some thoughts on defensive pacts

[johnny_rico]

Hypothetical situation:

Playing a game on monarch and going for a cultural victory. Since you're only looking to have 6-8 cities, do you think it's worth it to give a city to an AI civ you're 'friendly' with and have a defensive pact? The idea here is if another civ declares war on you, you have help right in your backyard. Personally, I don't have a lot of time for military development when going for the cultural victory.

I haven't done a lot with defensive pacts so I'm not certain if this 'gift city' would lend its' aid even if war was declared on you. Most of the time, in my limited experience, it seems not much happens with your partner AI whether the defensive pact kicks in or if you get an AI civ to join you in a war.

 

[BabyBear]

I would be very carefull with defensive pacts tho (i had some bad experiences with it)

Last time I had some good diplomatic contacts with several civs. And I had a defensive pact with one of them. All of a sudden the strongest civ on the world(which i had good contacts with) declared war on the other civ i had a defensive pact with.... This ment I also declared war on that strongest civ.... this way I lost that game, cause they took one of my almost legendary cities.

I think for cultural and diplomatic victories it's good to have good contacts with the other civs... but you certainly need to be carefull with those defensive pacts. Sometimes they can help you survive if you get attacked yourself... but like with what happenned to me... It can also be your downfall.

So in your case... I would only have a defensive pact with a civ that is rather strong and is very close to you and your enemies. Otherwise it's better to just kiss their asses a bit to keep them happy with you.
As for giving the city. I would give them a city if they wanted one, that city would be a rather small one very close to my 3 cities i would to culture bomb... this way it's very likely that you will get your city back cause of your cultural borders (and you wouldn't really have lost that city, only for a certain amount of turns)

 

[ellie]

Ive had defensive pacts in the past.

Usually i regret it.

You get dragged into a war too often

 

[voek]

Normaly i have the pact cancelled before getting dragged into a war, since i am the one going to war...

But if your defence is bad, your "partner" isn't doing that well and has bad relations (important to check at all times) with a powerfull civ who should be avoided for war, then it might be a bad idea indeed.

However, being powerfull yourself you can sometimes take advantage of the pact.

1) a defencive war isn't that hard when you are quit strong and prepared for an invasion. The attack civ will lose a lot fighting the both of you and will be crippled

2) if you want to get into a war with the help of your ally, you could try the chosen civ to declare war on you. annoy him, cancel treaty's, make arrogant demands, etc. It worked for me 2 times.

So it can have it's usefull function. Offcorse relations with the other civs should be taken into account. A good thing from fighting along a friendly civ will give a great boost to your relationship with that civ. Esp. the warmongering civs.

 

[Mista]

I had Egypt ask for a defensive pact about halfway through a game. I think she was afraid of my power, being next to me. Maybe she wanted protection from others ... Funny thing, though, near the end it cost me Diplomatic victory, I think. I was on Pleased terms with Germany and Arabia, but they abstained in voting -- said that they were upset that I had a defensive pact with their neighbors ...

 

[maltz]

Giving a city improves the "Our trade relationship is fair and..." modifier. If it is already +4, the gift doesn't count as anything. So it is worthwhile to check that first.

Defensive packs aren't very good, but permenant alliance is, especially in very high difficulties. The AI would agree with anything you ask.

 

[johnny_rico]

The more I think about it, the worse of an idea it becomes. I should also point out the games are on prince, not monarch. Whichever difficulty is after noble.

You have all reinforced what I had begun to conclude.

 

[Fragment]

Another dime thrown in: If you follow the diplomatic triangle idea, you can of course have DPs with both your friendly civs, and the -x modifier "you have a DP with another AI" goes away.

Regards.

 

[katank]

Maybe this changes on higher levels but with my experience on Prince/Monarch, it never seems to be a great idea. Getting defensive pacts with multiple civs is waay too much trouble and getting it with only one just irritates others.