Sons of the Inferno are breaking the game

[PPQ_Purple]

I understand what you want to say and I disagree with you.
It is natural that in games like in reality there will be game breaking things. In life invested effort is not always proportionate to the gained result.

Why should the game be any different?

 

[Buckwild]

I understand what you want to say and I disagree with you.
It is natural that in games like in reality there will be game breaking things. In life invested effort is not always proportionate to the gained result.

Why should the game be any different?

You cannot change "game-breaking" factors in life that make things unfair. Games are great in that we have the power to change the rules and allow for a more even playing field. Often times, games are an escape from life itself. Anything that breaks a game and becomes not only a great route to victory, but one that if not taken gives you a near guaranteed loss against competent players makes games less diverse. Is that what we want to see in a game that was originally based on the premise that a game is a series of interesting decisions?

 

[mcwill123]

You cannot change "game-breaking" factors in life that make things unfair. Games are great in that we have the power to change the rules and allow for a more even playing field. Often times, games are an escape from life itself. Anything that breaks a game and becomes not only a great route to victory, but one that if not taken gives you a near guaranteed loss against competent players makes games less diverse. Is that what we want to see in a game that was originally based on the premise that a game is a series of interesting decisions?

Well put, Buckwild. One of the strengths of FFH and Civ in general is the variety of legitimate paths to victory.

 

[Breunor]

Well, I am using it in my current game! I don't have a 'trophy' for the Elohim yet. After the expansion stage, I was in third place (Immortal) but catching up will be hard.

Yes, I took my hero, and got 10 SOI (lost mind III 3 times). I'm pretty sure I have this game in the bag now.

I do agree it is a bit of a 'problem'. When I get into trouble I use the 'get Chalid' strategy and now this is added to the toolbox.

Best wishes,

Breunor

 

[Emptiness]

It is natural that in games like in reality there will be game breaking things. In life invested effort is not always proportionate to the gained result.

Why should the game be any different?

So people will want to play the game. When the benefit is not proportional to the investment then everyone feels compelled to take that path (which limits the replayability of the game by making all games very similar) and anyone beaten by someone who took that path feels cheated (their victory was easier than it should have been / I had no chance of victory so why did I bother playing / my opponent built that early Archmage one turn before I could, and now the game is over).

I understand what you want to say and I disagree with you.

Fair enough. I don't think there's necessarily one "right" answer to this question, because personal preference is a large part of whether one would see this situation as a problem.

 

[mcwill123]

It was very refreshing to be playing Orbis lately. I took a look in the area of the dragon's city and it wasn't stocked to the gills with SoI and elementals. Archeron on his own is still an SOB until well into the game.

This whole thing is only an issue in multi-player games. The point is that whoever gets a few of the Sons of the Inferno, has a huge huge advantage. Rather than having several competitive strategies for a win, now there is one major path to victory in a MP game.

 

[Kranden]

I still think that there anything that does not make the .exe crash is not a bug.
I have seen to many things in FFH been taken to the execution post via the nerf stick.

So you're saying if I could get a turn one Auric ascended that would be fine as long as the game didn't crash.

I hardly think this is unnecessary calling of the nerf stick. This is a valid balance discussion. Not an X is too good nerf it because Y is not as good.

 

[SillyGoat]

I don't play MP, so I'm unclear on how games are set up, but wouldn't the simplest solution be to simply tick the "No Acheron" option on the custom game setup screen?

No Acheron = no SoI to Dominate.

 

[Meester]

I would like to control Sons Of Inferno but limiting them to 4 sounds like a good idea with the rest staying as Disciples Of Acheron. For The Horde should still be able to capture them.

 

[JohnCataldo]

It is natural that in games like in reality there will be game breaking things. In life invested effort is not always proportionate to the gained result.

Why should the game be any different?

Because it's more fun. (No, life isn't always fun either, but if you aren't here to have fun, why play the game? Just go enjoy life instead! Or not, if that's your perspective. =)

Further, while I'm sure this could spawn a political debate, just because something is natural doesn't mean it is inherently desirable. Hurricanes and Earthquakes (etc.) are natural, but they are far more desirable in games than in life, just as some things are less desirable.

There are various possible reasons why some people might not find it fun, but it's the best reason to change anything in any game (and this includes the reason to fix bugs, crashes or otherwise -- bugs aren't fun).

The major reason for me, in this very specific example, is because the game would always be a race to get the Sons. Before the Sons, FFH included many varied paths to victory. Removing all but one of those paths (ignoring that the path didn't exist previously) makes the game boring. Boring is not fun!

 

[FrozenShadows]

i think that guy was just bored and trolling, he distracted you from the point. trying to find a way to fix it and make it more fair, page one had some good ideas ^^

 

[FlyingSwan]

I,d not played FFH for ages so the SoI was quite a shock,as were the scorpians and lion prides.

Ive not made up my mind about the SoI as bieng good or bad yet in SP,but the fire elementals are annoying in that they dont seem to do much for ages,then will suddenly turn on you,and worse yet there invisible!

Im assuming this is a bug in the game,is there a patch i need to install?(i have the latest BTS one-3.19 i think)

 

[DaveGold]

In patch O the elementals will attack, which means you need much stronger forces to deal with Acheron. I'm expecting new complaints to come in about these guys soon.

Spoiler :

A barbarian player can build roads through dragon territory and the fire elementals will move along roads.

I saw one game recently where the Dragon built his city next to the earth mana site on a river. The Disciples all summoned earth elementals and had stoneskin, even more troublesome than before .

 

[Azhral]

Ive not made up my mind about the SoI as bieng good or bad yet in SP,but the fire elementals are annoying in that they dont seem to do much for ages,then will suddenly turn on you,and worse yet there invisible!

Im assuming this is a bug in the game,is there a patch i need to install?(i have the latest BTS one-3.19 i think)

Fire elementals shouldn't be invisible, unless you've turned off the 'Unit Animations' in the graphics options.

The Sons usually get Spell Extension however, so the Fire Elementals move really fast.

 

[FlyingSwan]

[QUOTE=Azhral-"Fire elementals shouldn't be invisible, unless you've turned off the 'Unit Animations' in the graphics options."

Thanks,thats going to be the problem im sure(ive tweaked graphics to minimise slowdown)

Going back to Krandens OP I think remove the SoI outright,for 2 reasons,they dont pose any real threat,they are too powerful and easy to dominate early on.

In my first game of FFH for a while I took out SoI and captured Acheron with a stack of HA,cats,Arthundain and a beastmaster with virtually no resistance.

In my second game as the Dark elves I captured a stack of SoI with Gibbon Goetia and wiped out 2 civs with just 4 of them,using Mind III,fire elemental as stack protection and fireball to reduce city defence.

I realise someones spent alot of time creating the SoI but i dont think they work.To me Acheron should be more like Smaug the dragon on the lonely mountain.(which im sure is what he was based on originally)

I think rather than SoI,Acheron should protect his own treasure,lauching meteors and roaring as you enter his lands,even attacking stacks next to his lair.

 

[avalonnn]

I think rather than SoI,Acheron should protect his own treasure,lauching meteors and roaring as you enter his lands,even attacking stacks next to his lair.

Strongly agree, though for game purposes, it makes sense for him to have a stack of greenskins. The archers help make his city tough to take.

Would it be possible to code him so that he automatically appear in an unoccupied sector of the Erebus map? It would be in an area surrounded by mountains and ocean that no other civ is located in.

Also, if Acheron is like Smaug but is a city dragon, then Acheron is very different. Why not give the city a Dragon Egg that hatches after 400 years of incubation?