Shoshone Deity Huge Empire Challenge Series!

cool! Looking nice! And yes, hilarious. :D You were kinda asking for it settling your cities so far apart though haha.

order+liberty is good for supporting a large empire. Any science synergy is purely brute force, and yeah it's generally considered inferior to freedom, however, on a huge map it gets a bit stronger. Looks like a fun game, jealous of that sweet jungle. :)

What is the NQ mod again? is that just to improve terrain or does it change other stuff up as well? I've heard a few ppl mention it...
 
danaphanous said:
What is the NQ mod again? is that just to improve terrain or does it change other stuff up as well? I've heard a few ppl mention it...
Click to expand...

I've never tried it myself, it's meant for the 'No Quitters' MP group on Steam I think NQ Change list lots of changes, may have to try it sometime.

Agree with Poxpower, I tried the same huge map you (danaphanous) are playing but as Shoshone (and emperor, not deity, should have played higher) and it was a massive slog. Got a cultural victory in the end but had to sail around the world and conquer Persia to get a win after many hours of play time.

Spoiler :
The true start positions is fun but it means loads of potential civs in West Europe (as you have seen!), which cripples the AI in that they are too packed together to expand. In my game, No Portugal, but Spain, Celts, England, Austria, Byzantium, Carthage, Rome, Ottomans, Persia, (maybe Russia?). In Asia, Japan. Who never settled off their own islands... all of east Asia was empty; as there were no Mongols/China/Siam. America had Me, Iroquois (killed very early with CB rush), and Inca (killed with XB rush). So I look forward with interest to see who has spawned on the American continent in your game, if it was just the Iroquois look forward to saying 'hello' to Hiawatha's 40 city empire ;)
 
danaphanous said:
What is the NQ mod again? is that just to improve terrain or does it change other stuff up as well? I've heard a few ppl mention it...
Click to expand...

It rebalances almost every aspect of the game.
For instance, for Indonesia, you don't need to settle cities on another continent to get the new lux bonus, making Indonesia one of the best civs in the game, instead of one of the most terrible ones.

It also nerfs some civs like Poland and Babylon ( Babylon gets academy at Philosophy instead of writing, and spain only get 100 gold from finding wonders instead of 500 for being first ).

There's also many new pantheons to choose from, all fairly balanced.

They also reworked the policies to nerf tradition and rationalism and to greatly boost exploration, piety and honor.

Research Agreements are also disabled in NQ mod.

https://www.reddit.com/r/nqmod/

On the whole I don't think it makes the game easier or harder, just opens up more strategies. It's mostly a multiplayer balance mod but it works for single player too.

Anyway.
Yah. Damn AI, I knew they'd settle a city in there at some point, but they're just so damn bold lol. She just slammed that garbage city in the middle of my roads, despite having declaration of friendship. I bought all the tiles around her dumb city eventually, which of course prompted her to demand I cease encroaching on her lands haha.
Just legendary how bad the AI is with expanding. Absolutely no consideration of strategic positioning of their cities, they will settle any city anywhere at any time.
 
I love to play wide liberty and a huge map is great for it ( I had a 9 city NC on turn 87 here, and my cities are super spread out ) but the loading time in the later game is just too tedious.

Attila was sitting on over 30 cities, Napoleon 23... lol
Kind of makes playing the game all the way through sort of unfun, though I could already tell around turn 180 that I had won anyway, I was just curious to see how fast, but it crashed on me. Booo.

Shoshone and Korea doubled warred me TWICE before turn 100 lol. Idiots, they didn't send units at me.
Napoleon backstabbed me twice in that game too. Again, sent no units.

America almost got one of my expands but he peaced out the turn before he actually could take my city. He employed the usual deity AI strategy of making 20 melee units and just slamming them into a city. He doesn't care if he loses 10 minutemen to take a 3 pop city on turn 150 haha.

On a huge map, there is definitely the added challenge that you WILL get attacked by the AI for expanding too fast early on ( if you go for a huge empire ) so that is interesting. If someone like shaka, attila or montezuma is next to you, it might not be so easy to defend because the expantionist negative modifier seems to count as much as if you had backstabbed that civ 10 times lol
 
poxpower said:
Shoshone and Korea doubled warred me TWICE before turn 100 lol. Idiots, they didn't send units at me.
Napoleon backstabbed me twice in that game too. Again, sent no units.

America almost got one of my expands but he peaced out the turn before he actually could take my city. He employed the usual deity AI strategy of making 20 melee units and just slamming them into a city. He doesn't care if he loses 10 minutemen to take a 3 pop city on turn 150 haha.

On a huge map, there is definitely the added challenge that you WILL get attacked by the AI for expanding too fast early on ( if you go for a huge empire ) so that is interesting. If someone like shaka, attila or montezuma is next to you, it might not be so easy to defend because the expantionist negative modifier seems to count as much as if you had backstabbed that civ 10 times lol
Click to expand...

yeah it's crazy, you need a nice computer. It doesn't run badly at all on mine. Recording at the same time sometimes produces a little lag and between turns can get up towards 2 minutes at the very end, but it seemed playable enough and worth it to me at least just because of how different it all is. Sorry it seemed a slog to you guys, certainly is for cultural/war victories!

On huge maps the AI likes to declare wars but can't project any threat due to how far away they are from the target. It's hilarious. :D And yeah, the reckless expander modifier is bad. Although I got it with portugal on YNAEMP with only 4 cities with Rome. They not only had more then me, I was settling Africa LATE! Very strange. On a liberty game you are guaranteed early hate and aggression for it which means always settle that closest likely target city in easy to defend terrain!

Part 7 is out. Slow episode but interesting from a military tactics standpoint. Songhai pulled off a brilliant maneuver that got around my defense setup. Very surprising. Had to stop NC to produce an additional trireme and replace a pillaged TR and everything! Fighting songhai is very interesting as portugal due to war canoes promo. Every other AI I can destroy with ease since they embark so much to reach my cities but songhai is like my own personal nightmare. :D Loving this war so much.

Songhai tries a new tactic this episode, probably by accident. His triple-trireme invasions have been ineffective due to my blockade of the straights with my own triremes which I rush-produced to protect shipping lanes when the fleet suddenly arrived. Even fortified in my own territory though 2 triremes couldn't hold it so I had put 4 archers as covering fire within range to finish off the triremes so I wouldn't have to unfortify. And his melee assaults upon my hilltop road-reinforced northern morrocan coast have all died to the same withering archer fire and spearman strikes for finishing. It worked great for a little bit. But this episode he started embarking strong melee like a swordsman under the triremes. This normally would be a bad tactic but his war canoes promo means he can embark against my archers and do more then half their health with ease. He followed up with Mandekalu strikes and pikemen. I saw it coming and withdrew the closest archers and fortified a spearman and he immediately used the opportunity to launch the largest naval invasion yet to break the blockade now that I couldn't cover the navy. And the worst part? The triremes never end...somehow crappy little Porto can make them every 2 turns AND they surprised me with 5 movement as well, randomly breaking the blockade with a sliver of health to perfectly pillage the incoming northern trade ship. Stupid Deity AI military discounts xD. And I must have missed him taking the Great Lighthouse or something because I counted and he moved 5 hexes pulling off a TR pillage I thought would be impossible when I was viewing the battlefield the previous turn. I also am forced to sacrifice a 2-promo composite from the old-war days. He shouldn't have died but the AI keeps spamming 50-hp recoveries to do more damage then I'm anticipating occasionally. :)

Can we beef up our defenses to prevent this in the future? I think we can, gg Songhai, best AI fight I've ever had. If I can hold the line with some reinforcements I think this is the perfect opportunity to garner loads of experience. At this rate I may well have logistics and range to retake porto and 3-promotions of my trireme defenders by turn 140 or so. Then I can return the favor and deal out some pain! :D

Part 7: 2-Turn Triremes
 
Thanks, it's been my favorite game I've ever played so far! Probably because playing normally is pretty impossible. It's fun to be challenged! But I think we are hitting a turning point! Today in rebuilding we really start to get some nice infrastructure down including the NC, an additional trireme for the fleet, our first market, and some growth buildings in Braga! I have the feeling that if we can keep the tenuous peace in the Mediterranean going for trade ships we'll be accelerating our science and progress quite soon and catching up with neighbors! :)

Part 8: Rebuilding
 
Things are looking up with the NC finished, a 3rd trade route, techs to steal, and civil service finished! However, Songhai won't leave us alone and launches another major assault on our last African city. Can we hold the line and not lose our highly leveled troops this time?

I think I literally spent abotu 2 minutes just staring at a battlefield this episode, trying to make sure I made the best possible defensive moves...so sorry about that. At least I remembered to talk! :D

Part 9: Desperate Defense
 
In a fit of mutual suicide our ally block of Austria, Byzantium, and Ottomans all denounce the Russians and Rome, the two most powerful and advanced nations nearby. Some of them may not be around much longer and we may need new friends xD. Hopefully they don't drag me into more trouble!

Part 10: League of Extraordinary Idiots
 
Not sure yet if our allies are into suicide or may have success, but a coalition towards the Romans starts this episode. Austria has been at war in the past, Ottomans join, Byzantium joins, Byzantium also befriends Songhai and they continue their relentless assault, not even willing to consider peace after 60 turns of battle. Meanwhile all Roman, Spanish, and Byzantium trade routes vanish from our cities and rome starts trading with the terrible 4-pop songhai colony rather then my huge capital, they also start moving troops exploratorily through our territory! The Mediterranean is eerily quiet on my side, but I can't help but wonder if I'm the next target. As far as science, happiness, infrastructure, and economy our little 3-city empire is doing great with universities right around the corner, and we do manage to make some new friends far away as we buddy up to a strong India!

Part 11: All Alone
 
Did you not notice what Gao/Songhai were building when you stole 'Steel' from them (about 2:55 on video)? I'd be building more than one galleas now :eek:

Rome might be helping you out by their city spam in Africa, maybe blocking some Songhai units? Or maybe Songhai is fighting someone else as well, Zulu??

Your gold income is good, but remember you are in a golden age still I think. Good fun.

Edit: Also whats every ones tourism score now, China is influential over someone already, if you get a culture/tourism leader in the east is that going to cause problems later on?
 
thanks, totally missed that! I expected it would happen soon though since I'd seen they were working on the military techs on the bottom of the tree. In fact those musketmen show up this episode! I beelined crossbows expecting it and they should be a good counter to them, especially now that a few have logistics! I have some theories about why Songhai is acting the way he is. I think he might also be at war with Zulu to the south due to the fact that I keep seeing him send galleas south. I muse on it this episode. And yeah, my gold will dip a bit soon but early academy from the buy and the extra science in the meantime made borrowing totally worth it as long as I can stay afloat! :D

I will check tourism again soon. China is the leader by a huge margin, but they are dominating over weak cultures. Hopefully the spread of monastaries and me getting my own early works will help some, but they may overpower us anyway despite my cultural focus this game because we have so few cities. If they do, it'll limit my choices, freedom may not be possible as I was hoping. We'll see!

For this episode: Our spies and scouts reveal the world leaders are already industrialized! Meanwhile we're just entering the Renaissance...We finally get crossbows but the Songhai begin to mount a major new assault with musketmen! What can we do to turn this game around?

Part 13: Industrialized Foes...
 
Not sure that India has reached industrial era, possible that one of his knights got a goody hut upgrade to cavalry on an isolated island?

I think that songhai must be fighting someone else, I said Zulus before because I am not sure what other civs spawn in Africa...

Didn't realise that the 'Nau' would pull back from combat, as you said that could be a major problem if you upgrade:(

I think you said you are going this anyway but upgrade to range on your 2/3 logistics XBs then take back Porto with them and a few hits from your galleases & make peace, is that the plan?

It would be very good if Rome got so weakened by attacks from Austria and Byzantium you could swoop in and take it with a Nau/trireme but I don't see that happening anytime soon :)

Edit: And if you loose a worker when worker baiting goes wrong and can't safely recapture them, always feather them with a few arrows/quarrels it's all XP for your units
 
oh I didn't think about the ruin upgrades. Is that sort of thing possible for industrial units?

I WILL retake porto! It would've been next episode for sure judging by my experience bars on the new crossbows and the fact that they can actually take a few hits now, but if that force I spotted in the Sahara is large (and I'm sure it is a big invasion) I may have to delay a bit and pull back some forces to that side. Good call on those roads ages ago! Technically I could've taken Porto a while back but not without sacrificing most of my force and Songhai would have easily retaken it, so it wouldn't have been a good move till I knew enough of my force would survive to hold the city.

I find it funny that Songhai still won't even "talk" about peace and we've been fighting for 80 turns and I've killed over 100 of his units! (I tried talking to him again about 20 turns ago) He's just replacing them so fast even my pretty nice force looks terribly weak to him. So there's really nothing to do but perma-war until he sees reason. No chance for expansion. Anything I'd put in africa away from those mountains would've been crushed ages ago like porto, and now Rome has eaten them all up. I think if I see the chance I'll definitely take a roman city or two. On a map this big it will be hard to win even with 4-city tradition. This is due to the tech penalty that makes techs on huge 20% more expensive. Hard to beat more cities. ;) Plus my Iberian cities will stop growing soon so I need something else to put energy into. If we can find the spots or conquer them, 6-city tradition max growth and science might give me a chance...I can always count on the AI to be really slow during the space race lol since they don't save scientists and do things out of order. :)
 
I think the game notifies you when a civ enters a certain era.
Yes, upgrade ruins work on post-ancient era units (but each unit can only get 1 upgrade ruin)
 
alright thanks guys. I think I've just never played a map big enough for this to happen. You are probably right it was a ruin. Military Science is an unusual first choice anyway. I'll keep an eye out for the announcement!

So...new episode...sort of. I recorded for 18 minutes, including a quick world recap, then had a crash. Realized it crashed literally right before autosaving. I had it on 5 turns and it crashed on 4.5 lol. It being late tonight I decided to just cut it into a short episode. I don't have the time to play up 5 turns again exactly the same way, then set up recording again...etc. It's getting late tonight and I got a lot of work tomorrow. Enjoy what you get till the weekend! :D

In this short episode we launch our planned invasion of porto with the brand new logistics crossbows, the city looks like it'll fall but at the exact same time a huge Songhai force with musketmen crosses the desert to attack Braga! This episode is a bit shorter then usual because after recording for almost 5 turns and doing a recap my recording crashed! And right as the Songhai main army arrived!

I've set autosave to 1 turn now just in case this big map has more crashes in store for me!

Part 14: Saharan Assault!
 
So I tried something with NQ mod and exploration tree.
I was at 32 cities with polynesia before basically getting bored lol.

In NQ mod, the exploration tree is completely different. First there is a policy that makes it so a new city starts with 3 pop, a worker and a "governor's mansion" that gives +2 happiness. Then there is a policy that gives +1 happiness from lighthouse.
The finisher makes it so you get +1 happiness from luxuries and each plain water tile now has 2food, 1 hammer, 1 gold base yield. Lighthouse makes it 3f,2h,1g

So basically any city anywhere is an amazing city on an Island map lol.

With the proper policies and religious beliefs ( or with Ghandi ) you can have the stupidest population and wide empire of all time. I was around 800 pop in my empire before stopping and I had long since stopped planting cities because it was too tedious.

Anyway the exploration tree is still garbage because it unlocks at medieval era, so basically all your planting is turn 100+ which is not competitive at all, but you like.. SUPER late game is hilarious. Was making 4500 beakers per turn without working scientists in most cities or having build all science buildings for instance :p
4 turn for the latest techs.
 
yikes, that's one big empire! I can imagine how crazy exploration tree is with those new NQ mod policies. That would make flat water great! :D

So, back with more episodes in Iberian Rivalry. Songhai is still refusing to so much as talk and has launched the latest in a long series of massive invasions. This one is definitely the worst yet and I think it'll go on for a couple episodes at least haha! :D TONS of muskets crossing the desert now. I've dubbed the assault "Operation Desert Storm". I look forward to crushing it! :D Oh and this time several people make it into the industrial era for real, so they weren't too far off, but you guys were right, must've been a ruin upgrade earlier. :)

Part 15: Operation Desert Storm
 
The war for Braga is raging and Songhai shows no signs of relenting. We bring Braga back from the red with some smart defensive maneuvers and are off to explore America! And possibly even be the founders of the world congress! :D

Part 16: World Congress Race
 
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