So Crazy It Might Work: Elohim/Illian Gambit

[KillerClowns]

Untested, but I intend to try this some time, if only because it'd be fun. Tell me if I'm insane or not.
As I recall, the Elohim can perform Illian rituals in captured Elohim cities. I was just thinking of a mad scheme that's a bit specific, and not universally applicable, but could work. As the Elohim, you conquer the Illian empire. You pick the best production city they have and designate it the ritual city, as an Illian player would. You stock it full of every bonus you can muster, the Celestial Compass, et cetera, as an Illian would. (But with bonus points if you own a Sidar palace, and possibly extra Great Engineers and Prophets through Philosophical.) You start working on the Draw, but don't finish it until you have Omniscience, again as an Illian would. Then, when you finish the Draw, you use one of the following methods:

1. Sacrifice Corindale or use the Seven Pines. Peace and love all the way. Enough said. Even the Illians can use this trick, albeit typically only the Seven Pines version. Being Elohim just makes it easier.

2. This is why it's the Elohim/Illian gambit. No Seven Pines, and fond of your extra Archmage? Hit Sanctuary. Your armies are injured, and you're at war with everyone... but you get 30 turns of being left in peace to complete Auric's Ascension. 1,200 hammers is a hefty load, but you've got at a head start. Meaning you can have Auric up and running before the wall falls if you manage a very difficult, but IIRC not technically impossible, 40 hammers a turn. Even if not, 30 turns is a nice head start to ready your army for defense when the dam breaks and only have to survive a few turns before getting Auric. And there's always Corindale if things look a bit too rough...

But wait, it may just get better! (Probably not, but maybe.) Xienwolf's manual says the Godslayer is given to the non-Illian with the highest score. Is that a minor mistake in the manual, or have Elohim lawyers found a loophole in the Compact itself?

 

[MagisterCultuum]

for iLoopPlayer in range(gc.getMAX_PLAYERS()):
				pLoopPlayer = gc.getPlayer(iLoopPlayer)
				if pLoopPlayer.isAlive():
					if pLoopPlayer.getTeam() != pPlayer.getTeam():
						iValue = CyGame().getSorenRandNum(500, "Ascension")
						if pLoopPlayer.isHuman():
							iValue += 2000
						iValue += (20 - CyGame().getPlayerRank(iLoopPlayer)) * 50
						if iValue > iBestValue:
							iBestValue = iValue
							iBestPlayer = iLoopPlayer
			if iBestPlayer != -1:
				pBestPlayer = gc.getPlayer(iBestPlayer)
				pBestCity = pBestPlayer.getCapitalCity()
				if pBestPlayer.isHuman():
					iEvent = CvUtil.findInfoTypeNum(gc.getEventTriggerInfo, gc.getNumEventTriggerInfos(),'EVENTTRIGGER_GODSLAYER')
					triggerData = gc.getPlayer(iBestPlayer).initTriggeredData(iEvent, true, -1, pBestCity.getX(), pBestCity.getY(), iBestPlayer, -1, -1, -1, -1, -1)
				else:
					pBestPlayer.initUnit(gc.getInfoTypeForString('EQUIPMENT_GODSLAYER'), pBestCity.getX(), pBestCity.getY(), UnitAITypes.NO_UNITAI, DirectionTypes.DIRECTION_SOUTH)

They don't get around the Compact. The civilization isn't taken into account, it just won't go to someone on the same team as whoever completed the ritual (including that civs permanent allies). If the Illians aren't the ones to finish the ritual, they could get the Godslayer.

 

[Keeper_GFA]

What if the Illians are still in the game too, and they ascend Auric as well? Would there be two Godslayers?

 

[GeeJo]

It's a world project, so only one team can complete it.

 

[xilr]

Well, I did just this in one of my games. I played Elohim and happened to have seven pines near me (Corindale was on standby). You get AA and Birthright Regained at the same time.... My game plan was to complete the draw right after birthright regained... When the new sanctuary was about to fade, I hit the seven pines and presto peace while finishing off the AA ritual.

Then I discovered Auric isnt a hero, doesnt have blitz and wasnt really as good as Drifta for conquest anyways... I wept.

 

[KillerClowns]

for iLoopPlayer in range(gc.getMAX_PLAYERS()):
				pLoopPlayer = gc.getPlayer(iLoopPlayer)
				if pLoopPlayer.isAlive():
					if pLoopPlayer.getTeam() != pPlayer.getTeam():
						iValue = CyGame().getSorenRandNum(500, "Ascension")
						if pLoopPlayer.isHuman():
							iValue += 2000
						iValue += (20 - CyGame().getPlayerRank(iLoopPlayer)) * 50
						if iValue > iBestValue:
							iBestValue = iValue
							iBestPlayer = iLoopPlayer
			if iBestPlayer != -1:
				pBestPlayer = gc.getPlayer(iBestPlayer)
				pBestCity = pBestPlayer.getCapitalCity()
				if pBestPlayer.isHuman():
					iEvent = CvUtil.findInfoTypeNum(gc.getEventTriggerInfo, gc.getNumEventTriggerInfos(),'EVENTTRIGGER_GODSLAYER')
					triggerData = gc.getPlayer(iBestPlayer).initTriggeredData(iEvent, true, -1, pBestCity.getX(), pBestCity.getY(), iBestPlayer, -1, -1, -1, -1, -1)
				else:
					pBestPlayer.initUnit(gc.getInfoTypeForString('EQUIPMENT_GODSLAYER'), pBestCity.getX(), pBestCity.getY(), UnitAITypes.NO_UNITAI, DirectionTypes.DIRECTION_SOUTH)

They don't get around the Compact. The civilization isn't taken into account, it just won't go to someone on the same team as whoever completed the ritual (including that civs permanent allies). If the Illians aren't the ones to finish the ritual, they could get the Godslayer.

I figured it'd be like that... although in an especially bizarre set of circumstances, this could lead to the Illians getting the Godslayer and killing off their own god...

 

[PapaMonkey]

I agree that Auric is very bland. Without gaining any promotions, he lacks a bit of appeal. He heals very slowly in enemy lands (can't learn march). Has no first strikes (drill) so he is often weakened in a battle against fortified city units late game. He can't ever blitz enemies either. I found the best use for him was to team him with Drifta and have him stand on a peak blizzarding and then use a blitzing Drifta to kill all the wounded units. Optimally retreating back to a peak himself at the end of his turn.

My suggestion: open promotions to Auric. Represent this as his gaining mastery over his Material form...

 

[Imuratep]

Seconded. Auric has to be incredibly strong as you make tremendous efforts to get him. Like he is now he is a joke.

 

[Monkeyfinger]

AA has that ubered version of snowfall, which... well, put it this way. I'd rather have a strength 1 unit with that spell than a strength 60 unit without it. Especially when said unit can fly on top of a peak or lake, end his turn there, and be untouchable.

Also: It's worded that the ascension ritual can be built if ANYONE completes the draw. If this is true, the proper way to do it is to let the Illians complete the draw, declare on them, take a good production city, and start the ascansion there.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

I really liked xienwolf's idea of having a buildable Auric Aulvin hero so that he can gather up promotions that he will keep once he turns into a god.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I really liked xienwolf's idea of having a buildable Auric Ulvin hero so that he can gather up promotions that he will keep once he turns into a god.

Xienwolf's idea?

I'm pretty sure I proposed it before he did. The reason I didn't post the entire code for Ascension in my earlier response was because I had already changed it to convert Auric (who you must own in order to build the ritual) to Auric Ascended instead of just creating Auric Ascended. I didn't want to confuse you with code that does something different than advertised. (I also haven't gotten a chance to test it since I changed it. I have a lot of homework. Why am I still online instead of doing it?)

 

[Psycho_Ivan]

AA has that ubered version of snowfall, which... well, put it this way. I'd rather have a strength 1 unit with that spell than a strength 60 unit without it. Especially when said unit can fly on top of a peak or lake, end his turn there, and be untouchable.

What he said. With proper stack support, Auric wastes his foes. Few Champions, the Priests of Winter Auric and maybe Drifa and Wilboman makes for an INSANE stack strength.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

Xienwolf's idea?

don't get angry

I remembered it written by xienwolf. if you're the first one who suggested it, good for you. I like that idea

 

[MaxAstro]

What he said. With proper stack support, Auric wastes his foes. Few Champions, the Priests of Winter Auric and maybe Drifa and Wilboman makes for an INSANE stack strength.

The problem is that because he always defends the stack, Auric basically WILL die eventually. Not to mention the Godslayer will really ruin your day at some point. It just doesn't feel thematic for the Lord of Winter reborn, bringer of the endless snow, destroyer of life and nature, to be constantly hiding on top of peaks.

EDIT: It occurs to me that I wish Fireballs could pick up the Godslayer. That would be the most hilarious way to kill Auric EVER.

 

[Monkeyfinger]

It just doesn't feel thematic for the Lord of Winter reborn, bringer of the endless snow, destroyer of life and nature, to be constantly hiding on top of peaks.

I prefer to think of it as raining lethal amounts of destructive ice down from too high up for mortals to reach him.

Even demigods are risking their necks when they go down into the fray and don't use their full power. Fantasy's full of stories of beings like AA getting cocky, thinking they can take on ll of man's armies by themselves while holding back, and ending up dead.

Fireballs smack into AA's magic immunity.

 

[MaxAstro]

I prefer to think of it as raining lethal amounts of destructive ice down from too high up for mortals to reach him.

Even demigods are risking their necks when they go down into the fray and don't use their full power. Fantasy's full of stories of beings like AA getting cocky, thinking they can take on ll of man's armies by themselves while holding back, and ending up dead.

Fireballs smack into AA's magic immunity.

Wouldn't matter if a Fireball could hold the Godslayer; it would still kill him. Would be kind of appropriate in a way... Okay, I am so adding the ability for Fireballs to carry equipment to my modmod, just for humor value.

 

[deadliver]

I prefer to think of it as raining lethal amounts of destructive ice down from too high up for mortals to reach him.

Hey if you don't have to fight fair don't! I give Hyborem flying all the time and enjoy myself immensely.

@ Gekko I loved seeing the Auric Alvin unit in FF's WB and would like to see him make an appearance in FFH2 a la regicide. It would be cool actually if some but probably not all civs (I could not see Tebryn venturing out into harms way) had a king/queen unit that they could risk. I did this all the time in civ 3.

Make it a game option, you lose your leader unit, your LOSE! Course this could mean that even if you lost your cities, as long as your leader lived you could continue to fight on by capturing a city.
I know that the heroes kinda represent this concept ,but why not throw in more heroes? I mean whats wrong with more heroes/villains?

It is very dark fantasy to have an army falter or a cause fail because their leader's broken body has been thrown down from the battlements by their triumphant foe.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Tebryn will be resurrected every time he is killed, until the rune on Abashi's forehead is dispelled. No one has found any means of killing Os-Gabella, even though she herself has been searching for millennia.

I guess the Sheaim reasons are a good reason not to add a regicide game option. On the other hand, if defeating the unit doesn't mean killing it but taking it prisoner it could still make sense.

 

[deadliver]

Heh doesn't mean his resurrection is a pleasant process, after all he hated his experience in hell the first time...

Yeah MC I do not know if it would really be appropriate for all civs, can you imagine the elohim? I guess Einon and Ethne would be caster units but then you have to do balancing...and that would make arcane style civs a bit more powerful cos they have an extra caster unit, granted one that could spell the end of your game if they get cacked.

I like FFs Scions of Patria where you can build the Emperor or Alexis, something along those lines...