SGOTM 15 - Maple Sporks

pigswill · Apr 24, 2012

Answers for sturick.
1)Yes. To the north of babylonia.
2) Don't know, didn't really check.
3) Yes. Egypt has coast to the east, 1-2 tile gap to the north connecting to Mongolia. Axe is heading south.
4)No.

CS gives bureau which is ok, maces which may be useful and chain irrigation for a specialist economy.

nocho · Apr 24, 2012

I'm fine if you play a couple of turns more, pigswill. We'll only have to get clear when we DoW Hammu. Now, like Sengir proposes or in a couple of turns. DG could spit out a pike in 1 turn, so maybe we can declare next turn.

As we don't need marble and stone for now, we could sell them for some gpt. Keep an eye on trading away old techs like med and lit when there's a bit more cash available.

I'd hire a couple of specs in Kyoto. Possibly hire a priest or engineer in stone hill.

I also prefer CS over feud. And would probably go nat next. Vassalage won't get us to lvl4. Not sure about PS. A short stint might be useful, but not only do we lose the beakers, also the loss of 3 happy in our 5 largest cities will be felt.

Norvin_Green · Apr 25, 2012

I'm not so sure we have enough to declare on Hammu yet especially as our troops will be on a flat tile when moved into Hammu territory. Of course, will the Ai attack our stack is another story. Hammu is also out of Buddhism so maybe we won't take a big diplo hit.

pigswill · Apr 25, 2012

Ze War Plan

Current dispositions:
Tokyo: 5 axes (4CR), GG medic spear, spear, 2 cats, xbow en route.
North West Frontier: 6 axe, 2 xbow, 2 spear, 11 cats.

Babylon stack (2 tiles distant): WE, 2 HA, 2 sword, axe, 2 char, 7 cat.

Switch to vassalage, police state now.

HEcity pike next turn, move to front next turn, declare on Babylon, hope they suicide against forted stack (do forts protect cats from flanking?).

Move Tokyo's CR axes and GG west (we get another GG after 1 combat).

Settle GG in HE city (lvl3 units running OR).

Reinforce Tokyo from Osaka and Kyoto.

Grow HE city, capital, grow and run specs in Kyoto, whip the rest for trebs, swords, pikes for 5 turns.

After five turns switch from police state to rep (?OR), run scientists where possible.

Edit: completion deadline for the game is May 21, we'd better start speeding up.

nocho · Apr 25, 2012

Vassalage comes with feud, no?

Do I understand you stay in the fort when dowing? Not sure if hammu will suicide, but might work. Or not.

Alternatively we wait for 2 or 3 pikes and move in immediately after dow.

sturick · Apr 25, 2012

I would not swap to Police State...but if it is only for five turns then I suppose it might be worth it. Please check to ensure our larger cities won't go into unhappiness with the civics swap. That would defeat the purpose if we lose the hammers that we gain with lost citizens.

I would DOW and hope for a suicide. I fear the jumbos out in the open and if they can be dealt with easily like this it is worth it. If not, we lose a turn. Opportunity cost seems worth it.

Please be sure to promote our stack defenders before the DOW. Like our spears/pikes to Combat II (on the way to formation) and our xbows (not sure what promos to use here...probably Combat II here as well. You can save the promos on swords and axes for when you attack the cities.

Good luck pigswill!

pigswill · Apr 26, 2012

Played another 5 turns up to 900ad.

Swopped to theocracy and police state 800ad.

Declared on Ham 820ad. he didn't suicide against fort or attack us in open but holed up in Mari. Bombardment, attack, yadda yadda. Mari captured 880ad and stack annihilated, lost 5 cats and 4 axes (Ham started whipping LBs). Units healing. Medic GG arrives next turn.

GG settled as MI in Deergold.

Built 2 xbows, 5 pikes, 2 swords and 10 trebs. 3 swords and treb complete next round.

Next GP due in 2 turns iirc.

We can change civics this round if we want to (maybe rep/theo?).

Genghis demanded we convert to Buddhism, declined.

Egypt and Persia still at war, traded one egyptian city.

Sold lit to mansa for 50g, med to cyrus for 40g.

Save uploaded and copied:http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm15/Maple_Sporks_SG015_AD0900_01.CivBeyondSwordSave

edit: Babylon is an isolated peninsula with a 2 city island to the south. Babylon also has Glight and Colossus so a navy may be worth considering.

sturick · Apr 26, 2012

Well done pigswill.

I think aside from suiciding his stack, holing up was the next best option. Hopefully, our trebs will make quick work of his longbows.

I would be happy with finishing off the peninsula assuming that the Glight and Colossus aren't on that small island. We can always take the island later if we need to for conquest.

Looking forward to checking the save out.

pigswill · Apr 26, 2012

Its worth considering that island cities will count as overseas trade routes (as well as polishing off Ham and not having restless natives).

nocho · Apr 26, 2012

Thanks pigswill!

Norvin is up and will present a nice plan before the weekend is over.

Seriously though, less than a month to go, so we should pick up the pace a bit.

Although quite possible, Babylon may not be on a peninsula. East from Sippar the land could connect towards the English.

At full speed CS would take 4 turns now, but we don't have the cash for it. So a switch to rep for now is good, maces asap will be good. Looking at that awesome powergraph of PD I do think we might switch back to PS after that however. We need loads of units, as we should also prepare for Egypt. We shouldn't declare much later than when Hammu is gassed out (when we take Babylon). Maybe a temporary peace at that point for his techs could be an option.

If we pop a GPr I'd build the shrine, I'd burn either GE or GS on a GA.

I think the current spy should check Sippar and I would build a few more spies to scout through Mongolia and England. We still have to track down where everybody lives.

Norvin_Green · Apr 27, 2012

Proposed plan:

Switch back to Rep to speed up CS.

StoneHill builds sword>pike>xbow>mace
GoldenFleece sword>forge>trebs
PearlySwine sword>wealth (hires scientist)
MarbleHill treb>swords>maces
CowCamp mish>swords (hire engineer & priest too)
DeerGold *trebs
Osaka xbow>forge>trebs
Satsuma pike>*mish
Kyoto market>spy
Tokyo rax>forge>maces (takes copper from Kyoto)
Mari (pray it disappears?) - wealth - I wouldn't even send a mish here as it has no food to grow. When we take Borsippa it can have the rice until Borsippa comes out of revolt but then that's it.

Thought maybe we'd bulb Paper with GS to try for UoS (for :science:

) but seeing as several Ai's have paper already and are stone is unavailable for 6 more turns I would just settle in Kyoto.

Keep pressing on against Hammu. Haven't spotted his ivory yet but hopefully it's in Sippar. After Borsippa head for Babylon next with GLH and Colossus.

Tokyo

pigswill · Apr 27, 2012

Regretfully disagree with plan: we ain't going to need many swords or maces, trebs will do 90% of the work, other units just mop up. We'll lose some trebs in the process so I'd let the queued swords finish then switch to trebs and garrison archers.
I also think that we've got most of our stack built so it might be an idea, particularly if we go back to rep, to prioritise scientists and food to get to CS asap.

nocho · Apr 27, 2012

I would agree that the main focus is on trebs, but a bunch of maces after CS are okay.

I really really think we could use a GA by now. I don't think settling nor bulbing paper will really pay off.

Build/whip a spy in Tokyo too.

Sengir · Apr 27, 2012

I'd like to see more siege as well, rather then more troops. Some maces will be nice though.

And a GA will be stronger then bulbing/settling IMHO.

sturick · Apr 27, 2012

Perhaps to achieve that happy balance of trebs to maces to archers you should build archers naturally in the medium hammer cities. In the low hammer cities you can 2 pop whip trebs and maces fairly easily. The high hammer cities (DG/Stone Hill) can build trebs and maces naturally without the use of the whip.

Civics: Swap to Rep immediately - Swap to Bureau as soon as we get CS - stay in slavery/Theo

I'm with the gang on getting a Golden Age with a GS, shrine for GP, GA with the engineer is fine too. Without looking at the save I don't know for sure if a GP or GEng are possible or not.

I'm a bit torn here...if we are going for Nat right after CS then saving a GEng to rush the Taj delays our GA a bit but we take a GA away from Liz. Keeping her in check will help us out later. If we get Paper somehow (say in peace from Hammu :devil:

), rushing the U of S would provide a solid boost to our science rate that is worth considering. Not a guarantee to get that though with many civs knowing Paper already.

I would also go easy on the missionaries. We probably would only need them in the best captured cities. Thebes and Babylon come to mind. Waste of hammers for the lesser/halfway decent cities.

Norvin_Green · Apr 28, 2012

Revised plan looks like this:
StoneHill, MarbleHill, CowCamp, DeerGold on trebs until CS arrives in 8 turns then half maces/half trebs
Golden Fleece – I’d like to go forge and after Osaka grows next turn steal the corn back to start using those mines sooner. Build a forge here and then join the treb building fiesta.
PearlySwine finishes sword>archer
Osaka finishes xbow>forge
Satsuma finishes pike>archer
Kyoto gives up copper to Tokyo keeps working on market (farm as much as possible)
Tokyo slips in a spy>rax>forge
Mari wealth
Western spy tries to reach Sippar to see about any land connection that way.
Spy from Tokyo heads through Egypt to explore Genghis land.
Stack heals and heads for Borsippa then Babylon.
Use GS or GE for a GAge and GP for shrine.
After a round or two of units and assessing progress against Hammu hopefully will start to send units eastward in preparation for Hatty invasion.

nocho · Apr 28, 2012

Sounds fine. The archers are for CG in conquered cities?

At some near point I think Kyoto should take the corn to hire more specs.

Best of luck!

pigswill · Apr 28, 2012

If we're swopping back to rep then hiring some scientists will speed up CS.

Norvin_Green · Apr 29, 2012

Made the switch to Rep dropping CS from 19 turns to 9. With a hired GS or two that drops to 8.

Turn 1 - we vote for ourselves for the AP. UoS is built somewhere and someone pops a GE.

Turn 2 - Versailles is built somewhere and we get a shrine.

Turn 3 - lose our exploring wb to a Babylonian trireme.

Turn 4 - Cyrus asks for help in the battle against Hatty. Ask us in about 10 turns, bub.

Turn 5 - take Borsippa (lost one axe)

CS is in - didn't swap as maybe we want other civics - slotted in Nat as a placeholder. Same thing in several cities. Maybe it's time for some CH's here and there.

Save

Norvin_Green · Apr 29, 2012

Here is your Session Turn Log from 900 AD to 1020 AD:

Spoiler :

SGOTM 15 - Maple Sporks

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