AutomatedTeller
Frequent poster
ok - if Memphus is south of the general, I can't get to him - Rome is on a choke. So I'll explore north, see if he's up there.
Spoiler for Single-player PBEM - China
- Thread starter AutomatedTeller
- Start date
I'd probably go Iron Working and if there isn't any, then settle by the copper - it might be hard to defend, but it'll be even harder to defend any city (and preferable also defend its sorroundings from pillaging) at all with just archers.
I wouldn't worry too much about the Khmer. If I had just either copper or iron as them, I wouldn't bother significantly more about Ballista Elephants than I'd bother about Elephants as any other civ and I certainly wouldn't start a war specifically to get ivory.
I wouldn't worry too much about the Khmer. If I had just either copper or iron as them, I wouldn't bother significantly more about Ballista Elephants than I'd bother about Elephants as any other civ and I certainly wouldn't start a war specifically to get ivory.
AutomatedTeller
Frequent poster
So, I found the general and can't get by him.
He's size 3 now - am I the only one making a settler? Memphus is size 4, Ronnie is size 3.
Anyway.
Did a chop, roaded SE of the cap - that will allow the settler to settle the turn after created (gets to move 3 cause of road).
I'll road my way down to the sheep, so my 2nd city gets connected - it only costs me a turn or two (cause I can move and road in the same turn)
Other option is to chop a 2nd worker.
He's size 3 now - am I the only one making a settler? Memphus is size 4, Ronnie is size 3.
Anyway.
Did a chop, roaded SE of the cap - that will allow the settler to settle the turn after created (gets to move 3 cause of road).
I'll road my way down to the sheep, so my 2nd city gets connected - it only costs me a turn or two (cause I can move and road in the same turn)
Other option is to chop a 2nd worker.
Attachments
AutomatedTeller
Frequent poster
oh - I have 3 warriors already - 1 is down south, fogbusting, the other two are up north, fogbusting. I'm debating sending them up to Ronnie (one of the has combat 1 and shock - might mess up his plans 
), but then I'd be vulnerable if Memphus shows up.
What I'll end up doing is leaving the promoted one fogbusting and the other exploring up the coast to Ronnie to see what is up around there.
Hey - what sort of flexibility do I have in a game like this on naming units? I have my combat 1/shock warrior named 1st regiment right now - say I have him wandering around and ronnie sees it and later I rename it and give ronnie another look - is that playing dirty pool? I'm not likely to do it on purpose (lot's of work), but it's the sort of thing I'm likely to do on a whim
), but then I'd be vulnerable if Memphus shows up. What I'll end up doing is leaving the promoted one fogbusting and the other exploring up the coast to Ronnie to see what is up around there.
Hey - what sort of flexibility do I have in a game like this on naming units? I have my combat 1/shock warrior named 1st regiment right now - say I have him wandering around and ronnie sees it and later I rename it and give ronnie another look - is that playing dirty pool? I'm not likely to do it on purpose (lot's of work), but it's the sort of thing I'm likely to do on a whim
I remember we had a big heated public debate in the first civ mtdg, because my team (TNT) had swapped two citynames (as we moved our capital, IIRC). 
In a relaxing game as this I see no problem with it, though, as long as you don't do it purposefully to systematically deceive everyone.
In a relaxing game as this I see no problem with it, though, as long as you don't do it purposefully to systematically deceive everyone.
AutomatedTeller
Frequent poster
I have met Memphus!!!
He showed up with a wounded quecha north of my land, next to 1st regiment (combat1/shock). Hopefully, he turns around and goes away - I went south.
And I sent him an email greeting him and implying that my defenses were very strong which I think they are, at least vs. a quecha with woodsman 1 - 3
I think it gave me a bit of a boost on my last turn of mysticism - I had 10 beakers overflow from mysticism applied to Hinduism. I thought about Buddhism, but I figured that I had a good shot at getting hinduism and, if I didn't get oracle, I could try to get ToA (trade route boost and a free priest, for an extra hammer/gold AND GP point - it's expensive, but I am industrious and I do have marble - if I get to size 5 before building it, it'll take 12 turns)
I also found Ronnie's southern borders and a rice in the jungle - hopefully, he's fine with the jungle border for us.
Lewis and Clark are in a little danger from a lion, but on a forest hill, they should be fine. There is a bear around where they are (north of the general and near his scout - maybe i should warn him about that)
He showed up with a wounded quecha north of my land, next to 1st regiment (combat1/shock). Hopefully, he turns around and goes away - I went south.
And I sent him an email greeting him and implying that my defenses were very strong which I think they are, at least vs. a quecha with woodsman 1
- 3 I think it gave me a bit of a boost on my last turn of mysticism - I had 10 beakers overflow from mysticism applied to Hinduism. I thought about Buddhism, but I figured that I had a good shot at getting hinduism and, if I didn't get oracle, I could try to get ToA (trade route boost and a free priest, for an extra hammer/gold AND GP point - it's expensive, but I am industrious and I do have marble - if I get to size 5 before building it, it'll take 12 turns)
I also found Ronnie's southern borders and a rice in the jungle - hopefully, he's fine with the jungle border for us.
Lewis and Clark are in a little danger from a lion, but on a forest hill, they should be fine. There is a bear around where they are (north of the general and near his scout - maybe i should warn him about that)
Attachments
AutomatedTeller
Frequent poster
Exploration
I find the ruins of America
looking at the spoiler, I feel bad for Viva - I would have been fine with backing up 2 turns so he didn't get screwed
Internals
I found AT's Resort - one thing about Viva being out is that everyone can see that I have founded a 2nd city, since there are only 5 cities in the world!!
I'm researching hinduism, which, if I get, will be nice. I'll get a nice boost to culture from it.
I have the two cities connected - maintenance is up, but I'm making more money. I have whales just outside where my borders would be in AT's resort - too bad I won't get them in fat cross, but whales are a LOOONG way off, so I'm not too unhappy.
Building a warrior in AT's Resort.
Diplomacy
Talking with Memphus - he's definitely going for Oracle. He's got BW and, i assume, 1 worker, since he's talking about chopping. I will have to take a look and see when his city grew, see if it's possible he is bluffing about a worker or not
He's probably had priesthood for 9 turns now, making 5 hammers/turn, so he's building at 7 hammers/turn (for Oracle), or 23 turns. A forest takes 4 turns to move and chop, for 19 or 30 hammers/chop/, or 4.25 or 7.5 hammer/turn.
Can I catch him? I get hinduism in 5 turns, plus 2 for priesthood. It kind of depends on if he actually does have a worker or not and how many shields he has invested. He also says he has axemen, so that's 35 hammers he's invested there. I'll have to check is city growth to see if he could have a worker or not - I know he was running really low hammers for awhile.
I find the ruins of America
looking at the spoiler, I feel bad for Viva - I would have been fine with backing up 2 turns so he didn't get screwed
Internals
I found AT's Resort - one thing about Viva being out is that everyone can see that I have founded a 2nd city, since there are only 5 cities in the world!!
I'm researching hinduism, which, if I get, will be nice. I'll get a nice boost to culture from it.
I have the two cities connected - maintenance is up, but I'm making more money. I have whales just outside where my borders would be in AT's resort - too bad I won't get them in fat cross, but whales are a LOOONG way off, so I'm not too unhappy.
Building a warrior in AT's Resort.
Diplomacy
Talking with Memphus - he's definitely going for Oracle. He's got BW and, i assume, 1 worker, since he's talking about chopping. I will have to take a look and see when his city grew, see if it's possible he is bluffing about a worker or not
He's probably had priesthood for 9 turns now, making 5 hammers/turn, so he's building at 7 hammers/turn (for Oracle), or 23 turns. A forest takes 4 turns to move and chop, for 19 or 30 hammers/chop/, or 4.25 or 7.5 hammer/turn.
Can I catch him? I get hinduism in 5 turns, plus 2 for priesthood. It kind of depends on if he actually does have a worker or not and how many shields he has invested. He also says he has axemen, so that's 35 hammers he's invested there. I'll have to check is city growth to see if he could have a worker or not - I know he was running really low hammers for awhile.
AutomatedTeller
Frequent poster
Ok, I'm spending WAY more time on this than I think is healthy, but what the heck.
From the demographics, I'm seeing Memphus's growth as looking like this:
Year Size hammers GNP Food
2640 5 5 33 18
2680 5 5 33 18
2720 5 5 33 18
2760 4 3 29 18
2800 4 2 33 18
2840 4 2 32 18
2880 4 2 32 18
2920 4 2 32 18
2960 4 1 32 15
3000 4 1 32 17
3040 4 1 28 14
3080 3 1 29 14
3120 3 1 27 14
3160 3 1 26 14
3200 2 1 25 11
He's got a lot of sea food resources, is my guess (3 turn growth from 3 to 4!! ) I think he's working 2 seafood now.
In any case, I think he built a worker once he got to size 4 - it's possible he did it earlier, but i htink he grew a lot and built workboats.
I think he's been building oracle for 3 turns, at 7 (total) hammer/turn. so, he's 21 hammers in and needs 129 to go.
I'm 8 turns from being able to start, but when I start, I'll be able to give 6 base, 15 total, plus 50 shields for each of 1 forest and 32 from 1 other, so I'll be able to build it in 12 turns from now. If he chops 2 forests in that time, he'll beat me to it. Maybe I should have gone meditation - I would have got there faster and he would have had no warning - now, he'll know once I found hinduism that I'm not far from oracle myself...
I dunno if I can get it
From the demographics, I'm seeing Memphus's growth as looking like this:
Year Size hammers GNP Food
2640 5 5 33 18
2680 5 5 33 18
2720 5 5 33 18
2760 4 3 29 18
2800 4 2 33 18
2840 4 2 32 18
2880 4 2 32 18
2920 4 2 32 18
2960 4 1 32 15
3000 4 1 32 17
3040 4 1 28 14
3080 3 1 29 14
3120 3 1 27 14
3160 3 1 26 14
3200 2 1 25 11
He's got a lot of sea food resources, is my guess (3 turn growth from 3 to 4!! ) I think he's working 2 seafood now.
In any case, I think he built a worker once he got to size 4 - it's possible he did it earlier, but i htink he grew a lot and built workboats.
I think he's been building oracle for 3 turns, at 7 (total) hammer/turn. so, he's 21 hammers in and needs 129 to go.
I'm 8 turns from being able to start, but when I start, I'll be able to give 6 base, 15 total, plus 50 shields for each of 1 forest and 32 from 1 other, so I'll be able to build it in 12 turns from now. If he chops 2 forests in that time, he'll beat me to it. Maybe I should have gone meditation - I would have got there faster and he would have had no warning - now, he'll know once I found hinduism that I'm not far from oracle myself...
I dunno if I can get it
AutomatedTeller
Frequent poster
Thoughts
It has occurred to me that AT's Resort could be a huge wonder building city - I have marble (ToA, Parthenon, Great Lib), gold (Shwedegon Paya), should have ivory (Statue of Zeus) - and at size 6 it will make 16 hammers - for any of those wonders, that's 40 hammers per turn!! For the Lighthouse, that's still 24, which is less 9 turns.
I should be able to get at least half of those if I work at it.
Diplomacy
Ronnie has asked where I was thinking of drawing a line for expansion - I mentioned the jungle line, then saw the horses. I don't think he'll be happy with me there and, frankly, I'm not sure it would be very defendable anyway!!
The General and I are talking about peace - I think he has an agreement with memphus. He seems a bit nervous about his position, being near memphus. Maybe he doesn't have iron nearby?
It has occurred to me that AT's Resort could be a huge wonder building city - I have marble (ToA, Parthenon, Great Lib), gold (Shwedegon Paya), should have ivory (Statue of Zeus) - and at size 6 it will make 16 hammers - for any of those wonders, that's 40 hammers per turn!! For the Lighthouse, that's still 24, which is less 9 turns.
I should be able to get at least half of those if I work at it.
Diplomacy
Ronnie has asked where I was thinking of drawing a line for expansion - I mentioned the jungle line, then saw the horses. I don't think he'll be happy with me there and, frankly, I'm not sure it would be very defendable anyway!!
The General and I are talking about peace - I think he has an agreement with memphus. He seems a bit nervous about his position, being near memphus. Maybe he doesn't have iron nearby?
AutomatedTeller
Frequent poster
yes, that is true. I may wait on wonders till I get forges and I get big enough for them not to take too much time.
Memphus tried to get me interested in ToA, which is interesting for the future (free priest is nice and double trade routes is useful... but I dunno that I can get foreign trade routes as easily in human game).
And I have to figure out research, as well.
I think archery is a no-brainer for next - everyone should know where copper is by now, so there are axes in the world.
After that, I have three choices:
Pottery
Writing
Monotheism
Pottery
I think my cap will end up being a military center - it has a couple of hills, but a lot of plains, so it's not a great cottage center and the wineries will really help with commerce, anyway, so I think my next build there will be a barracks for growth and an archer once I have archery, then barracks/chop a settler, then a couple more archers. I'll pay some upkeep for those, but if I farm a couple of wines, I should be able to handle dropping science some.
I was thinking of making the city by the banana's a cottage city, but that's not a great idea at first, I think - the desert hill with gold is nice, but I need 2 farms to be able to support it, so I'll have bananas, gems, ivory, gold and 2 farms before I can consider a cottage.
What does this mean? Well, I don't know that I need a cottage for a long, long time, so I think pottery doesn't make sense.
Writing
Gives me access to alphabet, if the general isn't going there or wont' trade it to me - alpha gets me forges, which are important for me (trade with memphus)
Gets me libs and scientists, for academies/bulbing - Memphus's research worries me.
I think that's a decent option.
Writing ALSO opens up Aesthetics, which opens up literature, which opens up the GLib, which may be really important for me - 2 free scientists give me better research and better shots at great scientists for bulbing. Also, I can get drama and my UB, which, combined with a religion, gives me 5 cpt a turn!! (1 for religion, 3 for pavilion, +25% for pavilion) - all for 40 hammers.
Monotheism
2nd religion is nice.
Organized religion helps with infrastructure builds, a lot - with forges, that's a 50% boost to buildings, which gives a bonus much faster than forges alone. However, since I suspect my best production centers will build mainly military and workers for the time being, it's not all that useful.
So, it sounds like writing is next after archery.
Memphus tried to get me interested in ToA, which is interesting for the future (free priest is nice and double trade routes is useful... but I dunno that I can get foreign trade routes as easily in human game).
And I have to figure out research, as well.
I think archery is a no-brainer for next - everyone should know where copper is by now, so there are axes in the world.
After that, I have three choices:
Pottery
Writing
Monotheism
Pottery
I think my cap will end up being a military center - it has a couple of hills, but a lot of plains, so it's not a great cottage center and the wineries will really help with commerce, anyway, so I think my next build there will be a barracks for growth and an archer once I have archery, then barracks/chop a settler, then a couple more archers. I'll pay some upkeep for those, but if I farm a couple of wines, I should be able to handle dropping science some.
I was thinking of making the city by the banana's a cottage city, but that's not a great idea at first, I think - the desert hill with gold is nice, but I need 2 farms to be able to support it, so I'll have bananas, gems, ivory, gold and 2 farms before I can consider a cottage.
What does this mean? Well, I don't know that I need a cottage for a long, long time, so I think pottery doesn't make sense.
Writing
Gives me access to alphabet, if the general isn't going there or wont' trade it to me - alpha gets me forges, which are important for me (trade with memphus)
Gets me libs and scientists, for academies/bulbing - Memphus's research worries me.
I think that's a decent option.
Writing ALSO opens up Aesthetics, which opens up literature, which opens up the GLib, which may be really important for me - 2 free scientists give me better research and better shots at great scientists for bulbing. Also, I can get drama and my UB, which, combined with a religion, gives me 5 cpt a turn!! (1 for religion, 3 for pavilion, +25% for pavilion) - all for 40 hammers.
Monotheism
2nd religion is nice.
Organized religion helps with infrastructure builds, a lot - with forges, that's a 50% boost to buildings, which gives a bonus much faster than forges alone. However, since I suspect my best production centers will build mainly military and workers for the time being, it's not all that useful.
So, it sounds like writing is next after archery.
Krill
Deity
Metal casting gives forges, not alphabet.
AutomatedTeller
Frequent poster
That's what the civilopedia says!! But I know a way to make it happen
Actually, there are two ways I could get forges from alphabet. The slow way is spies. The fast way is that memphus said he'd trade metal casting for alphabet
Krill
Deity
That infomation would be useful for making judgements...
AutomatedTeller
Frequent poster
I did mention that alpha would give me forges (trade with memphus) hey - I'm just happy someone is getting some use from this and it's not just a journal
AutomatedTeller
Frequent poster
So, I've been doing some thinking.
I have several targets in this game, which aren't compatible.
1) Machinery, for Cho-ko-nu.
2) Drama, for pavillion (best culture/hammer ratio in teh game, especially with the 25% bonus - with a religion in the city, that's a 2 turn expansion)
3) Engineering, for cheap castles, obviously after machinery (since machinery is a pre-req for engineering)
I have 3 paths to machinery, assuming I can trade for Metal Casting:
1) Tech there - it's 840 beakers, which is expensive, plus distracts me from going up the line to literature
2) Bulb with engineer - machinery is the first choice for a GE, so that will work - problem is, it will take 34 turns (unless I build HG or Pyramids, but those take a long time without stone)
3) Bulb with scientists. Machinery isnt' a high priority for a scientist - to get it, you need Aesthetics, Math, Calendar, Compass, Iron Working, and Sailing, and not have prereq's for philo (meditation and either CoL or drama). Since I want drama, this route means no monasteries. I can get two scientists with writing and the Glib gives me 2 more, plus a bonus for scientists, so that would be 14/turn.
My thinking is this:
Tech archery->pottery->writing->alphabet. Trade for MC from memphus and IW from the General - hopefully, I have iron. Assuming I do (which I need for my cho-ko-nu),
then aesthetics->lit, build the glib and national epic, and hope for either a engineer or 2 scientists.
hopefully trade for math and research sailing->calendar. Bulb either machinery (engineer) or compass->engineer. Finally, go back for monarchy.
City builds:
A few archers in the Resort, while the cap chops a settler for the banana city and then a granary->lib->barracks->military.
Banana city gets bananas irrigated,
One worry is that Ronnie took a dive in GNP and a rise in manufacturing, plus someone has a spike in soldiers, so ronnie may be creating axemen. That would be bad luck for me, to have 2 opponents with copper in the fat cross (or maybe he's building chariots) - if it's axes, I probably have time to build archers - if it's chariots, I may not
I have several targets in this game, which aren't compatible.
1) Machinery, for Cho-ko-nu.
2) Drama, for pavillion (best culture/hammer ratio in teh game, especially with the 25% bonus - with a religion in the city, that's a 2 turn expansion)
3) Engineering, for cheap castles, obviously after machinery (since machinery is a pre-req for engineering)
I have 3 paths to machinery, assuming I can trade for Metal Casting:
1) Tech there - it's 840 beakers, which is expensive, plus distracts me from going up the line to literature
2) Bulb with engineer - machinery is the first choice for a GE, so that will work - problem is, it will take 34 turns (unless I build HG or Pyramids, but those take a long time without stone)
3) Bulb with scientists. Machinery isnt' a high priority for a scientist - to get it, you need Aesthetics, Math, Calendar, Compass, Iron Working, and Sailing, and not have prereq's for philo (meditation and either CoL or drama). Since I want drama, this route means no monasteries. I can get two scientists with writing and the Glib gives me 2 more, plus a bonus for scientists, so that would be 14/turn.
My thinking is this:
Tech archery->pottery->writing->alphabet. Trade for MC from memphus and IW from the General - hopefully, I have iron. Assuming I do (which I need for my cho-ko-nu),
then aesthetics->lit, build the glib and national epic, and hope for either a engineer or 2 scientists.
hopefully trade for math and research sailing->calendar. Bulb either machinery (engineer) or compass->engineer. Finally, go back for monarchy.
City builds:
A few archers in the Resort, while the cap chops a settler for the banana city and then a granary->lib->barracks->military.
Banana city gets bananas irrigated,
One worry is that Ronnie took a dive in GNP and a rise in manufacturing, plus someone has a spike in soldiers, so ronnie may be creating axemen. That would be bad luck for me, to have 2 opponents with copper in the fat cross (or maybe he's building chariots) - if it's axes, I probably have time to build archers - if it's chariots, I may not
regoarrarr
King
Wouldn't 34 turns after a forge be sooner than detouring for all those other techs? I mean I know that you do want those other techs too but just didn't know if you'd considered that
AutomatedTeller
Frequent poster
that is the other option, of course.
What I think I'm going to end up doing is:
Getting alphabet and trading for MC, perhaps pottery, as well.
Teching to the GLib.
Figuring out where I am then.
It kind of depends on if Memphus is going to Literature (assuming that no one else tries, too).
I could also try for HG, to boost my GE production - with a forge and my bonus, that's 1.75, but it won't do more than take off an extra point or so.
oh - I need fishing, too. I keep thinking I have it.
I switched research to get archery first and am building walls in the cap until it grows to size 3, then it will be build a couple of archers while I chop a settler, so it continues to grow. Then I'll go back to polytheism. The world is dangerous now, with axemen and chariots, so it's time for my ability to turtle up to start making an impact. Need to be a tough target...
What I think I'm going to end up doing is:
Getting alphabet and trading for MC, perhaps pottery, as well.
Teching to the GLib.
Figuring out where I am then.
It kind of depends on if Memphus is going to Literature (assuming that no one else tries, too).
I could also try for HG, to boost my GE production - with a forge and my bonus, that's 1.75, but it won't do more than take off an extra point or so.
oh - I need fishing, too. I keep thinking I have it.
I switched research to get archery first and am building walls in the cap until it grows to size 3, then it will be build a couple of archers while I chop a settler, so it continues to grow. Then I'll go back to polytheism. The world is dangerous now, with axemen and chariots, so it's time for my ability to turtle up to start making an impact. Need to be a tough target...
AutomatedTeller
Frequent poster
Memphus has writing - actually, he had writing last turn, I didn't notice.
I can, if I want, sign open borders with him.
He's made a deal to not go for alpha, so where is he going? I need to think, cause I'm not sure that chasing Memphus for wonders is a smart thing - though, he can really only beat me to one.
I can, if I want, sign open borders with him.
He's made a deal to not go for alpha, so where is he going? I need to think, cause I'm not sure that chasing Memphus for wonders is a smart thing - though, he can really only beat me to one.
