SGOTM 21 Pre-Announcement Discussion Thread

[Folket]

Well, revealing starting erea has been done. Let us reveal the whole map.

 

[BLubmuz]

Is it evil enough to be a scenario?

Masochist, more than evil

The only thing i like is Space and a city size 25.

Starting area? yes, reveal it.

 

[kcd_swede]

modern era start... always peace game. if you don't do it, i will.

 

[Folket]

Always peace. I like.

 

[WastinTime]

Always peace. I like.

Always Peace, Conquest victory was fun and unusual in a past GotM. I was the only one that chose that victory condition tho.

 

[BSPollux]

Would you play a game where you and the AI start with several cities and units?

 

[Folket]

I would yes. Perhaps monarch with all AIs starting with 4 cities and 4 extra HAs.

 

[Fippy]

Going lower than Immortal i would consider a huge step back..
It's difficult making AIs challenging for the top teams on Imm. already.
Deity could be too hard for half of our teams, but if maps or settings do not work on Imm. then there's something wrong with them.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Unlike BOTMs, SGOTMs have always been designed so that all teams can win and rightly so. That inevitably means that top teams aren't challenged by the AIs. I think it behooves one to adjust one's expectations and take on the challenge of fastest finish, that is, a competition between the SG teams rather than against the AIs.

 

[Noble Zarkon]

Going lower than Immortal i would consider a huge step back..
It's difficult making AIs challenging for the top teams on Imm. already.

The challenge in SGOTM / BOTM / HoF etc is the other teams / players etc not the AI surely. I think Immortal might frighten off some players.

x-post with LC

 

[Fippy]

Oh i agree, it's team vs. team but most still want an interesting game against AIs as well.
Last one was too easy (and Immortal), so i just struggle seeing what Emp. or even lower can do for us. Teams are stronger than single players, a group of ~Monarch players could easily win Immortal together esp. cos you usually get 1 higher level player joining.

So what's the goal with dropping diff.?
Frightened players? Makes not much sense for me, team spirit raises with challenges.
And frightened about..? They know they will not be as fast as teams like TSR or Ducks anyways, no reason to be scared of anything.

 

[Noble Zarkon]

Teams are stronger than single players, a group of ~Monarch players could easily win Immortal together esp. cos you usually get 1 higher level player joining.

So what's the goal with dropping diff.?
Frightened players? Makes not much sense for me, team spirit raises with challenges.
And frightened about..? They know they will not be as fast as teams like TSR or Ducks anyways, no reason to be scared of anything.

I agree with everything you say - but I think people don't understand that until they join, it's about getting them through the door first ...

 

[LowtherCastle]

@Fippy: I think people generally agree with you that we all want the game to be challenging. When someone calls for a step back from Immortal, what I'm hearing is that the last SG was a little more than than that player was able to handle enjoyably.

Note that game designers have been gradually raising the difficulty to match the increasing strength of all players. Early on, CIV SGs were never higher than Monarchy. Still, game designers have to err on the side of caution.

 

[pigswill]

Is an easy immortal map harder than a difficult emperor map?

 

[Packers5280]

I think that My's recent "is this winnable" maps prove that a difficult Emperor map can be harder than an easy or medium Immortal map. I think an Emperor map with no slavery would much more difficult than the last SGOTM. Of course, all those resources made the last map much easier than if there weren't that many.

An idea I've been thinking about is a map where we have to ensure a certain AI survives, such as Gandhi, when the certain AI is surrounded by warmongers that hate the certain AI. Maybe even handicap that AI, no strategic resources, and all the warmongers have some very close by.

 

[Gumbolt]

If you are dropping the difficulty level try not to nerf the AI too much. Most teams were done by 1200ad this game. Probably partly helped by AI starting with warriors, workers to steal and easy Ai targets. It's quite easy to make an emperor Ai quite strong if you really wanted to. Finanical Ai with 1-2 gold resources. Alter starting techs too.

How many have actually stated they would join if difficulty was 1 level lower?? If lots more sign up then fair enough. If only 2-3 want to join existing teams then perhaps stick with immortal. I am all for getting 2-3 more teams if possible. Also important to keep existing players too.

I don't mind the concept of starting with more cities or more settlers/units at start. I think letting teams choose cities is quite important to make each game different. Ai with 3 settlers and player with 2 settlers? Pends how much you want to mix it up. Not all Ai need to start with the same number/strength of units.

Be aware of the possibility of players gifting cities with lots of settlers/cities at start.

 

[lymond]

An idea I've been thinking about is a map where we have to ensure a certain AI survives, such as Gandhi, when the certain AI is surrounded by warmongers that hate the certain AI. Maybe even handicap that AI, no strategic resources, and all the warmongers have some very close by.

I like this idea, Pack, or at least variations on the theme. Basically some inter-connectivity or codependency with AI(s). Seems something like that has been done before, but I forget...or I'm thinking of xOTMs. You have to be careful though that the objectives are at least reasonably attainable/achieved by anyone and not affected to much be randomness (i.e., in your scenario, Gandhi could be dead before anyone has a chance to do anything about it or has a Buddhist lovefest going on with the warmongers in another game)

 

[enKage]

I like dropping difficulty a little, but compensated by weak starting positions or same serious limits for us.
+ strong rivals.

 

[Deckhand]

... Basically some inter-connectivity or codependency with AI(s). ...

FYI, the scenario planned for SG21 has some of this.

Spoiler :

Not spoiling anything that wouldn't be described in the announcement thread.

 

[Folket]

That makes me wonder if putting a city on top of a mountain would allow units to move over the mountain.