Some insight on Deity?

[Athenaeum]

I have never tried Deity before (except one time I did a teams of 2 match with a friend, which we won but I don't feel like that counts).

To those of you who have experience playing and beating Deity, do you feel that it is usually futile to build any wonders (especially early ones)? If not, then how do you decide when to try for wonders?

Also what about religion? On Emperor and Immortal, I will have quite literally ARMIES of Great Prophets flying through my territory converting everything. I can't imagine how bad religion would be on Deity. On Deity do you usually feel that you are forced to abandon religion altogether? And if not, how do you salvage it?

 

[Aheadatime]

With wonders, you need to prioritize. Generally, you won't be getting any early wonders. It is possible to get a couple of them, like Oracle, Pyramids, and very rarely, Petra. Petra is pretty luck-based tbh, as it relies entirely on the AI decision making/spawn location.

If nobody spawns on desert and you do, it is possible to get it. However, do not give away your embassy until after you've completed it. I've found that alot of civs have expands on desert tiles, and if they see you building a wonder, they'll try to grab it before you if it's relevant to their gameplay.

Mid to late game wonders are very possible (especially late-game wonders, which should be easy to grab), but again, it comes with prioritization. Keep an eye on tech costs to see which techs your enemies are advancing through. If you want something like Leaning Tower, for example, but 6 civs get there 5 turns before you will and you don't have an engineer, then you should immediately switch gears and prioritize something else.

As far as religion goes, its 100% luck imo. Did you spawn on desert tiles? Do you have 3+ gems near you? Have you met an early religious CS first? Basically, if you can get a strong faith pantheon early (desert, gems, etc), then its possible to compete. If you don't have a strong faith pantheon-based starting location, and you're relying entirely on your shrines, then give it up and just save your faith for whatever religion comes your way/great people.

 

[Athenaeum]

Thanks for the advice.

You said to keep an eye on your tech costs to see which techs the other civs are taking. When other civs research techs before you, does that make them cheaper or more expensive to you? This is one thing I have heard about before, but I don't know about. Do you know the exact percentage increase/decrease per civ that has already researched it?

 

[stormtrooper412]

Lots of Deity guides exist nowadays, just start reading them all for a heads up. It might seem overwhelming but once on Deity, you'll never be able to go back

 

[InDubioProReo]

Some wonders you can legitimately try and get most of the time. Wonders like Hubble Space Telescope, Brandenburg Gate, Oracle, Porcelain Tower, Pyramids, and some of the Ideology specific wonders come to my mind. Stonehenge is tricky but highly possible, especially if you can get free Mining and/or with stolen workers chopping some forests. If you can get a GE, either from Liberty finisher or any other means, you can try and get other wonders (Macchu Pichu and Leaning Tower of Pisa comes to mind) but it will be close nevertheless. You need to get to those techs fast, and sometimes even if you do, because AI start with more techs than you they get there faster.

Wonders like Chichen Itza (extremely difficult), Parthenon(not a high priority one but still it's highly valued by AI), Great Library(pretty much impossible in Deity, on standard it is built between t.21-32 latest), Notre Dame(similar to GL, almost impossible) and Petra(this one's more doable, however even if AI has 1 desert tile available they will go for it) are very difficult to get in Deity without a GE (I suppose maybe with Spain and King Solomon's Mines one can get Great Library).

Wonders like Hanging Gardens,Uffizi,Forbidden Palace are almost always coveted by AI aswell and not that easy to grab without a GE. With a GE, you can get them most of the time. Same goes for most of the religious wonders. In short, I think if you get a GE and the tech/policy/ideology, go for it. If you have great production in your capital, go for it. I built 16 wonders with Venice once and only 1-2 were GE rushed. Some games it's possible, however don't let wonders make you miss the bigger picture (growth, science, culture and warfare, whatever you're intending to do). Their bonuses are welcome but outside cultural victory and maaaaybe science(Hubble and PT Helps immensely), wonders are not mandatory for a successful game.

In some games, it will be tough to do what you're planning. Such as my latest, playing France going for CV, Pedro was my neighbour who built Great Wall, and built a ridiculous amount of wonders. GW rules out early conquest, Pedro gets most wonders so wonders are ruled out as well, and also he is 8% (which is like 5 techs) ahead of me in tech, even though I'm focusing on science and growth like crazy and my NC timing was fine. Come to think of it, I think I should go Dynamite and try take him out, then focus on culture. Maybe I'll go back to that game, who knows.

I have beaten Deity multiple times across all victory conditions, however that doesn't mean I can win every game I start, I pretty much abandon half of my games. Keep going at it, and on your first tries, go for simple, like Science Victory with Korea/Maya/Poland or Babylon. In my opinion, if you can nail how to focus properly on growth and science well, the rest is only about refining how to channel that into various victory conditions.

 

[beetle]

once on Deity, you'll never be able to go back

I concur, and that is even with losing more than I win!

When other civs research techs before you, does that make them cheaper or more expensive to you?

That makes them cheaper for you. I don't know the percentage, but it is noticeable.

To those of you who have experience playing and beating Deity, do you feel that it is usually futile to build any wonders (especially early ones)?

It seems that I have less success with this than most, as only Pyramids is reliable for me. You can see what AI have opened which policies, and in a few game I was the only civ who opened Tradition or Honor -- so I for those I got Hanging Gardens or Statue of Zeus.

On Deity do you usually feel that you are forced to abandon religion altogether?

Not at all. My build order is almost always scout, scout, shrine, monument. Most games, the shrine alone gets me a pantheon. There are several faith-based pantheons, so I will go with one of those if available, or God-King as a last resort. My faith-based pantheon lets me found in more than half my games. For those games where I don't found, faith is still quite important. I will have faith banked to buy religious buildings as the AIs fight over my cities. Sometimes I even purchase an inquisitor so as to have push the conversion-fights to my expos. The investment in religious buildings pays off in the Industrial Era. Early not-faith-oriented pantheons are also very strong, but I don't pick those unless I have a faith generating UU/UA or founding looks to be impossible. I have not really had trouble managing religion in my cities since the early days of G&K. I find the AI missionary spam to be inconsequential. I do have to watch the GPr though.

 

[Aheadatime]

Thanks for the advice.

You said to keep an eye on your tech costs to see which techs the other civs are taking. When other civs research techs before you, does that make them cheaper or more expensive to you? This is one thing I have heard about before, but I don't know about. Do you know the exact percentage increase/decrease per civ that has already researched it?

Np. Regarding tech costs, the cost decreases the more civs research it before you (so all civs in the game having a tech that you don't is actually beneficial for you in a way). I don't know the exact amount that it decreases though.

I usually just look at techs with the same cost, if that makes sense. So mining and archery cost the exact same, and this is represented by the two techs being "lined up" vertically inside the tech tree. Let's say you have neither of these techs researched. Mining costs you 11 science and archery costs you 9 science. This means there are more players who have archery than there are with mining.

((Note - This is a bad example, as all Deity opponents will start the game with both mining and achery, among other techs))

For more info on what Deity opponents start with, check this link http://www.carlsguides.com/strategy/civilization5/difficulty-settings.php

So assume you want Petra. You've been keeping your eye on the tech cost of Currency forever (which is, by default, 175). 15 turns before you get currency, three unknown players reach classical era. You check tech tree, currency now costs 150. That's bad news. Let's assume that one of them is India, who you have vision of. He's on a desert start and you can actually see Petra being built in his cap. It's now time to completely ditch all hope of getting it yourself and either switch gears to a different gameplan, or build up to rush him militarily since you know he's putting his capital's hammers towards a wonder.

 

[Athenaeum]

Oh yeah that's right huh? You can actually see wonders that are being constructed in their terrain, without a spy.

I guess the main thing is this. What InDubioProReo basically said is that to get a wonder, you either need to be the first to research the tech, or use a GE.

Problem is, in most games I get extremely few GE's. Pretty much I only get the 2 or 3 I purchase with Faith. I tend to fill up my science buildings and guilds first. I hardly ever fill workshops or Factories. It would be nice to get some more GE's, but I don't want to neglect my tourism and definitely my science.

So how do you guys balance specialists in terms of science, engineers and guilds?

Also if someone could provide the exact formula or rule as to how much each person lowers the research cost of a tech for everybody else then that would be fantastic.

 

[Aheadatime]

Oh yeah that's right huh? You can actually see wonders that are being constructed in their terrain, without a spy.

Yes. It's a pretty important skill coupled with early scouting and knowing when/who to embassy trade. Here's a good video on it - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TpOGOICFcE

Problem is, in most games I get extremely few GE's. Pretty much I only get the 2 or 3 I purchase with Faith. I tend to fill up my science buildings and guilds first. I hardly ever fill workshops or Factories. It would be nice to get some more GE's, but I don't want to neglect my tourism and definitely my science.

So how do you guys balance specialists in terms of science, engineers and guilds?

Sounds to me like you're doing it right. Deity teching pretty much b-lines all of the science building techs. Once you've built/purchased the building (university, lab, etc), you immediately prioritize the specialist slots (aside from starving your cities).

As far as culture specialists, those for me are lower priority. I absolutely fill them as often as possible, but they come after science slots and city growth for me. If I delay my city growth by 3 turns via assigning a writer slot, I'd rather let it grow. Population = science.

For engineer slots, almost never until late game. When I have secularism, I'd rather work the 2 hammer/2 science slot over a 4 hammer hill.

What InDubioProReo basically said is that to get a wonder, you either need to be the first to research the tech, or use a GE.

Yes. You can get a GE from something like b-lining the Leaning Tower or in those super rare games where Liberty is viable, but generally speaking, I've found that being competitive in tech and production is what nets me wonders on Deity in the mid game. Again though, in the late game, you should be able to build any wonder you want since you should have a strong tech lead.

 

[Solutionfinder]

Hey guys!

Firstly, I`m new to this forum...have been looking for some specifics on here in the past but now is the time when I join. I can say that I have mastered Immortal for Civ 5 bnw and g&k dlcs.

I played standard and epic pace on all types and sized maps, my favourite being epic pace on large pangea map with 11-14 civs and about 20-25 city states. Simply because it`s fun and you can always get a feeling sth is about to happen at any time.

Anyway, I`m about to jump to Deity. Have seen couple of youtube vids previously but we are so far apart in strategy. You could say I`m a wonder guy and manage to build many in all of my immortal games. Early on is a bit of a gamble but after Renaissance era, it`s pretty easy to get them done because I pretty much catch them in science and then go ahead, not to mention getting enginners with faith after industrial for the most coveted and important ones...oh and I do build specific wonders in my 1st 2 cities. Captiol is for science generation since I tend to fill all the science spot specialists for the great people(massive boost for scientists gen) and second is for happiness and all merchant generation related wonders, usually put next to mountain if the map allows it.

I know how to survive early on with diplomacy so not that of a big deal in case of emergency when another`s civ troops are near my borders

So my question is this. Is this possible on Deity (to be a wonder guy)? I have not even tried it yet. I came up from prince to immortal and learned a lot in the process. The last jump from Emperor to Immortal was the most enlightening of all, so that`s why I`m looking for tips before giving it a try because by now I know there must be a lot more things that I don`t know yet.

If you have any questions regarding my knowledge, strategy, play style or else, don`t be a stranger.

 

[Sayya]

Early wonders are really difficult to get on Diety. In most cases, they will delay your core buildings anyways, and you should really kick the habit.

In the ancient era wonders, you -probably- won't get any of them without some serious save/reloading.

In classical era, you can get oracle pretty reliably, sometimes get hanging gardens depending on the AIs you're going against, and if you beeline rush petra/beeling currency you might get that (but even then this one is iffy).

After this, it completely depends on the game and who's in it. I'm not the greatest of diety players, but I tend to equal out in tech at the late renaissance, so the medieval wonders are lost to me too.

But my games are with 8 people / 16 city states- with even more people, the chances of you getting them are even lower.

 

[joncnunn]

Moderator Action: Two new to Deity threads merged.

 

[Caesar Caligula]

Whenever i play Deity, i do so with Assyria, and i build Scout-Scout-Temple of Artemis. I play on epic speed while on deity and you need to pull off the build by like turn 50 of you might lose it (you NEED a worker steal from AI), but it helps immensely when going for a domination victory (at least for assyria)

 

[Acken]

The next deity challenge will be "easy". I suggest you try it out and compare what you're doing and ask for advice.
The thread should be up soon on the strategy and tips forum.

Edit: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=547044

 

[Athenaeum]

I'm playing a Deity game with Venice. It is on quick pace and turn 103.

I'm on the same continent as Carthage and Mongolia. Mongolia seems to be pretty well contained and we're both around 400 points (although points don't matter much, just to give you a general picture). But Carthage has already destroyed the Celts and is at like Score 1200 . They have just declared war on Mongolia and they're 1st place in soldiers demographic, about 3 times as mine.

Mongolia has captured a city state right next to my capital. Now that Mongolia is at war with Carthage, I feel like this might be a good opportunity to gang up against Mongolia and Liberate that City-State. However, once Mongolia is eliminated it is just me and Carthage .

First of all, will attacking a common foe gain me diplo with Carthage? Or do you think I should team up with Mongolia and try to contain Carthage? Or should I just stay out of the war? That sounds like the best option, but if I do that I feel it's going to come around to just me and Carthage once again and I don't like the thought of that.

 

[Acken]

First of all, will attacking a common foe gain me diplo with Carthage? Or do you think I should team up with Mongolia and try to contain Carthage? Or should I just stay out of the war? That sounds like the best option, but if I do that I feel it's going to come around to just me and Carthage once again and I don't like the thought of that.

Yes it gives a bonus to fight a common foe. Carthage is an agressive civ, there is a good chance of them attacking you if you're the only target.

 

[joncnunn]

Moderator Action: Two new to Deity threads merged.

 

[Athenaeum]

I'd like to go back to wonder-building.

Someone mentioned that you can actually see an AI constructing a wonder inside their terrain. Is this true for all wonders?

Looking back, I can remember countless times where I saw Stonehenge, the Oracle, or Machu Picchu being constructed midway inside my own territory. But I don't think I've ever witnessed any other wonders besides those three actually being constructed on terrain.

 

[Acken]

Yes all of them but some are a lot harder to see like sistine and notre dame.

 

[reddishrecue]

Even on tradition, Deity can be really difficult because AI makes wonders, city state allies and spaceship parts a lot faster. Even tradition isn't good enough for Deity unless the rival ais get weakened faster.