Some thoughts on worker stealing

[Athenaeum]

For awhile I had the habit of stealing a worker from a city-state.

At the recommendation of others, I started trying out stealing a worker from an AI instead.

This hardly ever seems like a viable option. Anytime the AI has a worker in their territory, it is usually surrounded by 2 or 3 warriors, and in range of the city.

Usually I would steal 1 worker from a city-state and then declare peace. However I decided I wanted more workers so I started waiting for the city-state to produce a second worker before declaring peace.

However, it took like 20 turns for the city-state to give me a 2nd worker. And later on, I completed a quest for that city-state (after declaring peace) but my influence was still negative from the war that had just ended, and that kept me from earning friendship with it from the quest I completed.


So does anyone have recommendations about this? Stealing a worker from an AI on Immortal/Deity seems impossible the majority of the time. And waiting around for a city-state to give you a 2nd worker is losing you a potential friend/ally at some point in the game.

I know a lot of people also use city-states to milk XP. So those of you who do this, how do you feel about knowing that your prolonged war with them is costing you potential influence?

 

[claudiupb]

I try to steal all the necessary workers, because building them really delays me.

For stealing from a CS, you can safely do it with one cs, on Immortal/Deity that has a great potential because they have a worker very early. I usually steal a second one before making peace.

You may want to steal a worker from a CS you don't want an alliance with anyway (for me that is a militaristic city state in general, but may vary). The condition for me is to be close enough, not cultural, not faith (if I want a religion), and situational depending on the quests I would favor one over the other. If it has a hostile personality that is a bonus.

For stealing from the AI, I usually tradeoff, between continuing exploration and lurking around an AI to get the opportunity to steal. If I see an AI that has a good potential for worker stealing (basically if I can steal and get away the next turn with both units, and have one, preferably 2 clear paths for escaping) I usually stick around and eventually I will get the opportunity to safely steal a worker. If I don't get one I move on, and maybe try later.

This means I delay exploration, but sometimes it is worth it. If I have scouts upgraded to archers I may buy/build other scouts as well, so I would keep exploring. In the Russia DCL I had a total of 5 scouts early on, 3 of which were upgraded to archers, but that was a salt start so it is not typical.

Sometimes if you stick around a good area with a scout, you may find an unguarded settler, that is quite an easy steal, and has the added bonus of seriously crippling that AI. This happens in the early game if the AI does not know of any barbs in that area, from what I figured.

 

[consentient]

I will make a worker stealing video this week. This is like the 10th thread I've seen complaining it's too hard

If I don't paste a link to the video back here by Thursday, feel free to PM me and chase me up.

EDIT: What am I talking about, I already have a worker steal video. Watch my Deity LP of Greece and see how I steal them from my neighbours. If this doesn't explain it, I'll make a more dedicated video.

Also, for CS XP farming, you lose almost nothing. The gain far outweighs a slight diplo hit and lost influence.

 

[ltccone]

I steal workers by attacking unescorted AI settlers.

 

[Sherlock]

I steal workers by attacking unescorted AI settlers.

Always.

 

[johnnybaseball]

I think it should be mentioned that worker stealing is considerably more difficult on lower difficulties. When I was playing on Emperor, and reading that worker stealing was the optimal play, I was confused about the fact that CSs rarely seemed to have workers in a timely fashion (waiting until Turn 40 to get your first worker was definitely not optimal). And AI have fewer workers/settlers running around. So it makes stealing all the workers you need somewhat more difficult.

 

[wayneb64]

I think it's questionable on Immortal as well. Playing quick I cannot count on a worker steal as they are just not available when I need them. More of a situational bonus.

 

[Acken]

I really raise my eyebrows when I read that worker stealing is situational at Immortal or Prince.

You should definitely make the first one on low difficulties and I'd argue it's a decent move on Immortal or even Deity when there are no quick opportunities.

But you need a minimum of 5, not just 1 or 2, most of the time (more if you go wide). So even late steals are worth it.

 

[reddishrecue]

Stealing workers off AI could work out if you pull it off right. You would end up with so many workers that using your units to steal could end up finding themselves out of life.

 

[dasaard200]

For me, travel time to and from the targeted worker(s)is the key factor; if it takes longer to GET TO something I can steal than to build one, it gets built . If I can snag one when I get there, fine & dandy !!, I'll still have the built worker, and MAYBE more .

This happens, usually on huge maps .

 

[zxcvbob]

I play at King level with raging barbarians; I can often get captured workers and settlers from clearing encampments. But not always.

If the worker belonged to a CS, it's often worth releasing it for the 45 influence points. (if you're lucky the barbs will immediately capture it again and you can recover it -- either release it again for another 45, or keep it this time.

I've thought about declaring war on one nearby CS just to level-up my army and scouts past the 2 promotions you can get from barbs; stealing a worker would just be gravy. But I've never done it. Maybe when I move up a level.

 

[Athenaeum]

I think it should be mentioned that worker stealing is considerably more difficult on lower difficulties. When I was playing on Emperor, and reading that worker stealing was the optimal play, I was confused about the fact that CSs rarely seemed to have workers in a timely fashion (waiting until Turn 40 to get your first worker was definitely not optimal). And AI have fewer workers/settlers running around. So it makes stealing all the workers you need somewhat more difficult.

I have been trying to steal them on Immortal and Deity and it's been hard. Stealing them from city states is no problem. But the AI's always have them within range of their city, and surrounded by 2 or 3 warriors.

 

[Athenaeum]

I think it's questionable on Immortal as well. Playing quick I cannot count on a worker steal as they are just not available when I need them. More of a situational bonus.

I play on quick all the time. You say it is harder on quick than on standard?

But for me, the timing is not the problem...it's the fact that the AI never leaves their worker vulnerable, it seems.

I can always just steal one from a CS but it'd be nicer not to deal with lost influence.

 

[Redaxe]

Stealing from militaristic citystates that are hostile is usually the best.

Mercentile CSs come next for me as I don't place too much value on early happiness.

Culture and faith civs never. Maritime depends to be honest. The food bonus from an early friendship can really help but I'd still value a free worker more. Greece is the best civ to do this with as the influence recovers faster.

With stealing AI workers you usually must do it very early. And I would never steal a worker from the Shoshone those Pathfinders or with Aztecs if they have Jaguars.

 

[zxcvbob]

Last night my scout encountered an unaccompanied Hun settler. So I declared war and captured it for a worker. Ten turns later, Attila offers me a straight-up peace deal and I accepted. He hasn't been any more hostile than usual. A battering ram did show up close to my borders (without any horse archers or swords for support) and a barbarian brute attacked it and it retreated; I haven't seen it since.

I'm playing as Dido or a small continents map. I haven't met any CS's yet; Babylon and the Huns are on my little continent and Japan and Austria are on each side of me, separated by shallow water. I was planning to go culture victory, but this may end up All War All The Time.

 

[beetle]

I have been trying to steal them on Immortal and Deity and it's been hard... But the AI's always have them within range of their city, and surrounded by 2 or 3 warriors.

It does seem to me that there are fewer opportunities for AI worker stealing than before the Halloween patch. Anyone else think this is true? If I am hunting, I have to look for stalking spots between AI cap and an expo or third ring luxes near AI cap. I have also had some luck when an AI escorts a settler with a warrior, but I have 3 archers in range! (The AI will settle rather than permitting a capture, so the kill has to be fast, or happen with range of another city.) AI worker stealing is definitely not as straightforward as with CS. Most of my AI worker steals are because of luck rather than good planning.

 

[wayneb64]

I play on quick all the time. You say it is harder on quick than on standard?

But for me, the timing is not the problem...it's the fact that the AI never leaves their worker vulnerable, it seems.

I can always just steal one from a CS but it'd be nicer not to deal with lost influence.

My scouts cover nearby ground early and by the time the CS workers show up, my scouts are far afield. I could nab a distant worker, but it takes forever to get it back to be of use, costing me gold the whole time. I never 'camp' my scouts at nearby CS either, there always seems to be lots of land to explore. On quick you have much less 'time' to explore with the pace of the game being so fast.

 

[consentient]

No, you are wrong, it's far easier than before. Less AIs go Tradition now, so less civs have Oligarchy and therefore your scout can survive a lot more city hits.

Far more civs are going Piety, and their early BO does not include units. So the warriors wander, and the workers are left exposed A LOT OF THE TIME.

I am more and more certain that people are just playing the first 15 turns totally wrong if they find steals so problematic. Your starting warrior literally hangs around the first civ you meet waiting for the right moment, and if it's your first scout, then he can dance around really easily before taking his chance.

Watch Acken's Maya DCL LP for a good showcase.

 

[reddishrecue]

That doesn't always work.. There are times when scouts get lost foolishly by attempting to steal from other civilizations.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I find I can land them somewhat consistently if I camp near obvious early improvements and check each turn for an opening (IE melee unit won't come in and WTFown my wounded warrior/scout from the city shot).

What I would like to know is how this impacts the AI build choices. If you stay at war, do they build fewer shrines/buildings/etc in favor of additional units? This certainly slows the AI down a lot because it isn't great about getting another worker in play fast.