Someone please explain to me how to win combat against the REF?

CharlieReddog

Chieftain
Joined
Sep 29, 2008
Messages
4
I've been playing for a while now various games and restarts trying out different facets of the game, and whatnot.

However, I just declared my first WOI and I had stockpiles of muskets all over the place, along with at least 2 cannon and 2 veteran soldiers in each town. As soon as I declared I moved my non essential dudes into the militia boosting my main cities up to over 12 defensive units. I had several dragoons out in the countryside also, and 6 SoL guarding the coast.

Simply put, I thought I was pretty ready to take on the 59 Regular REF soldiers when they came in their waves. Yes they ahd lots of artillery and dragoons, but it wasn't the colossal behemoth that some people have faced.

I'm playing on the easiest level as well.

Guess what happened next???:confused:

Yup, I got creamed. It took two turns for them to take the first city, and I didn't win a single combat, not even dragoons against artillery with me attacking. Every one of my ships attacked the same enemy MoW and got sunk. How can this be right? :sad:

So, How do I win. In the original I don't think I ever lost a WoI but I'm so frustrated right now I could throw the bloody CD out of the window.
 
In the original Col, when you declared independence your units got beefed up and aquired the bonuses that the natives have.
You no longer get that and have to start killing natives in order to have them "beefed" up before hand.

Additionally, winning a sea battle is really hard. I keep reading in game that my ships shouldn't die but go back to port - yet that's never once happened?
 
You have to fight them on the beaches. They are too strong against your colonies so you need to have enough dragoons on hand to wipe out each wave as they arrive. Various FF give you additional attack bonuses and you have the advantage that you can let your troops heal between battles.
 
Well I only won once before giving up and waiting for a patch. Explorer difficulty, I declared at 51% and the REF was around 100 troops to my 70.

As far as I can tell, the best way to beat the REF is to have lots and lots of dragoons and attack the REF once they land. In my case the REF nearly always landed on hills or in the forests, but my dragoons were still well able to beat them. I didn't lose a single settlement, although I only had about a dozen troops left by the end.

So don't skimp on the dragoons, and never wait for them to attack your settlements, always be on the offensive.
 
Buy more cannons, let the REF take your cities and then reconquer them. You dont need any dragoons or soldiers, only cannons.

Or just wait for a patch to fix the broken game mechanics. ;)
 
Don't let the REF take your cities if you can otherwise stop them. Especially if Artillery get inside the cities, you're going to have a horrible time defeating those punks.

The REF doesn't receive defensive forest bonuses. If you fight in the jungles and forests, you'll get better odds with correctly promoted soldiers. Try not to fight them on the hills or the mountains, because I'm pretty sure they're hard-coded to give out bonuses to the defenders on top of them. Inside, try to hold these strategic hills and mountains.

Attempt to have enough garrisons placed where you believe the REF will land, and don't fortify your coastal cities with anything. No stockades or forts or fortressses, otherwise, if a REF dragoon takes a city because they have 2 movement, you'll have a much harder time taking that city back. Even unfortified, a Dragoon in a city will wipe out 2 or 3 soldiers before falling.

Never fight in your cities. The REF get bonuses for attacking cities. If you see Artillery in the REF landing forces next to your city, your best bet is just evacuate all colonists from the city. The REF will use your own colonists against you. Always try to wipe out any REF force in a forest or open field. Always target Artillery whenever possible, to keep your inland cities safer from their +150% bonus when attacking cities.

If you have a mountain next to your city, I advise you to fortify it. REF doesn't attack amphibiously, and will be forced to land in the adjacent tile. If you hadn't fortified the mountain, the REF would land there, and be nearly invulnerable. Hills are less threatening, and not a priority to fortify, but are still strategic strongholds.

Dragoons don't receive defensive bonuses, so don't make use of them when defending against the REF. In truth, a Soldier is better than a Dragoon in that it can make use of promotions that the Dragoon doesn't have access to. A Soldier requires only half the amount of material to make as a Dragoon. Therefore, you can devote more time to have more Soldiers, instead of focusing upon fewer Dragoons.

Soldiers can make use of promotions to gain bonuses in assaulting terrain. A Dragoon cannot. While a Dragoon is strength 4, and a Soldier is strength 3, this doesn't necesarrily mean they're stronger. A Dragoon doesn't have access to promotions which allow eventual double movement in a forest/hill/jungle/marsh, and +40% or +45% to attacking forest/hill/jungle/marsh. Even with Explorer 1, a Dragoon can still only move as fast as a Forester 2 Soldier in a forest. In the end, a Soldier is better than a Dragoon in all ways save basic strength.
 
The royal troops are not supposed to benefit from any defensive bonus. Not forests, not jungles, not hills, not peaks, not cities (with the exception of Artillery, which has an integrated defense modifier).

Also, try to keep your global rebel sentiment very high (more than the minimum to break free). You normally get half the percentage in combat bonuses once you declare independence. Twice as much if you're using Bolívar.
 
I'm pretty sure the hills thing is hard-coded, and only beaten by the Natives because they have +75% attack on basicly every terrain.
 
I've found it useful to fight a "warm up" war before going up against the King. In my current Spanish game, I have a total of 3 Veteran soldiers (one from the king, one appeared on the docks, and my original), all with at least Combat 4 due to skirmishes with the Indians and a Great General. Also, having at least one surgeon unit for healing is very important.

Beyond that, fighting in the fields and not in your cities is the best way to beat them. They landed in several neighboring tiles instead of all in one in my game, so I would attack the smaller stacks and retreat into my fortresses to heal. After a turn, they all move next to a colony and lay the wrath of the Gods down...just keep ambushing them in the wilderness, though, and their numbers will chip away.
 
If you have a mountain next to your city, I advise you to fortify it. REF doesn't attack amphibiously, and will be forced to land in the adjacent tile.

I got amphibiously attacked. I thought it was very underhand!
 
The REF will launch amphibious attacks. My last game saw four such attempts (each one involving multiple troops because the artillery went first and died).
 
It is very simple. Make a main force maybe 4 hexs from where they land. Have some forests mountains or hills nearby depending on if you took or will take the forest or hills promotions for your unit.

Have some dragoon some inf and some cannon, dont defend your cities at all it is suicide. Now when they take a city use your cannons to blow up all the untis in the city but one, preferably from a forest hex. Leave 5 or so INF in with the cannons to defend them. Make sure to have a surgeon to hel your stack.

Rinse repeat.

You can also use dragoons to kill his art when its alone. Generally just sit in the woods or hills, or better yet woody hills and let them die on you.

It is not very hard or fun.
 
I have yet to win a game :) but I have had the tactic to attack and sink as many of the kings warships as possible. That will help... It might not be the best way...
 
I just lost a game with the King having only 2 units left and I ran out of time, because we all know that no one ever gained independence after 1792. His forces were about 120 to my 40, I had more people, but only that many guns and had to continue making guns while fighting defensively. The King took about half my cities before I was able to fight back. it was great fun, and would have been much more fun with out that time limit.
 
What difficulty level for those amphibious attacks?

Pioneer on my first WoI and Explorer on my second. They will attack amphibiously.

Don't laugh at my low difficulty levels right now--I'm figuring this game out. I'm moving up after I win as the Stuyvesant!

Also, bear in mind the king's forces will appear roughly where you started your game. Therefore, you should amass your cannons along the coastal colonies in that area. Don't bother putting them on the Pacific coast. Keep your veterans together and use them initially to strike at weakened targets to build up experience...once you get a few Veteran IIIs or Veteran II/Formation dragoons, the war becomes a lot easier because they typically win against the cavalry, and then your infantry can ambush the rest in the rough terrain.
 
In my last game, the forces broke down like this:

Conquisatador level, MArathon game.
Me: 38 soldiers, 9 dragoons, 47 cannon, 10 Ships of the line, 11 privateers.
4 soldiers were veterans. 1 dragoon was a veteran, and 6 of my dragoons were former seasoned scouts with a LOT of experience.
Enemy: 212 regulars, 115 dragoons, 88 artillery, 13 warships.

I had enough horses and guns stockpiled to make another 14 dragoons or 17 infantry on demand, and I was producing enough horses and guns to make another 1 or 2 units per turn.

Basically, I had a slight advantage in naval power, and the REF ground forces outnumbered me by about 4 to 1.

In that game, I beat them quickly with a naval victory, then reloaded the game, and beat them in a ground victory, without using any ships.


beating the Ref is pretty easy. What you need to know:

1. as far as I know, the ref has all the normal bonuses and penalties for terrain. meaning, dragoons don't get any bonuses for terrain, soldiers do, cannon/artillery gets a 50% bonus for defending settlements, but no other bonuses. You have the same restrictions.

2. all REF units get HUGE bonuses, above and beyond the normal, for attacking any settlements.

3. all cannon/ artillery, on both sides, gets a 100% bonus for attacking any settlement, and a 50% bonus for defending any settlement.

4. Cannon/artillery/ Ships of the line/ men of war can bombard a settlement's stockade/fort/fortress defense bonus down to zero eventually. also, that bonus only applies to soldiers in the first place.

5. Soldiers are your key defensive unit, inside settlements or outside. Dragoons are your key offensive element, outside settlements. Artillery are best used to attack settlements, but make decent settlement defenders in a pinch.

So, here's how to beat the REF:

First method: Naval victory.

Loaded ref men-of war will make a beeline for your shores, unload, THEN turn and fight, before eventually returning to europe to reload.

in general, in order to sink a man of war, you need to swarm it with 4 privateers, 3 frigates, or 2 ships of the line. only one of your attacking ships will survive. my prefferred method was to sacrifice a privateer to damage the enemy, then attack with a ship of the line. that worked about 50% of the time. when it didn't work, I had a designated experienced ship of the line which sailed in and finished of the wounded. That experienced Ship of the line was eventually powerfull enough to take out an enemy Man of war in a fair fight.

So, if you have enough ships, you win. easy. Try to spread your privateers out in an early-warning screen, so you have plenty of time to find and engage the enemy before he reaches your shores, and keep your ships of the line together, so they can protect each other. I killed about half the ships in the first wave, all but one in the second wave, and finished them off in the third. with no ships, the REF can't reach your shores, and you win as soon as whatever ground forces DID reach your shores are finished off.

Second method: Kill them on the beaches.

I had ONE settlement bordering on the ocean. all other settlements were inland and serviced by wagon trains. my ONE settlement on the ocean was surrounded by forested hills and mountains. for 2 squares up and down the shore, there was nothing but forested hills and mountains touching the shore. beyond that, it was plains, and I had clear-cut those plains so that there was NO forest for cover. everything had a road built on it, so my dragoons could quickly reach anything nearby.

Then I put stacks of infantry on every piece of shore near my colony. 6 tiles near my colony had 6 infantry each fortified on top of it. 4 reserve infantry in my colony, and about 15 artillery in my colony.

I placed one artillery in each of my inland colonies. my 9 dragoons, and ~ 25 remaining artillery, were all placed in the closest inland colony. EVERY colony had a fortress.

The enemy sailed in, and tried to make amphibious assaults, against fortified positions, on some of the most defensible terrain possible. whenever some of the infantry in a stack got too badly damaged, I withdrew them to the colony to heal, and shuffled my forces to fill in the gap.

If i had green units defending a tile, who had only been fortified for one turn, the enemy took 4-1 casualties.

If I had EXPERIENCED units defending a tile, who had been fortified for 5 or more turns, the enemy took 16-1 casualties.

It helps to get at least one unit in each stack promoted as a surgeon, faster healing in place.

VERY RARELY, the enemy would land troops in the plains to the far north or south of my colony. 9 dragoons with pre-laid roads were more than enough to take them out.

The only time I had to use my cannon was when I didn't have enough infantry in my colony to defend the colony proper against a direct amphibous assault. Infantry make better settlement defenders, especially with a fortress.

the one time a man-of-war stuck around long enough to bombard my defenses down to a dangerous level, i sailed my fleet out from the colony, killed him, and sailed back in. otherwise, I left his fleet alone.

Method 3: Fight him within the interior.

Fighting the enemy in the settlement proper is a very bad idea. all his bonuses come into play there.

your dragoons want to fight him on the empty plains, where your dragoons can withdraw to safety, and he can't catch you. your soldiers want to fight a defensive battle, in forests and mountains and hills, where the enemy has to leave his comfort zone, and fight a constant uphill battle. Certain founding fathers and other revolutionary heroes will give you massive bonuses for these sorts of tactics.

Let the enemy charge you, bleed him out, then run away and repeat. make him come to you, over and over again. Cavalry hit him when he's unfortified on the plains, or wounded and retreating in the hills.

Method 4: feed him a poisoned settlement.

pick a settlement along the shore, and GIVE it to him. The enemy is much better at taking colonies than he is at holding them.

then put a very large force of infantry and cannon on a mountain or wooded hill overlooking the colony. the infantry dig in to resist any attack. the cannon just pound him. kill everything he has in the settlement, retreat, give it back to him. Repeat constantly. Cannon are much better at attacking settlements than anyone is at defending them. remember not leave any defensive walls standing, and beware the cavalry. cavalry are designed to kill cannon BEFORE they reach a settlement: that's why you need an infantry screening force, and defensible terrain.

Whichever method you use: ALWAYS CONCENTRATE YOUR FORCES. Soldiers who aren't shooting or healing are worthless to you. if a settlement isn't being attacked, divert all but a token force towards whatever is being attacked. it's far better to lose a colony from a flank attack than to lose a colony AND a significant portion of your army from a frontal attack. Colonies come and and go, armies are forever.
 
I usually play on marathon, and with only 1 oceanside colony, that becomes my main clearing house. all spare ore and lumber ships there, 3 blacksmiths working full time in highest level building, 3 gunsmiths, full time, highest level building. 3 carpenters, likewise. 100% independence sentiment, and all the relevant founding father bonuses.

I usually start building ships in 1600 AD, and keep building until the end.
 
I leave the city empty where REF lands and my dragoons have some step back, and I try to kill everyone in the single turn. If you garrison your soldiers/dragoons in the city then REF may attack it amphibious but you want that you are only one who can attack and REF must only defend. In time your troops get stronger with promotions and later you cut your knife through the butter.
 
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