ST4 - Emperor Tweak

[TedJackson]

Originally posted by jmansell02
Move 2 Spearmen to defend 2hp archer in mongol territory, it is threatened by an archer and a settler.

You've got to watch out for those Mongol Settlers... they're really mean

It sounds like you've got things well under control there. Have a nice cold


regards

Ted

p.s. it's rather warm in Norfolk too

 

[Snaproll]

Nice job on the Mongol Iron - that's exactly what I hoped would happen. Looking forward to the rest of your report.

Edit: Updated First Page

 

[jmansell02]

630BC (Continued) - I destroy a barb camp, probably the last on the island, and move our southernmost settler into position to found a city next turn.

IT - The Mongol retaliation comes in the form of an archer and two swordsmen, one regular and one veteran. The Swordsmen were fended off by two veteran spears. Hopefully that will be the last of those dreaded stabbers. Also, a barb horse in the south kills our archer.

610BC - Our assault is fast running out of steam, I fall back to repair our forces. Poitiers founded. Starts on temple.

590BC - The Mongols have really run out of gas. The best forces they can muster to send at us are pitiful... 1 warrior. Toulouse founded. Starts on temple.

IT - Okay Okay, I take bake what I said about you Temmy. 2 Archers a warrior and a Swordsman pound against my troops, cutting them down to size.

570BC - Bayonne founded on the ruins of Kazan, we now have iron. I retreat all forces to newly founded Bayonne. We should be able to attack the Mongol forces as they come in in drips and drabs and, since we can easially out produce the Mongols, we should then be able to move in with swords.

I'll leave it there, only playing five turns as I got to wage war, or as Ceasar would say "bellum gerere".

Notes to Lord all mighty:

Just one: The final city should go 1 tile N and one tile NE of the tip of the Western Penisula.

Also I have tried and tried but I cannot for the life of me upload this stupid sved gamed, so I have e-mailed it to Snaproll, hopefully he'll be able to upload the file. Note To Snaproll : CHECK YOUR E-MAIL!!!

 

[Snaproll]

Current Roster:
Dark Savant
Puzzlinon - Up!
TedJackson
Jmansell - Just played
Lord_all_Mighty - Up!
Snaproll - On deck

Keep it going guys - the Mongols are hopeless. Just keep settling and try and get some contacts!

Jmansell's Game

 

[Puzzlinon]

For the lurkers:



Looking good.

(The warrior guarding the Avignon forest can probably find other employment now, since we're not likely to see many more mongol settlers wandering down that way.)

 

[Snaproll]

edit: nevermind

 

[Snaproll]

Hi guys - sorry about the delay but I wanted to give Lord All Mighty a little longer to claim this. Doesn't look like he's going to (Lord, are you there?), so I am forced to skip him. I'm up, and I'll get to it after work. Don't worry, this game is still going strong!

Current Roster:
Dark Savant - On Deck
Puzzlinon - Up!
TedJackson
Jmansell - Just played
Lord_all_Mighty - Skipped!
Snaproll - Up!

edit: Updated First page summary.

 

[Dark Savant]

Are we going to get rid of the cities of Chartres and Marseilles shortly?

Temporary cities in succession games have a way of becoming permanent. If we do disband them, there's no rush to get rid of Chartres, but I think the best place to re-place Marseilles is 1 square to the NW of it. Once we have enough military just build workers and settlers out of them until they are gone.

I think we should get cracking on a FP, somewhere. I'm still voting for Orleans, but I want to see what the others have to say.

Also, you may want to whip progress towards the buildings on West Peninsula -- next turn Grenoble will be able to partial-whip 20 shields via a barracks, for instance. We should probably build harbors before temples in the cities with poor food over t here.

 

[Snaproll]

Turn 0 – 570 BC – Switch some cities from Archers to swords. I agree with DS that we need to move Marseilles. After we take Karakorum I will. I also think we should start FP in Orleans, but we need to replace Mongol cities so we’ll need 1-2 more settlers I think.

Turn 1 – 550 BC – Mongols are up wheel and Mysticism, while we are up Lit and MM. Probabl just take those two techs pointy stick. Units are healing up right now. I am not sure about the city placement on the other peninsula – Didn’t we talk about changing that dot map? My fault for not doing it. Partial rush barracks as DS suggested in Grenoble. Orleans produce settler, starts rax.

Turn 2 – 530 BC – All units healed in Bayonne. Move them towards Karakorum. 2 archers and a sword attack the stack, and manage to kill the spear. Change Tours from Harbor to temple – it’s got enough food for now, and needs happiness.

Turn 3 – 510 BC – Kill that sword.

Turn 4 – 490 BC – No counterattack! I change Marseilles to low food – start disbanding it.

Turn 5 – 470 BC – Chinese complete colossus. I start building more galleys – we are going to have to go suicide if we want any chance. Ohhh – I might have found more coast!! We attack Karakorum with 4 archers (swords about to get in range) Our first 3 archers kill 3 spears, and then our last dies trying to kill an archer!

Turn 6 – 450 BC – Mongols get another spear – waiting for sword. Yes I have found more coast, but the island it leads too looks uninhabited.

Turn 7 – 430 BC – Swords almost in place to attack. Partial rush temple in Dijon.

Turn 8 – 410 BC – Rush partial temple in Poiters. Island looks big but uninhabited.

Turn 9 – 390 BC – TERRIBLE RNG luck trying to take Karakorum. Sorry about this. I had to pull back until we could get overwhelming force. I though after killing those 3 spears we could walk in, but I was wrong.

Turn 10 – 370 BC – Pulling back forces. Galley is exploring new world. Sorry about short report and any . I am severly distracted tonight - in fact I thought about asking for a skip. Only major weed was going after Karakorum without an overwhelming force. I have killed 5 spears in there though, and several swords are on the way, so next player should be good. Replace with our two settlers and keep looking for contacts.

The Game

 

[Snaproll]

Current Roster:
Dark Savant - Up!
Puzzlinon - On deck
TedJackson
Jmansell -
Lord_all_Mighty -
Snaproll - Just Played

 

[TedJackson]

Hey Snaproll,

don't beat yourself up. Looks fine to me

I'm more concerned with the lack of contacts. I think we need to build a bigger fleet and maybe try a few suicide galleys if our current exploration doesn't pay off.


regards

Ted

 

[Snaproll]

I agree Ted. I started 2 more galleys, but we're likely to need even more than that.

 

[Dark Savant]

Don't worry, sometimes the RNG goes seriously badly against you in ancient warfare. There's no way the Mongols are ever going to catch up to us.

I got it and should be able to play my 10 turns by tomorrow if I cannot play them tonight. Goals are:

(1) build more galley and have them explore
(2) get settlers over to the newly discovered islands
(3) slaughter Mongols
(4) perhaps get a wonder build or two going -- I'll have to see about that

 

[Dark Savant]

Inherited turn: Swap Grenoble, Cherbourg, Poitiers, Toulouse, and Amiens to harbors. Rheims and Besancon swap to galleys. I raise lux tax to 30% -- several cities were about to riot. I do not see a reason to run Philosophy at minimum -- I raise science all the way to 70%, and Philosophy is now due in 3 turns instead of 18 turns. I swap Bayonne to a temple and whip 20s towards it. We have some cash to burn so I upgrade one regular warrior to a sword for 40g. I move Dijon's spear to the hill outside of the city to make sure that a barb camp does not appear nearby.

I think we can actually build wonders in Paris -- F11 says that both Kyoto and Moscow are size 1, Madrid is size 3, Beijing is size 6, and as for the Mongols, they're hopeless.

350 BC (1) [IT: Whoops, I forgot to check military positioning -- a sword and archer attacking out of Karakorum kill our fortified spear.] Lyons sword -> settler; we're going to need these to settle all the newly discovered islands. Chartres sword -> settler. Hmm, I think I'll have Rouen make a settler instead of a galley.

330 BC (2) [IT: we fend off an attacking Mongol archer.] Our troops are gathering and resting for a fresh assault on Karakorum. I relocate some of our workers away from West Peninsula: that area isn't going to be productive for a long time since we cannot irrigate there, and our core still needs some work. Whip 20s towards a harbor in Amiens.

310 BC (3) [IT: a solitary Mongol archer moves next to Bayonne.] Philosophy discovered. Paris library -> Great Library. I think we can beat the AI's to this; if we don't, go ahead and blame me for it. Orleans sword -> Forbidden Palace. Tours sword -> settler. Marseilles settler -> settler. Rouen settler -> spear. Whip galley in Besancon. The Mongol archer next to Bayonne is killed by a sword. I upgrade another regular warrior to a sword for 40g. I begin research on Code of Laws, due in 7 turns at -13gpt.

290 BC (4) Orleans riots. Avignon galley -> harbor. Besancon galley -> granary. 6 swords, 2 archers, and a sword begin to advance on Karakorum.

270 BC (5) Lyons settler -> granary. Rheims galley -> spear. Our SoD advances next to Karakorum. I need to up lux tax to 40% -- we could really use a second lux! Whip a harbor in Amiens -- this city is going to be unhappy from the whip for quite some time now.

250 BC (6) Amiens harbor -> granary. St. Petersburg completes the Great Lighthouse. It's time for the grand assault on Karakorum! It turns out that the visible veteran spear is the only defender, though it costs us one veteran sword. I decide to raze Karakorum (we get 10g in the process), because it's one away from the coast and it's an enemy capital. Our elite archer kills an archer near the ruins; no leader. Strasbourg founded -- this city has first-ring overlap near an existing Mongol village; it starts on a temple. The rest of the stack advances on Ta-Tu, the new Mongol capital. I sell the barracks in Marseilles and Chartres.

230 BC (7) [IT: The Mongols want peace, calling us a "marginally worthy foe". Ha! ] Tours settler -> granary. Dijon temple -> harbor. Whip 18 shields towards the granary in Rouen. I join three workers into Paris to hasten construction of the Great Library. (This is a Sirian game, so I'd rather not do this systematically -- just occasionally in key situations like this.) Brest founded very close to Ta-Tu; this city will just claim space, it won't ever be useful because it's in such bad terrain. It starts a temple. I move some of our mighty army next to Ta-Tu.

210 BC (8) [IT: A Mongol archer from Almarikh kills the spear in Strasbourg. ] Our Palace expands. Assault on Almarikh: no losses, 2 spears killed, and Almarikh is autorazed for 12g. I continue to assemble troops outside of Ta-Tu.

190 BC (9) Rheims spear -> spear. Cherbourg harbor -> temple. Whip 20 shields towards the harbor in Toulouse. Assault on Ta-Tu: we lose one sword, but kill 3 spears, capture 2 workers and 15g, and raze the city. We now have incense online; I can drop lux tax to 30%. I think it's time to make peace with the Mongols. I get the city of Tabriz, his World Map, 77g, The Wheel, and Mysticism (all Temujin has) for peace. Temujin also has Horseback Riding, but no other techs. We have one source of Horses, right next to Paris and already connected.

170 BC (10) Code of Laws discovered. Whip 19 shields towards Cherbourg's temple. Hmm ... if I slam science to 70% (we still need 30% lux tax), we can get The Republic in 14 turns. I think we should do this; we still don't have contact with anyone other than the Mongols, and there's no telling when we will make contact. I whip the rest of Bayonne's temple for 20s.

Hmm, I think someone played only 9 turns somewhere -- I'll play an extra turn to even out the years.

150 BC (11) Chartres settler -> worker. Grenoble harbor -> temple. Bayonne temple -> granary. Whip 19s towards Avignon's harbor. Bordeaux founded -> temple.

Notes to the following leaders:

* The Great Library is due in 14 turns; I'm currently re-mining irrigation around Paris to hasten it as much as I can. This may have been serious , but with the AI's building wonders so slowly and the AI capitals so small, I thought it was a worthwhile gamble, and I think we will more likely than not get it. We will get The Republic a couple turns before it completes; don't revolt before the Great Library gets built. If we do not make contact with anyone else, we should probably continue to press research even if we land the Great Library.

* If the group decides that Orleans is not where we want our FP, it can be switched off to a wonder prebuild, library, or courthouse by the next leader. If we don't build the FP in Orleans, we should figure out where to put it.

* Our galley that's way off in the west (actually, it's on the east edge of the minimap, having crossed the International Date Line) should probably try a suicide run off to the west.

* I have some settlers en route to the jungle-infested island that we found off West Peninsula. We can also still found a city at the tip of West Peninsula, but I don't think there's a rush for that location. Here is my proposed dot map for the newly discovered lands:



[EDIT: oops, green dot should be moved 1 square NE.]

* South of that island is another island that is still unexplored -- next leader should send a galley or two that way when they can be spared from the task of ferrying over settlers to the new territories.

* I've stationed some of our military to keep watch on territory so that barb camps don't sprout up there.

* I hired a scientist in Tours so that growth doesn't occur before the granary completes.

* I'm also running a scientist in Rheims -- this scientist together with the scientist in Tours brings us The Republic one turn faster.

* There is no big rush to finish off the Mongols -- they cannot build a settler in their last city, and I don't think the AI will build city improvements if it only has one city.

* Marseilles will disband when it finishes its settler in 2 turns -- re-found the city 1 square to the northwest. There's no big rush to disband Chartres, so I'm setting it to build workers until it's gone.

Download the save here!

 

[TedJackson]

Good work DS

Now if only we could meet some of our neighbours


regards

Ted

 

[Snaproll]

Good job DS. Glad you stuck it to the Mongols! I hope we can get the library, but I wouldn't be shocked if the cascade gets it soon. Worth a shot though. It will certainly ease the transition when we meet the rest of the world.

Note to all players: Don't wipe out the Monglos completely before we meet the rest of the world. We should be able to get a little something for our communications with them.

Current Roster:
Dark Savant - Just played
Puzzlinon - Up!
TedJackson - On Deck
Jmansell -
Lord_all_Mighty -
Snaproll -

 

[barron of ideas]

delurking:

So I can learn, if you don't want to revolt until the Great Library is built, why rush to Republic with extra scientists (as opposed to taxmen for income?)

relurking

 

[Puzzlinon]

The AI's will pay dearly for government techs, barron, and charge dearly for them. We want to be in the best trading position possible when we meet them. Also, there's a good chance we won't get the GL; if it completes elsewhere before we finish and/or meet others, we'd want to get into Republic whenever the timing is best (no wonders underway, no wars underway, etc.)

That said, the other option is also viable - just accumulate cash. But if we don't meet others soon, we could spend a -long- time in despotism.

And.. Got it! Will try to play tonight.

 

[Dark Savant]

Here are a couple responses and some comments:

Note to all players: Don't wipe out the Monglos completely before we meet the rest of the world. We should be able to get a little something for our communications with them.

Hmm ... I'm not sure what's the better course here. A communication with a one-city civ isn't going to be worth much, and if we let the world know that the outrageously stinky Mongols exist, they're going to play tattle-tale and tell the world of all our misdeeds. There will thus be a permanent attitude penalty if we let the Mongols stick around, and that will hurt us in the trading arena. We're going to be doing a lot of trading, since it's going to take forever for ships to reach non-Mongol foes.

So I can learn, if you don't want to revolt until the Great Library is built, why rush to Republic with extra scientists (as opposed to taxmen for income?)

It's a minor point, and Puzzlinon gave a good answer to this already, but I do need to run specialists in these two cities anyway; and while a scientist yields three flasks in this mod, a tax collector only gets two coins.

A couple more things that came to mind:

* The Great Library is the highest priority among wonders -- but we're also going to want to construct either the Hanging Gardens or the Great Wall. Both of these wonders are Industrious, which will help us get a Golden Age -- bear in mind that none of the Middle Ages wonders are Industrious, and if we miss these the next Industrious wonder is the Hoover Dam. The effects of both will be great too -- either we can cut down the absurd lux tax we're currently running, or we can get free city walls everywhere, including all these little colonies we're going to have. In fact, if possible, it may be worthwhile to swap Orleans over to one of these wonders if we make contact and get the relevant tech.

* I don't think we're going to be waging any kind of war (other than maybe polishing off the Mongols) until the late Middle Ages; everyone else is probably too far away. I think should focus on constructing infrastructure and Wonders during that time, and otherwise only get our military above the cardboard-cutout level.

* Even if we do make contact, I think we should finish research on The Republic if the AI's don't have it.

* Where the heck should we put the FP? If we don't build it in Orleans, I think Rheims is also a decent candidate, although Rheims is kind of far behind on infrastructure; it lacks a courthouse and doesn't even have a temple. I really don't see any other good location, and we do need to get moving on it.

 

[TedJackson]

Originally posted by Dark Savant

Hmm ... I'm not sure what's the better course here. A communication with a one-city civ isn't going to be worth much, and if we let the world know that the outrageously stinky Mongols exist, they're going to play tattle-tale and tell the world of all our misdeeds. There will thus be a permanent attitude penalty if we let the Mongols stick around, and that will hurt us in the trading arena. We're going to be doing a lot of trading, since it's going to take forever for ships to reach non-Mongol foes.

I agree that the Mongol contact is worthless. I would let the 20 turn peace expire and then wipe them out.

Originally posted by Dark Savant

* The Great Library is the highest priority among wonders -- but we're also going to want to construct either the Hanging Gardens or the Great Wall. Both of these wonders are Industrious, which will help us get a Golden Age -- bear in mind that none of the Middle Ages wonders are Industrious, and if we miss these the next Industrious wonder is the Hoover Dam. The effects of both will be great too -- either we can cut down the absurd lux tax we're currently running, or we can get free city walls everywhere, including all these little colonies we're going to have. In fact, if possible, it may be worthwhile to swap Orleans over to one of these wonders if we make contact and get the relevant tech.

To trigger our GA via wonders we have the choice of one each from:
Commercial:
Colossus (Bronze Working, AT) - Chinese
Great Lighthouse (Map Making, AT) - Russians
Magallan's Voyage (Navigation, MA)
Smith's (Economics, MA)
UN (Fission, MT)

Industrious:
Pyramids (Masonry, AT) - Chinese
Great Wall (Construction, AT)
Hanging Gardens (Monarchy, AT)
Hoover Dam (Electronics, IA)
Manhattan (Fission, MT)

So, from where we are now (Commercial first):
Magellan's (MA) or Smith's (MA) followed by Hoover Dam (IA)

or (Industrious first):
Great Wall (AT) or Hanging Gardens (AT) followed by Magellan's (MA) or Smith's (MA)

Originally posted by Dark Savant

* I don't think we're going to be waging any kind of war (other than maybe polishing off the Mongols) until the late Middle Ages; everyone else is probably too far away. I think should focus on constructing infrastructure and Wonders during that time, and otherwise only get our military above the cardboard-cutout level.
* Even if we do make contact, I think we should finish research on The Republic if the AI's don't have it.

Agreed.

Originally posted by Dark Savant

* Where the heck should we put the FP? If we don't build it in Orleans, I think Rheims is also a decent candidate, although Rheims is kind of far behind on infrastructure; it lacks a courthouse and doesn't even have a temple. I really don't see any other good location, and we do need to get moving on it.

Orleans seems the best choice, not that we have any real alternatives.


regards

Ted