[Speculation]Portugal

[iRule]

So, do you think Portugal still has a place in? I'll be shocked if they/we don't... especially considering Brazil is in.

Unless Firaxis, for some reason, thinks Brazil will encompass Portugal. Which would be ridiculous. It would be the same as saying the United States = UK.

Also, considering the Scramble for Africa scenario, not having Portugal would be really, really weird - once again, unless they somehow fit the Brazilian civilization there... which would be ridiculous. Is there any case of a Scenario which had a base game civilization re-branded with a different name? (say, a Brazil which became Portugal in the Scramble for Africa scenario?)

Anyway, if Portugal's in, who/how do you think it is going to be?

Capital - Lisbon

UU - Nau (carrack) / Bandeirantes [hardly, now that Brazil is in - it would fit Brazil more, even though the bandeirantes were Portuguese] / aventureiros (the Portuguese who explored Asia, on their own)

UB - Feitoria-Fábrica (same as in C IV) / Engenho (sugar-factory, once again could easily fit the Brazilian civilization) / a unique dockyard

 

[cybrxkhan]

I think Portugal's a given, even more so than the Zulu - they fit real well into the international trade focus of BNW, and I suspect their UA would have something to do with that (like extra trade routes or increased trade bonuses from trade routes with City states or something). I think that likewise having Brazil in almost guarantees Portugal, since, as said, otherwise it'd be ridiculous as having the US but no England.

I think their UU will still be the Carrack, which is the traditional Portuguese UU in the civ series. It might be replaced with the Nao, but who knows. Bandeirantes are also likely, in my opinion.

 

[GenjiKhan]

Unless Firaxis, for some reason, thinks Brazil will encompass Portugal. Which would be ridiculous. It would be the same as saying the United States = UK.

Don't worry . Brazil could never ever represent Portugal and vice versa .

UU - Nau (carrack) / Bandeirantes [hardly, now that Brazil is in - it would fit Brazil more, even though the bandeirantes were Portuguese] / aventureiros (the Portuguese who explored Asia, on their own)

Nau would fit much better for Portugal than Bandeirantes,because Portugal's culture is way more attached to sea trade routes than land exploration . Bandeirantes doesn't represent Portugal that much,specially when you consider most of them have born in Brazil and are mestiços(a blend between more than one race,which in this case,it is Europeans and Natives) . And it's worth to mention that Nau is the Portuguese word for Carrack .

 

[iRule]

Oh, and leader - now that Brazil is in, I'm pretty sure they'd choose an early Portuguese Empire leader than a mid-late empire one (because in the latter situation, the Portuguese Empire would become increasingly more similar to the Brazilian civ, or better yet, the other way around), so I'm guessing Infante Dom Henrique (Henry the Navigator) is back. Or Dom João II.

If for some reason they focus in 18th century Portugal I'd say the Marquis of Pombal, a huge name in 18th century History, but as it's much closer to Brazilian independence I wouldn't say so... not to mention that the era of the Marquis of Pombal marks the transition point for Brazil, from a backwater colony to the heart of the Portuguese Empire (the Marquis of Pombal was partly behind the bandeirantes' craze and the expansion of Brazil into Spanish and indigenous territories)

There's no way they're focusing on the late years of the Monarchy or the early years of the Republic though, even though that is around the time the real scramble for Africa began. Even if Portugal was the 3rd major European player in Africa, it was a very convulsed period in Portuguese history, with Portugal struggling to industrialise and falling behind the other European contenders in Africa - in fact, Portugal only managed to have such a strong presence in Africa (effectively rivaling the British, and beating, in a certain way, France) because it had several centuries in advance, when it came to settling Africa.

 

[justinianI]

Portugal is still a very safe bet, especially with the included Africa scenario/trading emphasis. I think it would be cool if Portugal had the unique ability that their cargo ships that added 50% more gold/production/food to sea trade routes or something along those lines. My guess would also be Henry the Navigator as leader, but who knows.

 

[GenjiKhan]

Portugal is still a very safe bet, especially with the included Africa scenario/trading emphasis. I think it would be cool if Portugal had the unique ability that their cargo ships that added 50% more gold/production/food to sea trade routes or something along those lines. My guess would also be Henry the Navigator as leader, but who knows.

Maybe they'll think about something even more unique to them . Perhaps their UA is about receiving Great Merchant points for each international trade active and also giving an equal ammount of Great Merchant points to their partner .

 

[justinianI]

Yes, I was debating as to whether the 50% more /// should be their UA or whether it should be a trait of a UB harbor or of UU Cargo Ship. They could do it in a number of ways. I may be way off, but I think they will definitely have a trade focus. It may be way more subtle and unique like your merchant idea!

 

[Louis XXIV]

I still haven't heard a good candidate for using the trade route mechanic, so I suspect they'll be in. That being said, some have been using the icon representing Brazil in the game as an indication that they won't be. I personally don't have strong thoughts either way. Hittites and Sumerians are out, so Portugal remains the only previously included Civ likely to be in.

 

[cybrxkhan]

I still haven't heard a good candidate for using the trade route mechanic, so I suspect they'll be in.

I would think a Silk Road civ would be a good candidate for a trade route mechanic (or a one different from Portugal's) - a nomad civ combining mobile military and trade routes would be pretty interesting. But that aside indeed Portugal's the most likely candidate for a trade route UA.

 

[justinianI]

Hittites and Sumerians are out, so Portugal remains the only previously included Civ likely to be in.

Don't forget Shaka...

 

[Louis XXIV]

I guess I've just taken him for granted.

I should add I've technically not seen anything saying that the Hittites are out. Unless I see Hattusa as a City State (FYI, it would make a great choice ), I shouldn't be so presumptive even if the Assyrians make it less likely.

 

[steveg700]

It would be loopy not to have Portugal at this point.

Could have extra international trade routes, or longer ones.

The nau/carrack could be a cargo ship UU.

 

[Colmar]

This expansion seems to be made for Portugal. With the Africa scenario and trade focus, it wouldn't make sense to not include Portugal. There are three eagle icons now, I'm sure they can pull off the ol' Portugal look without being too similar to Brazil.

 

[nunor]

Oh, and leader - now that Brazil is in, I'm pretty sure they'd choose an early Portuguese Empire leader than a mid-late empire one (because in the latter situation, the Portuguese Empire would become increasingly more similar to the Brazilian civ, or better yet, the other way around), so I'm guessing Infante Dom Henrique (Henry the Navigator) is back. Or Dom João II.

Joao II will make it, in my opinion. While Henry the Navigator is more well-known internationally, and thus the most immediate choice, Firaxis have been refining their research, and the first-time inclusion of Joao II (an actual ruler too, unlike Henry the Navigator) in Civ4BTS proves it. I don't think they're going back to the early years.

That said, I don't even think there is any better option for Portugal than Joao II. Still, should they go for diversity, alternatives would be:

Afonso I - first king, winner of several battles, gave Portugal its independence (also, beard)
Joao IV - very popular king, regained independence for Portugal after the Iberian Union, the Portuguese empire reached its height under his reign
Maria II - health and education reformer, and Firaxis like their female leaders
Antonio Salazar - semi-fascist dictator, highly controversial, but Stalin has been featured more than once

 

[King William I]

Not if but when Portugal is included, I would like to see a return of Joao II's Leaderhead music. But that's probably wishful thinking. My current idea for Portugal:

Portugal

Capital: Lisbon (the fact that Ur is a purple maritime CS all bt confirms this)
Leader: Joao II
UU: Explorer (Musketman, due to the lack of a general explorer unit, I see a Portuguese UU with increased LOS)
UB: Navigation School (Harbor or Shipyard, Gives +1 sight to all this built in this city
UA: Sea Trade Routes 50% more lucrative.

 

[Beefie]

Maybe as part of the UA or as the unique promotion of the carrack:
Sea trade routes with City-states generate influence as well as gold.

 

[Mr.Q]

Thanks for creating the thread iRule. My idea for Portugal as a civilization is that of a seafaring one with a wide trade network that generates gold and culture:

Capital: Lisbon

Leader: King João II (John II)

UU: The carrack (nau) – replaces caravel. 6 . 30 . +1 extra sight than caravel. It can explore rival territory without trespassing or an open borders agreement. Cost: 120 hammers.

UB: Feitoria – replaces harbor (it can only be built in coastal cities). Allows a naval trade route with the capital city . + 25% for naval units. +1 for every sea resource (it retains the same benefit as harbor in this case), + 1 for every luxury resource worked in the town. Trade network ability/group building ability: It increases the range for naval trade units posing no range costs for trade units (and allied naval trade units - why not?) moving within 10 plots from any feitoria. Range cost starts when moving out of the feitorias’ sphere of protection/influence. Cost: 120 hammers; Maintenance: 3

UA: Encompassing the globe or Age of the discoveries – sea trade routes are 50% more lucrative. Each maritime international trade route generates +1 in the capital city . Maritime trade route with CS generate influence. Once a great merchant is born receive +2 additional naval trade routes.

No start bias or coastal bias (?)

Language: European Portuguese

P.S.: The Feitoria or the trading post supported the Portuguese expansion on the Atlantic and Indian oceans enabling the trade through greater distances while creating safe harbors against enemy ships. So this building must reflect two things: 1. faster ship production even in small towns which would allow a better protection from barbarian and rival empire’s attacks and 2. A wider trade network that allows trade between far away continents starting from the renaissance era.

 

[mitsho]

These propositions (especially for the UA) are supposed to be alternative, right? Because if they were cumulative, they'd be way too good.

I'd prefer to design the civ in a way that makes them go for early (intercontinental) naval trade routes and (because it works so well gameplay wise coupled with trade routes, not because it's historical) make them a Diplomat civ trying to ally City States. That would result in something like this:

UA: Double from meeting City States (makes you explore), +50% from international trade routes.
UU: Carrack (earlier Caravel with sight bonus that stays; the latter lets you chose other promotions to defend your routes)
UB: Feitoria (Seaport replacement, doubles range of trade routes (both land and sea to be useful on land maps as well) originating in this city, no upkeep cost)

 

[snipperrabbit!!]

Maybe they hould do an Haakapelita thing with the carrack ie. any embarked civiian unit starting in the same plot as a carrack receives the same movement rating.

 

[lp_04]

I put my feet back when talking about João II, Henrique, Feitorias and carracks. They were in civ III and IV, they are too used!
Change the names firaxis!
Perhaps "Nau" instead of "Carrack" (never replace a cargo ship for it). and the Nau should not replace a caravel as the expansion was made with Naus and Caravels. It can replace a late renaissance naval unit (privateer?) and be earned earlier.
From Afonso Henriques, D.Dinis, João I, Manuel I, Maria II ... There are many kings to use (João II was the best in my oppinion, but there are others). Maria II is a good idea indeed (I would prefer other king that has done more but as firaxis uses many female leaders and we have 0 in BNW, until now, ...).
Feitorias is something almost necessary, but there are other ideas "Padrão" (well, they were used Before the construction of a city. Maby"Plourinho"? I don't think so...) "Casa de Fados" (the tipical portuguese cafe with wine, music and popular discussion)...
Bandeirantes is a good, very good idea for a civ with 2 UU.
The ability should be focused on expansion (if feitoria or simmilar is used) OR on expansion and trade rotes (if we have 2 UU)