Submarines

[MrHerpyDerp]

Today while playing a game, I decided to field a nuclear submarine force just because I've never done it before. I really started to enjoy them, I was blocking a lot of sea resources just by parking them. I however, came into a problem. Enemy caravels started bombarding my submarines. Can other units detect subs that I am not aware of?

I also dont know how to know how many tiles I am blocking with my sub.

 

[joncnunn]

In Civ V, its very easy to detect a nearby naval unit your at war with just by looking at each cities worked tiles.

Every sea unit blocks 1/2 of maximum movement points away; that includes embarked units.

 

[PhilBowles]

In Civ V, its very easy to detect a nearby naval unit your at war with just by looking at each cities worked tiles.

Every sea unit blocks 1/2 of maximum movement points away; that includes embarked units.

Hmm, that explains it - I had the same thing in the only game when I've so far built subs, but since I've never knowingly encountered the AI using subs, I haven't had a chance to look into how they're detected.

 

[Hammer Rabbi]

sounds like it negates the advantage of subs when destroyers and other subs should be the only ones to detect (and de facto attack) them. i was curious about this too when an ai caravel started attacking my sub.

 

[nokmirt]

In Civ V, its very easy to detect a nearby naval unit your at war with just by looking at each cities worked tiles.

Every sea unit blocks 1/2 of maximum movement points away; that includes embarked units.

That is ridiculous a caravel detects a nuke sub! Something is wrong with that picture. At least a destroyer or some modern vessel should be used for detecting subs. Something with a little invention known as sonar. And even if a lookout on the crows nest on board a caravel saw the sub, what could a caravel do to the sub with demi-culverins? Notta!

 

[PhilBowles]

That is ridiculous a caravel detects a nuke sub! Something is wrong with that picture. At least a destroyer or some modern vessel should be used for detecting subs. Something with a little invention known as sonar. And even if a lookout on the crows nest on board a caravel saw the sub, what could a caravel do to the sub with demi-culverins? Notta!

They could hypothetically add a complement of depth charges, I suppose.

I'm okay with Caravels (which the AI is very fond of in all eras) etc. attacking a sub if it's been detected, but having them able to detect it needs to be fixed.

Still, it sounds as though this is only an issue within an enemy's workable territory - subs probably should be best-used for hunting in the open ocean anyway. Perhaps it can be rationalised as a city maintaining sonar stations within its borders?

 

[King of Prussia]

Well if your sub is 2 tiles away from a city or if an unit is next to it. but what I don't get is why do I get the choice of having a land attack bonus or one verses naval units..

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I've had a sub attacked by a barbarian galley. It was near a barb camp. I don't know how they detected it. Pretty annoying if you ask me.

 

[joncnunn]

Hum, I wonder if trying to enter the tile containing the sub detects it.

Perhaps during debug stage the Civ III sub bug reappeared in Civ V and they patched it by disallowing AI from building them?

 

[qec]

Just park a couple Nukes on that sub and then blow the Caravels to Kingdom Come.

But seriously, yeah Caravels shouldn't be able to detect subs. Subs can't Melee attack either right so doesn't that mean that if an enemy unit lands on a tile a sub is on the sub is automatically destroyed? I thought I've lost subs before because of this reason, but may be mistaken because its been a while since I played a game where I trained any subs. I love Future era Naval units though, the missile cruiser is one of my favorite units.

 

[Ddude97]

Just park a couple Nukes on that sub and then blow the Caravels to Kingdom Come.

But seriously, yeah Caravels shouldn't be able to detect subs. Subs can't Melee attack either right so doesn't that mean that if an enemy unit lands on a tile a sub is on the sub is automatically destroyed? I thought I've lost subs before because of this reason, but may be mistaken because its been a while since I played a game where I trained any subs. I love Future era Naval units though, the missile cruiser is one of my favorite units.

I agree, caravels should not be able to detect subs, they probably shouldn't even be able to attack them (perhaps only things that can directly detect subs should be able to attack them, would boost their use/value tremendously I think).
And by the way, missile cruisers are a "modern" era unit, both in game and out

 

[Lunchmoney]

Subs can be detected by an enemy if they try to move onto the subs tile?
So would it not be a good idea to allow 1 sub to tile share with 1 surface vessel?
Game designers are you reading this?

 

[sesaMe]

all units detect subs on ajacent squares

destroyers and other subs detect subs from as far as they can see

considering most of yoru vision comes from air planes in naval era battles it seems fine

especially as subs have 3 range and 1shot everything smaller than a battleship if you built them out of a city with an armoury

 

[astrallite]

Even if you are under glacial ice, a barbarian archer on the coast can find and attack your nuclear sub. It's sad, and you can't attack back

 

[MrHerpyDerp]

If this is all true, the Devs have to be up to something.

Submarines are broken :S

 

[Camikaze]

I'm fairly sure what sesaMe says is right.

Even if you could detect a nearby submarine by looking at your worked tiles, you would not be able to actually attack it unless you can actually fully see the unit. If you can fully see the unit, then any unit within range will be able to attack.

 

[Catastrophe90]

Also, I *think* that Subs and Nuclear Subs aren't "stealthed" when in coastal tiles. I guess that it represents Subs not being able to dive much in shallow waters.

 

[Hammer Rabbi]

if that's the case with submarines, it should be fixed. it absolutely goes against any real stealth they have as well as not make any practical sense. ive used subs before and they were interesting until a caravel shot at one. i quit producing them after i realized anyone could see them. and it wasnt me who moved into an adjacent tile, it was the ai that did and then attacked.

the coastal tiles are fine. that makes sense regarding depth. but caravels out in the middle of the ocean seeing and attacking them defeated the desire to invent them in the first place.

 

[krc]

if that's the case with submarines, it should be fixed. it absolutely goes against any real stealth they have as well as not make any practical sense. ive used subs before and they were interesting until a caravel shot at one. i quit producing them after i realized anyone could see them.

I agree that it is not realistic (or "practical") for outdated units to see and fire on subs. But they remain extremely powerful when used correctly. Keep them in deep water. Move your destroyers around to locate the enemy fleet. Then enjoy the carnage when you move your sub into position to one-shot a fully loaded aircraft carrier....

 

[Gazurtoid]

The one feature I truly miss from Civ IV is the ability for subs to freely navigate within foreign territorial waters without having an open borders treaty. Great for sneaking around in someone's backyard to see what they're up to and I believe Civ IV's subs could carry spies.