What is the relationship between the %'s listed in the mission and the impact on the target city? They don't match up (that is, the mission says the spy spreads 5% culture, but the city is no more Dutch after the cute lil' red-headed spy successfully completes and romps back to Amsterdam than it was before she did her deed).
Spy Spreading Culture
- Thread starter Mknn
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Supr49er
2011 Thunderfall Cup
I'm not sure what you mean.
Let's say that Moscow is 5% Dutch. What % Dutch will it be after a successful mission?
Rusty Edge
Deity
I'm not sure what you mean.
Let's say that Moscow is 5% Dutch. What % Dutch will it be after a successful mission?
I think the increase per mission is base (5% Dutch ) x 5% = +0.25%, so it rounds out to no discernable increase after rounding at first... Or maybe it adds a straight 5%, but it's applied randomly or uniformly to tiles within the fat cross. I don't know.
It seems to me that culture judo works better with a combination of spy missions, such as those that reduce the number of surrounding tiles to be worked, those that sabotage existing cultural improvements as well as those under construction. It also helps to temporarily boost the culture sliders for nearby cities and/or the spy & culture sliders for your civ.
Think of it as the fable of the crow filling the vase with gravel to raise the water level enough to get a drink - if you're putting culture into a city faster than your neighbor you'll eventually aquire the city- but it requires patience and persistence.
Bushface
Deity
The "spread culture" mission is, in my experience, useless. Yoy can't perform it unless thereis already some of your culture in the city, which requires one of your cities to be culturally powerful and close enough to the target for the latter to be within your city's cultural radius, and the incremental effect of spread-culture missions is negligibly small. I once tried sending hordes of spies to see what happened, amd after several dozen missions (at ever-increasing costs in EPs) my culture was still rising by only 1 or 2% per turn - which trend continued after I got tired of sending spies, thanks to the culture from my nearby cities.
Anyway, even if the enemy city is totally surrounded by your territory, is weakly defended, and does not have its owner's state religion present, it still may not flip. There is only a 10% chance per turn that flippability will be tested, and there is always some chance that even then flipping may not occur.
Anyway, even if the enemy city is totally surrounded by your territory, is weakly defended, and does not have its owner's state religion present, it still may not flip. There is only a 10% chance per turn that flippability will be tested, and there is always some chance that even then flipping may not occur.
Rusty Edge
Deity
I think I flipped 4 out of 5 cities attempted last game.
Empiremaker
Human Fish
I haven't tried this recently, so it may have been changed in a patch, but spread culture is nice because you can get the full fat cross as soon as the city comes out of revolt. I think it also helps to reduce the revolt time.
MrCynical
Deity
The spread culture mission doesn't do remotely what you'd expect from the description. It adds the culture in a very odd way, which means that it will neither change the culture values or percentages seen in the city screen, or have any effect on the chance of flipping the city or the surrounding tiles.
It isn't 100% useless. A mission will fractionally (~2.5%) reduce the cost of future espionage missions on the tile. Also if you capture the city then immediately it comes out of revolt, it'll have a chunk of your culture, giving an immediate border expansion.
It is however completely useless for actually flipping the cities.
It isn't 100% useless. A mission will fractionally (~2.5%) reduce the cost of future espionage missions on the tile. Also if you capture the city then immediately it comes out of revolt, it'll have a chunk of your culture, giving an immediate border expansion.
It is however completely useless for actually flipping the cities.
It sounds like nobody is quite sure exactly how it works. Fair enough.
The Dutch have only built 6 cities in this game. Their empire now has 13--6 flips from culture, one new city because culture took over empty space that allowed a mid game settler. So, clearly, culture flipping happens ...
Also, just to add some concrete knowledge to the thread. Cities need to revolt at least twice to flip from culture. The first revolt will never lead to a flip, but from the 2nd on, there is a chance. So, the "support city revolt" mission has a use to aid in culture flipping as well. These cities flipped with around 55-65% Dutch culture.
The Dutch have only built 6 cities in this game. Their empire now has 13--6 flips from culture, one new city because culture took over empty space that allowed a mid game settler. So, clearly, culture flipping happens ...
Also, just to add some concrete knowledge to the thread. Cities need to revolt at least twice to flip from culture. The first revolt will never lead to a flip, but from the 2nd on, there is a chance. So, the "support city revolt" mission has a use to aid in culture flipping as well. These cities flipped with around 55-65% Dutch culture.
KrikkitTwo
Immortal
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2004
- Messages
- 12,418
The fact is the Spy mission works like a VERY weak Great Artist, it adds culture directly to the city (the amount you need to reach border pops, and defend against spies) but indirectly to the city Tile (the amount you need to flip cities/tiles) Because it is so weak (5% of the city's normal total culture) it typically won't affect that much
Example
Moscow was founded 10 turns ago and made 10 culture/turn
the city has 100 culture
the Tile has 300 culture (20 extra culture/turn from having a border pop)
a spy comes in
the spy will add 5 culture (5% of 100)
so now the city has 100 Russian culture, and 5 X culture
the Tile has 300 Russian culture and 5 X culture
if Moscow was founded 100 turns ago and made 1 culture pre turn
100 city culture
1820 tile culture
the spy still adds 5 city + tile culture
so its primary uses are
1. get a border pop ready for when your troops 'liberate' the city
2. reduce the cost for future spy missions
Example
Moscow was founded 10 turns ago and made 10 culture/turn
the city has 100 culture
the Tile has 300 culture (20 extra culture/turn from having a border pop)
a spy comes in
the spy will add 5 culture (5% of 100)
so now the city has 100 Russian culture, and 5 X culture
the Tile has 300 Russian culture and 5 X culture
if Moscow was founded 100 turns ago and made 1 culture pre turn
100 city culture
1820 tile culture
the spy still adds 5 city + tile culture
so its primary uses are
1. get a border pop ready for when your troops 'liberate' the city
2. reduce the cost for future spy missions
3. Make liberation more likely in the future.
I found it useless, unless you already have at least 20% culture in that city. I think of culture as the spread of people from a city... some people may choose to live and work over-the-border because of opportunity. As more people move there, local government sways to their favor and can ask to become of your empire.
If you don't have a reasonable percent of culture in that city already (or it's like sub-10%), it's a waste of EP. On the other hand, if you can take their second city after your own REX, you have further advantage.
I found it useless, unless you already have at least 20% culture in that city. I think of culture as the spread of people from a city... some people may choose to live and work over-the-border because of opportunity. As more people move there, local government sways to their favor and can ask to become of your empire.
If you don't have a reasonable percent of culture in that city already (or it's like sub-10%), it's a waste of EP. On the other hand, if you can take their second city after your own REX, you have further advantage.
Shekwan
Kim Chi Quaffing Celt
I always wondered how a spy spread culture. Maybe McDonalds is a secret CIA program devised to spread American culture worldwide...
KrikkitTwo
Immortal
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2004
- Messages
- 12,418
Report 495070-ti, observation on subject started
ICNP
The Third Superpower
I've used it mainly to push back the culture of my opponent. It also causes some unhappiness (marginal cosindering foment is SO much cheaper). While I still didn't have aluminum (which was so close to my border) in time for my space ship I did atleast find something I could do with all my build up EP.
GIO888
King
Yeah,
Only use is if the AI city is a lone outpost on your continent, then put it into revolt a couple times with spies, then add culture, the combo seems to make it quicker to flip, but that's all.
With the AI so active with spies themselves, I kind of like it isn't too overpowered!
Only use is if the AI city is a lone outpost on your continent, then put it into revolt a couple times with spies, then add culture, the combo seems to make it quicker to flip, but that's all.
With the AI so active with spies themselves, I kind of like it isn't too overpowered!
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