not to chop/whip knight in HC. Depends on how long before we can safely have peace with G, which probably depends on the utility of the white city, as it will be hard to stop him from getting (should he chose to) there without a knight. Worker would be alternative there. Soliciting discussion on this before continuing.

RL calls in mid-turn. Here is save: http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=226112&stc=1&d=1251494621

 

[Frederiksberg]

"White" city doesn't seem worth much with no resources and heavy cultural pressure from Bombay. How about going for the spot between iron and cows north of Delhi?

In my test game Gandhi didn't build any settler before I ended the war so if we can keep this a "phony" war for a while longer we may not need more units in the immediate future. We may need a knight later when Gandhi has built some "extra" units he will send against us. Don't like whipping anything except settlers and workers so I suggest we build/chop the knight.

 

[ShannonCT]

The White City will be pretty weak until techs like Communism, Replaceable Parts, Chemistry, and Biology. We could farm the two grasslands, build a windmill, a couple watermills, and let it grow in anticipation of the techs that will make it more productive. If Gandhi is the first AI we take out, it will eventually get more tiles back that can be turned into workshops in time to help build nukes. We could look to grow the population high enough in anticipation of that day.

The cow/iron/clam site has those three nice tiles but only one more land tile. I'd rather have more cities on the big continent or the islands to the east or west that had more land tiles.

Moscow already put some hammers into a horse archer that I assume was not completed. There should be some hammers invested in a knight now that iron is hooked. I don't see the need to produce another knight in HC. Maybe start on some workboats for future cities on ice island and the northern peninsula.

 

[Cactus Pete]

"White" city doesn't seem worth much with no resources and heavy cultural pressure from Bombay. How about going for the spot between iron and cows north of Delhi? G's culture would stifle this city badly.

In my test game Gandhi didn't build any settler before I ended the war Did he do anything like what is happening in Bombay -- nothing built my whole turn? so if we can keep this a "phony" war for a while longer we may not need more units in the immediate future. We may need a knight later when Gandhi has built some "extra" units he will send against us. If it's important to keep the white city site unsettled 'til we can get there, better get a knight built.Don't like whipping anything except settlers and workers so I suggest we build/chop the knight.

Okay, will chop knight after galley in HC and then whip a worker ASAP.

After blue city, which city next? Could end war earlier if it is white.

 

[Cactus Pete]

Moscow already put some hammers into a horse archer that I assume was not completed. No, I stopped HA to build settler ASAP, and when I switched to knight, those 17 hammers were no longer there.There should be some hammers invested in a knight now that iron is hooked. I don't see the need to produce another knight in HC. Maybe start on some workboats for future cities on ice island and the northern peninsula.

Galley, Knight, worker, then workboats now planned for HC.

If we settled island city just SE of the iron, instead of on it, then we could settle the white city 2W of the beaver and have a bit better city sooner .