SGOTM 12 - Barley Demons

[ruff_hi]

I've updated post #2 with a summary of the rules thread -I will keep it updated as things develop. I am happy to be a turn player.

 

[regoarrarr]

Another option is that with barbs off we could just send our settler off into the fog in hopes of finding a better spot. But probably not worth it

 

[Aamelia]

Nah, we better trust in the mapmakers for this, especially since the world is covered in fall out >< we could go out there and find that there's nowhere else to plant. And this, for the first 75 turns or so, is always war. We need every turn we can get to expand and kill. Sure, they start out a bit horrible, but then, so do we.

Edit: Looking at the start again, we have 2 options i think. One is a super capital, with 4 food and 2 gold... but on the other hand, we can have 1 city 1W of the clam, 1E of the cows, and another city on plains hill 1 SE of the silk, giving us two strong cities to start with.

1W of the clams is even the only place without forests, thus saving us 20-30 hammers.

I thought of 1 NW of the start, to get 2 gold, 2 silk, fish and sugar, but that would require a second city to get the fish connected, has no lighthouse, and so on.

 

[sunrise089]

I still like NE. Settling in place is crazy IMHO, giving up the clams forever. Re: picking up the fish versus the rice, just settle a city 1W of the fish (getting the post-lighthouse 3-food lake tile).

 

[athlete4life10]

Checking in...for the first time ever I'm posting at Civ Fanatics! Look what RB has done to me

I think I agree with Sunrise...planting NE is best. You grab the fish with a 2nd city and can split the precious metals between them if need be. If there's seafood to the south you can still plant on the plains/hill there or beside it if you want. There's also more land in your capital settling 1NE rather than 1N, 1NE.

Rego's opening suggestion of going worker/(chopped) worker (maybe more?) while teching BW straight off the bat to help clear fall-out is probably best. I read the rules that the AI has had their units deleted as well so you should be safe and it gets you off to the quickest start possible.

 

[pocketbeetle]

And just to focus everyones' thoughts: this is a space race game.

That means we need to focus on tech rate.
Which, given the likely coastal plant, means Great Lighthouse and getting to Oxford Uni asap.

 

[sunrise089]

I prefer warrior first I think. But we've had this discussion before I'm sure - better to put ourselves in a position to finish the game midpack, or either die or win in a coinflip? Worker first is definitely the better long-term option, but only assuming we don't die on t10.

Also, and sort of conversely, if we have copper I think we want to send out an axe right away. The AI will make archers and not warriors, but we still may find an axe vs flatland archer battle, and that's probably worth taking.

 

[SevenSpirits]

Checking in, most likely preferring to not turnplay.

I'm also thinking 1NE, or NE-N. Coastal, and not losing the clam, are both strong. Probably NE-N.

I see no good reason to start with a warrior. Our enemies have no units! Their first unit will guard their capital. Only after they build a second unit do we have to conceivably worry, though with two archers they may actually guard with both of them still.

 

[Selrahc]

Remember Sunrise, the only AI we want to kill is Stalin.

All other AIs must survive and be at peace with the player when space victory is achieved.

EDIT: Also, checking in as a lurker for Barley Demons. Do I need to do that in another thread as well?

 

[Sareln]

Checking in. Gone this weekend, but up for turnplaying after that.

 

[Compromise]

Ruff: Nice work on post #2. Good to have two early posts that can serve as reference posts.

Re: settling location and first build. I just want to throw out the possibility of settling in place, then switching to a warrior when the culture grabs the 3H forested plains hill to the south. We could knock out a warrior in 4T who would be able to scout unopposed while the AIs build their city defense forces.

(I'm not suggesting that I prefer this, I just want to point it out.)

 

[regoarrarr]

Also, checking in as a lurker for Barley Demons. Do I need to do that in another thread as well?

No I don't think so. At least I didn't.

 

[Aamelia]

Worker first, easily. The enemies do not have units, so they'll take a long time to build that archer to come and get us (especially since 1: they need 2, 2: they might not have a good yield near, 3: some people are on different continents.

Also checking in

 

[Jabah]

Checking in as a (dedicated) lurker.

One advantage of NNE (compare to NE) is that you could have 2 improved food very quickly (both seafood) without having to clean any tile.

Probably need some calculation to see if it is better to get a worker while researching fishing, then get out 2 quick WB.
After you could spam workers fast to clean then improve the mess (which must be quite slow, I can't remember the normal time -without tech boosted worker- to clean a tile), then spam settler and slave what ever you need.

NE gains a dry (for a very long time) and radiocative rice vs losing a tasty clean fish, plus it wastes a forrest instead of using a useless toundra (edit plain in fact).

Jabah

 

[Twinkletoes89]

I agree with Jabah on the strength of NNE as the speed of getting 2 food resources on line is so much greater. We would still be on a hill and gain both gold and 2 cows to clean up and work. The quicker 5 food tiles give us quicker future workers.

Only downside I see is that we would only be able to settle on turn 2 (counting start as Turn 0).

 

[Jabah]

From (one of) the initial post, it seems to be a basic (flat) plain (not toundra) so settling T1 should be possible (same as NE)

 

[regoarrarr]

So one problem is that not only do we not have any 3 hammer tiles, we don't even have any 2 hammer tiles (if we settle NE or N-NE).

So a workboat is going to take 15 turns. Probably not the best opening.

Not settling in place also denies us the ability to work the 2/1/1 spices which will probably cost us a turn on BW

 

[pocketbeetle]

How about going worker first, and straight away cleaning + mining a Gold hill while building workboats.

Gold ph is worth 3h/7c(?) when mined, and would speed us through AH (cows) and BW (slavery).

 

[Compromise]

I've parsed the map and Erkon's post about the starting position. No need for everyone to redo this process if they want to create a test map. Here's what we know from the initial screenshot (without fog-gazing):

C is coast
G is grassland
P is plains
H is hills
F is forest
Des is desert
Lines are the river
Fish, Clam, Cow, Gld, Rice, Silk are obvious
Also Fallout

  [s]GH[/s]       C     CFish     C       C       C
                
 Lake     [s]Des[/s] |  [s]PHGld[/s]    [s]GCow[/s]     P     CClam     C  
              |
  [s]GH[/s]      [s]Des[/s] |    GF    [s]PHGld[/s]     GF     [s]GCow[/s]     C
              |
  [s]?[/s]       PF  |    [s]G[/s]       GF      [s]G[/s]       [s]PH[/s]      C
              \---------------
  C     [s]GSilk[/s]    GSlkF     [s]PH[/s]      GF    [s]GRice[/s]     C

  C       [s]PH[/s]       [s]P[/s]      PHF      [s]GH[/s]      C       C

  C        C       C       C       [s]G[/s]       C

                           C       C       C

But now, I've spent my available Civ time until tonight. I plan to whip up a test map tonight, but I'd encourage others to do the same.

Edit: Also, on normal speed, scrubbing fallout is a 6T operation for a worker. Mining is 4T.

 

[regoarrarr]

Edit: Also, on normal speed, scrubbing fallout is a 6T operation for a worker. Mining is 4T.

Are you sure?

From http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/strategy/completeguide1.php

it appears to be 4t