Suggested Additions

[Civ4Gandalf13]

Please allow me to make a few suggestions for the 1.25 version to provide some more options and realism for the players.Many if not most of these are easy changes which should not be difficult to incorporate if accepted.

1) Allow players to sell buildings in their cities, say for half the cost and a quarter cost for obsolete buildings. Governments sell unused/old buildings all the time in the real world. Allows a player options to reduce pollution, obtain quick cash, and get something for obsolete buildings. Adds some realism. I think an older edition of CIV4 allowed this to happen.

2) Give workers/laborers a new ability: Plant a forest. This has been done since early times (and is automatically allowed in the game after a forest fire) but the game does not allow a player to do so intentionally. Allow the ability after Horticulture. Ability should be limited to Grassland and Plains tiles and should require some time (perhaps twenty turns) as Forests take time to grow.

3) Add a new ocean resource - Oysters with Pearls. It is an important real world industry. It is present in other CIV4 and should not be left out of this one.

4) Allow players to build a Fish Farm with a work boat - fish farming was done on the coasts since the time of the Romans. Represent it by a Fish symbol with an identifying part - such as a small red buoy. It must be built on a coast with at least two tile sides being coast.

5) Change the Barbarian Island Villages to provide a Ship instead of a land unit (which unrealistically appears on land masses often very far away and occasionally unrealistically appear in a neutral tile on a continent otherwise surrounded by a hostile Country) or allow the land units to stay on the atoll/island until they are picked up by a friendly ship.

6) Marketplaces were the center of life in urban environment until modern times, both socially and commercially. I suggest adding one Cultural Point to each Marketplace to reflect the importance of this aspect of Marketplaces. Another point relevant to Marketplaces is that it is the last sales oriented building in the game but they appear quite early. To fill the gap, I suggest another modern "sales" building be added: Department Store or Shopping Mall.

7) To address the discussed problem of too many cultural victories - a) allow modification of the Cultural Limit for Legendary Culture for cities and/or b) add some NEGATIVE culture for certain buildings. For example: -1 Culture for Constabulary (not popular with everyone), -1 Culture for Jails (same reason), -1 Culture for Intelligence Agency and -2 Culture for Security Bureau (both allegedly known for many civil rights violations), -1 Culture for Nuclear Plant (always a lightning rod for protestors). Maybe include a new building - Tax Collection Office - which would not only provide gold but could also be the basis of perhaps -3 Culture (LOL!) Also, what about a one time penalty of say 500 Culture Points for the Player who explodes the first atomic bomb and a 100 Culture Point penalty for each subsequent use of one?

8) Also, I suggest making the Intelligence Agency a Wonder instead of a building able to be constructed in every city - realistically each Country usually does not have a separate Intelligence agency in every city and all local offices are usually controlled by one main HQ in the capital.

9) Factories contribute a significant amount of commerce to societies with jobs, taxes, products, etc. I suggest adding say five Commerce Points for each Factory to represent this contribution to a Country's society (and each Player's efforts to advance his Country). Early buildings such as the Potter and Weaver should not be allowed to provide more Commerce than an a modern Factory.

10) Also, I suggest removing the two pollution icons for Solar and Hydro Plants and reducing the pollution for Gas Plants by half. These are usually considered clean energy (or cleaner for gas) compared to coal plants.

11) Add one Production to each of the Forge and the Kiln. Kilns and Forges contributed much to a society's production of goods, which should be recognized.

12) Add one Food to both Grocers and Granaries. Grocers made significant contributions to the delivery of food to the populace, preventing food loss due to spoilage, which should be recognized. Indeed, Supermarkets provide two Food, so it is quite reasonable that a Grocer should provide just one Food. The same form of argument applies to Granaries which store food for long periods thereby saving more food from spoilage for feeding the people. One Food should be added to Granaries. Not only would this addition be more realistic, it would not be unbalancing (one more Food in the later years has a statistically insignificant effect on growth but in the early years it does slightly reduces the time for Cities to grow and thus reduce the long "dead time" where Players have to tear through the turns where there is little to do but press the End Turn button until Cities gain a few population points - better playablity.

13) Add two Production Points to Recycle Centers. In reality, recycle centers provide more material for additional production (metal, plastic, paper, glass, etc) which should be recognized in the game. More realistic.

14) Add one Happy face for Stadiums. The Stadium does not currently provide allow any real benefit unless an investment in culture is made. As Stadiums did not usually sit empty, a small allowance should be made for positive help when culture is not selected in the allocation of resources.

15) Add a new building to the game: Jeweler, which would, of course, enhance the production of precious metals, gems, amber, and jade. Indeed, the game has De Beers Corporation so a lower level building of Jeweler seems appropriate (should not have just one shot to get a building/wonder that enhances these valuable resources. Also,other CIV4 games have it. In the same vein of logic, add a Textile Mill, with bonuses for cotton, wool, silk, dye, etc. Textiles were a huge industry across the world after the discovery of the Cotton Gin and Cotton Jenny. Also, the game has Bombay Dye (a major textile corporation) so having a lower level of building of a Textile Mill seems appropriate. Further, the Textile Mill would fill the gap between a mere early weaver and a huge corporation such as Bombay Dye.

16) Add a new building to the game: Bureaucracy. There is no building representing run of the mill government functions in the game, which are an essential part of any Country's operations in reality. It could provide a small Espionage bonus and reduce maintenance and add a Commerce Point (as a Bureaucracy tends to facilitate business). Other CIV4 games have it or similar buildings.

17) It seems rather odd that a Bunker would be the source of experience points for Armor units. I suggest adding a new building: Military Base. It would replace the Barracks (and assume the functions of a Barracks) and allow for four experience points for both Armor and Artillery units (which realistically needed much space for proper training). It would be much more realistic rather than using the Bunker and add to the playablity of the game.

18) The game recognizes Projects which were not really specific tangible buildings. I suggest adding two early Projects (which are recognized as Wonders in early versions of CIV4): Marco Polo's Expedition (yielding perhaps a Great Merchant in the City and some economic bonuses) and Darwin's Voyage (yielding two Techs, as in an early version of CIV4). They are more in the nature of a Project rather than a specific building. They would provide an excellent sense of historical development in the game. Another interesting project might be the Sputnik Project after Satellites is discovered. It is a big jump from mere aircraft to the Apollo Project and the Sputnik Project would fill the gap.

19) I would love to see the addition of seven new important Great Wonders: a) the Circus Maximus (allowing promotions to Chariots built in the city and some Happy faces - might need to introduce a new building as a prerequisite: the hippodrome); b) the Diocletion Baths a huge famous bath holding 3000 bathers (providing a small Culture bonus (baths were sources of social interaction in Rome) and significant Healthy bonus and perhaps a Great Doctor); c) the Shaolin Temple (giving significant espionage and cultural advantages); d) the University of Bologna (the first medieval university still active - a prerequisite for (built anywhere in world) for building universities providing research benefits and perhaps a Great Scientist); e) the Medici Bank of Florence (a prerequisite (built anywhere in the world) for building banks providing economic benefits and perhaps a Great Merchant); f) Pasteur Institute (giving significant health benefits and perhaps a Great Doctor); and g) a return of Copernicus' Observatory (a staple in other CIV4 games missing in History Rewritten). All of these proposed Wonders would provide excellent historical flavor to the game. I forgot to mention an early Wonder and a late Wonder: The Tower of Babel, providing two settlers, to reflect the great diaspora when God changed their languages. The Mount Palomar Observatory would be a great followup to Copernicus' Observatory - it had the largest reflecting mirror telescope in the world in the mid 20th Century. Also, the Mount Palomar Observatory could provide a special bonus (say -25% production cost) for the construction of the proposed Sputnick Project and the Apollo Program (both of these programs take a long time to construct and Great Persons cannot be used so there is a a long and unnecessary delay in the race towards completing the Space Ship) making this Great Wonder quite important.

20) A possibility might be requiring the the building of a National Spaceport (Cape Canaveral?) before being able to launch any Spaceship components.

21) I really like the Warehouse and the Story Teller Circle buildings in the Realism Invictus mod. Perhaps consider placing them in History Rewritten (maybe rename the Story Teller Circle the Bard's School)?

22) The game has jet fighters but not jet bombers. Perhaps they should be added to keep air forces more realistic and complete and consistent in abilities?

Thoughts anyone?

I edited a few grammar errors and made a few additions. Thanks for comments/suggestions.

 

[rsab]

I would agree specially over some points:

2) I like the option to plant forests. On late game forests take important relevance, so normally in previous eras I try not to chop too much forest in order to keep some for the late eras. I think plant forests could be an option for workers/labourers but taking a high amount of turns.

7) I agree cultural victories are so common. And a lot of times you get a cultural victory even if you didn't take an specific cultural strategy, only because your cities were more developed. So if some buildings provide your cities with a negative culture, this forces you to take an active cultural strategy (avoiding those buildings) in order to have 3 cities culturally strong.
Changing cultural limit could be also an option.
That makes me remember on version 1.24 there was a level (Emperor I think) were the culture limit for a cultural victory was not balanced an had one 0 more (something like 50.000 instead of 5.000).

14) I agree stadiums are quite irrelevant right now. Adding a happy face should force to change also the byzantine stadium.

 

[Civ4Gandalf13]

Thanks for the response. I agree that planting a forest should not be a quick process. I think it should also be limited to grassland/plains tiles.

As to the cultural problem - I would apply both aspects to obtain an effective solution. Some of the buildings can be quite necessary - such as the constabulary and jails even though they would have negative culture.

Out of curiosity, what is your reaction to the Military Base building - I just cannot see a Bunker providing experience points to an armored unit and the Military Base would provide a realistic solution for experience points for artillery units.

 

[Leoreth]

The ability to plant forests is ultimately just an ability to trade worker time for production, therefore the action should cost at least as much gold as you would pay to hurry production (twice the amount of production from removing the forest) so the civic ability is not made redundant.

 

[Civ4Gandalf13]

Shouldn't the ability to plant a forest be allowed for all and not limited to just players who have a particular civic? I suggest all government types throughout history have engaged in some form of forestry.

 

[dretnoth]

Some stuffs are nice ideas but some are on discussion on 27+.
1. sell buildings - I don't see a long term benefit on pillage owned cities. I can get it that pollution making building are not needed, other religion building are not needed, other corporations are not needed, walls are not needed when the city are going to be lost. But if you get this on i can smell crippling game-play. Cities are unique, by the building they have.
+On the other hand i will shall want that buildings that have been destroyed via conquering shall have 25%-50% discount on rebuilding. Of course if the city build another other that razed buildings, then (if it will remember the number of razed/pillaged buildings then it will decrease by one.) This way one can focus on repairing city and lost push when the effort are abandoned for some reason. (solving time problem if it will be time based effect.)

2. Planting forest - If i remember correctly the AI freak out on this wit his constant rebuilding ties for better effect/grain. (plant forest, cut forest,... repeat 20 times) I get when we say players only but we want for all (AI to) same options. [If i remember correctly]
-Just imagine you have so many worker that you can do it in single turn and you city build a wonder. Try copy that, AI.

3. Sure its nice to have pears, it will go nice whit Bonsais on tundra and Goldfish on lakes. But i have feelings it will needs a re-balance the sheets on corporations.

5. Ship instead scout are good idea, but again, sometime getting a caravel will be a huge benefit. If possible the scout shall load on ship (if empty and capable) or move to capital. Or just provide missionary.

14. Stadium [-25% war wearing +1 for 20%culture] + 1 happy face - that one I was missing. It dint take effect until war or culture are boosted. But i shall go other way. Stadium: [-10% dissent + (-5% dissent for 10%culture)]

17. Bunker (I honestly dint remember if buner give xp to armors or assembly factory or something like that ) but lets think about this way: When you siting in tank you sitting in can. When you are in bunker you are as like as in can. so be in bunker you can get a better training (whit limited senses) to be in can, when you will get the training on train field when you can see the sky and have good look around.

Spoiler reason :

(dit i get this from a old US cartoon? when they training firing from machine gun that was a wood stick and person next to shooter just making ra-ta-ta soud by mouth?)

I read all the suggestion and some really look as reasonable-- but as a experienced player and programmer i must say some building and suggestion can cause a in-ballance. Just look on effect of most buildings. They are mostly minor but stackable whit others effects. Dont forget that Traits and civic can have serious impact, and if we give ecology +1healt from forest we shall see what will drive AI mad.

Duno if its possible to make victory conditions as part of (ordinary) new game properties. (They are part of custom game.)
For cultural victory if possible make it that it shall have at last 35% of land and 20%of population to work. Or at last have a x% of culture in total in other empires.
For religion victory not pull it up if not double second in line.

 

[Civ4Gandalf13]

Thanks for your response. Please let me reply. FYI, I am am a CIV4 player of decades (since the first Civ). I have a degree in computers but it is 40 years old (LOL!) and I have not programmed since that time.

1) As to your criticism about religious buildings and corporations, your point is well made. The player should not be allowed to sell those two types of buildings. All others should be fair game for sale.

2) I never had a problem with planting forests on previous CIV games. I do not think it would be a problem in History Rewritten but it would have to be tested to be certain.

3) I think your comment is hyperbole...? Bonsais do not grow in the tundra - yet pearls/oysters do actually appear in the oceans in the real world (and previous CIV games/mods).

5) You do not always get a scout from the Tribal Villages on atolls. Sometimes you get warriors or even settlers and then they appear long distances away if there is no close land mass.

14) I am not certain I understand your comment - are you acknowledging that stadiums need to be addressed but you are proposing a different solution?

17) The current History Rewritten Bunker building does provide four experience points for armor units and no specialty building for artillery experience points. I must strongly disagree with your comment that you can get sufficient training in a bunker for armored/artillery warfare. I am a disabled vet and drove tanks. Tanks need large areas to practice tactics of movement and firing ranges and artillery units need long ranges to practice obersvation, control, and firing techniques.

As to your final point about possible imbalance, I would disagree that it would be a problem. All changes would apply equally to the players and the AI.

 

[Leoreth]

Shouldn't the ability to plant a forest be allowed for all and not limited to just players who have a particular civic? I suggest all government types throughout history have engaged in some form of forestry.

I am not proposing that the ability to plant forests should be limited to a civic. I am merely saying that there already is a civic enabled action that allows you to hurry units and buildings with gold, effectively converting gold into production. Therefore planting forests should cost at least as much gold for its production as you would pay for hurrying, otherwise the civic ability would become a lot less valuable.

 

[Civ4Gandalf13]

I see. Does that ability apply to hurrying worker tasks?

 

[Leoreth]

No, the hurry production ability that allows you to finish unit/building production by spending gold.

 

[Civ4Gandalf13]

Thanks. I thought I might have missed something.

 

[dretnoth]

2. Wait, dint constant planting a forest a cutting it down will produce extra hammers? So whit 50 workers i can sky-rocket the production in city. But AI just go a teraform the land to his current needs, and can get stuck in cycle. (try get forest and improvment, but then want the same improvement without it) [Or i missing something there?]

5. If appearing on distant land is relay like a fist to eye (monocle) then we can think about something like colonization have. (If possible) A extra cargo slot that cannot be normally loaded. So the units get aboard the ship even if it dint have normal cargo capacity or are full.

14. It just the feeling that sport events dint make you necessary happy, but rather let you release some steam. So invest in culture for sport event make peasant busy and redirect they thugs form bad things.

17. I was hopping somebody will answer that. But i got to far whit that half joke. My bad.

(Off topic)
Always sound good to know that there is another person hooked to civ from beginning. How many battleships you lost to barbarian diplomat on Mountain?
I get that some people are reserved calling coniferous mini trees as bonsai (leaf mini trees). Point taken. There was discussion that in future rivers in tundra/snow can work in same way as rivers in dessert. So resource typical for that area.

 

[Civ4Gandalf13]

Thanks for the response. Let me reply.

2. Interesting point about using fifty workers to unrealistically sky rocket production in a city by making all tiles a forest. But, that would cause a corresponding plunge in population which would be self defeating. Would an AI do that (your question)? I doubt it as the population would drop precipitously. My observation of AI behavior is that it would be act in such a self defeating behavior (although I have seen it done with workshops over farming causing population drop. Perhaps a prohibition on AIs making improvements that cause a population drop is warranted. Good point on your part.

5. A possible solution.

14. I understand your point, but many people are made happy by sporting events across the world (look at the World Cup). Also, the sporting events result in happiness regardless of any investment.

I like your last point on spearmen sinking battleships. I saw that occurrence way too frequently. What the rules did not say was that those barbarians had armor-piercing spears! LOL!

I like your point about rivers in Tundra working the same as rivers in Desert. I think I will add that to my list of suggestions.

 

[Leoreth]

Why do you think mass planting forests would cause population to plunge?

 

[Civ4Gandalf13]

Because the tiles that would contain the new Forests would be Plains/Grasslands tiles that previously were farmed - there would be a significant loss of food production.

 

[Leoreth]

That's assuming that those tiles were improved in the first place, for most of the game cities do not get large enough to work all 20 surrounding tiles.

 

[Civ4Gandalf13]

True, but that does not invalidate my point - if a city has not developed surrounding tiles with food production, then it would never have grown in the first place and it would be nonsensical to develop such tiles with Forests - as Forests do not provide a sufficient increase in food to allow the City to grow.

 

[Xyth]

Please allow me to make a few suggestions for the 1.25 version to provide some more options and realism for the players.Many if not most of these are easy changes which should not be difficult to incorporate if accepted.

I'm not making any new changes to 1.25 now. It's already been delayed far too long and even 'easy changes' can require a lot of testing and have balance implications. Also, any change that requires teaching the AI how to do something new is a significant amount of work.

Suggestions are still welcome though, for the next version.

1) Allow players to sell buildings in their cities, say for half the cost and a quarter cost for obsolete buildings. Governments sell unused/old buildings all the time in the real world. Allows a player options to reduce pollution, obtain quick cash, and get something for obsolete buildings. Adds some realism. I think an older edition of CIV4 allowed this to happen.

Governments sell buildings, yes, but they don't disappear from the city when they do. A forge is still gonna cause pollution whoever owns it. There is already a decommissioning mechanic for outdated power stations and buildings don't go obsolete in HR for the most part so I don't feel a mechanic like this is necessary or particularly realistic. Plus when you think about it, buildings aren't just buildings – they represent the presence of particular industries.

Teaching the AI how and when to sell buildings would not be a trivial task either.

2) Give workers/laborers a new ability: Plant a forest. This has been done since early times (and is allowed in the game after a forest fire) but the game does not allow a player to do so intentionally. Allow the ability after Horticulture.

Possibly. Teaching the AI to use such a mechanic is the major challenge, as others have mentioned.

3) Add a new ocean resource - Oysters with Pearls. It is an important real world industry. It is present in other CIV4 and should not be left out of this one.

HR is pretty much at the limit of the number of non-strategic resources it can handle atm, balance-wise. Otherwise Pearls would be a sensible addition. Though I suppose they could kinda be represented by the existing Shellfish resource if we added some commerce to it.

EDIT: Given shells were used as currency in quite a few societies, I think it would be good to add commerce to Shellfish anyway.

4) Allow players to build a Fish Farm with a work boat - fish farming was done on the coasts since the time of the Romans. Represent it by a Fish symbol with an identifying part - such as a small red buoy. It must be built on a coast with at least two tile sides being coast.

I'd have to think through the balance implications, but makes sense from a historical point of view.

5) Change the Barbarian Island Villages to provide a Ship instead of a land unit (which unrealistically appears on land masses often very far away) or allow the land units to stay on the atoll/island until they are picked up by a friendly ship.

Yeah that code is quite old and needs to be reworked. On my todo list, just haven't got to it yet.

6) Marketplaces were the center of life in urban environment until modern times, both socially and commercially. I suggest adding one Cultural Point to each Marketplace to reflect the importance of this aspect of Marketplaces. Another point relevant to Marketplaces is that it is the last sales oriented building in the game but they appear quite early. To fill the gap, I suggest another modern "sales" building be added: Department Store or Shopping Mall.

9) Factories contribute a significant amount of commerce to societies with jobs, taxes, products, etc. I suggest adding say five Commerce Points for each Factory to represent this contribution to a Country's society (and each Player's efforts to advance his Country). Early buildings such as the Potter and Weaver should not be allowed to provide more Commerce than an a modern Factory.

11) Add one Production to each of the Forge and the Kiln. Kilns and Forges contributed much to a society's production of goods, which should be recognized.

12) Add one Food to Grocers. Grocers made significant contributions to the delivery of food to the populace, preventing food loss due to spoilage, which should be recognized. Indeed, Supermarkets provide two Food, so it is quite reasonable that a Grocer should provide just one Food.

14) Add one Happy face for Stadiums. The Stadium does not currently provide allow any real benefit unless an investment in culture is made. As Stadiums did not usually sit empty, a small allowance should be made for positive help when culture is not selected in the allocation of resources.

While this all makes sense in terms of realism it has to make sense in terms of balance as well. I don't design buildings individually, I look at all the bonuses and effects needed and distribute them across all buildings, striving for the best mix of game balance and realism I can get. Marketplaces probably should have culture, but to add it I'd need to remove it from somewhere else. Or, if I want to distribute more culture in general to buildings, then I also need to account for that in other systems affected by culture. A single food added to the Grocer might not seem like much, but cumulatively each turn in every city – that's a lot of growth at a point in the game where it isn't needed.

I would like to add a Department Store building though. Just gotta figure out to make it work in the grand scheme first.

15) Add a new building to the game: Jeweler, which would, of course, enhance the production of precious metals, gems, amber, and jade. Indeed, the game has De Beers Corporation so a lower level building of Jeweler seems appropriate (should not have just one shot to get a building/wonder that enhances these valuable resources. Also,other CIV4 games have it..

I considered having a Jeweler but couldn't make it work in terms of balance. I opted to associate those resources with the Mint and Museum instead.

In the same vein of logic, add a Textile Mill, with bonuses for cotton, wool, silk, dye, etc. The game has Bombay Dye (a major textile corporation) so having a lower level of building of a Textile Mill seems appropriate. Also, the Textile Mill would fill the gap between a mere early weaver and a huge corporation such as Bombay Dye.

The Weaver already has bonuses for Dye/Cotton/Flax/Silk, a second such building would be imbalanced. I originally intended the Weaver to be a Textile Mill, but it turned out that I needed it in the Classical Era instead so it became a Weaver.

7) To address the discussed problem of too many cultural victories - a) allow modification of the Cultural Limit for Legendary Culture for cities and/or b) add some NEGATIVE culture for certain buildings. For example: -1 Culture for Constabulary (not popular with everyone), -1 Culture for Jails (same reason), -1 Culture for Intelligence Agency and -2 Culture for Security Bureau (both allegedly known for many civil rights violations), -1 Culture for Nuclear Plant (always a lightning rod for protestors). Maybe include a new building - Tax Collection Office - which would not only provide gold but could also be the basis of perhaps -3 Culture (LOL!) Also, what about a one time penalty of say 500 Culture Points for the Player who explodes the first atomic bomb and a 100 Culture Point penalty for each subsequent use of one?

I've increased the culture required to reach Refined and higher levels in 1.25, which will help with Cultural victories being too easy. Negative culture is a pretty cool idea, but I doubt the engine would cope with it.

8) Also, I suggest making the Intelligence Agency a Wonder instead of a building able to be constructed in every city - realistically each Country usually does not have a separate Intelligence agency in every city and all local offices are usually controlled by one main HQ in the capital

Intelligence Agencies can't be built like normal buildings, only by Great Spies. And are thus very unlikely to be in every city.

10) Also, I suggest removing the two pollution icons for Solar and Hydro Plants and reducing the pollution for Gas Plants by half. These are usually considered clean energy (or cleaner for gas) compared to coal plants.

That's how it is already. Coal Plants generate 4 pollution, Gas Plants generate 2, Nuclear/Hydro/Solar generate none.

17) It seems rather odd that a Bunker would be the source of experience points for Armor units. I suggest adding a new building: Military Base. It would replace the Barracks (and assume the functions of a Barracks) and allow for four experience points for both Armor and Artillery units (which realistically needed much space for proper training). It would be much more realistic rather than using the Bunker.

The Barracks are fine as is, I'd be more inclined to just rename the Bunker and give it different art.

18) The game recognizes Projects which were not really specific tangible buildings. I suggest adding two early Projects (which are recognized as Wonders in early versions of CIV4): Marco Polo's Expedition (yielding perhaps a Great Merchant in the City and some economic bonuses) and Darwin's Voyage (yielding two Techs, as in an early version of CIV4). They are more in the nature of a Project rather than a specific building. They would provide an excellent sense of historical development in the game. Another interesting project might be the Sputnik Project after Satellites is discovered. It is a big jump from mere aircraft to the Apollo Project and the Sputnik Project would fill the gap.

I've done very little with projects so far because there's significantly fewer options to customize them than there are compared to wonders. I haven't really looked into what is and isn't possible with them yet, but I'd definitely like to expand them in the future, in a similar manner to what you've suggested.

19) I would love to see the addition of six new Great Wonders:a) the Circus Maximus (allowing promotions to Chariots built in the city and some Happy faces - might need to introduce a new building as a prerequisite: the hippodrome); the Shaolin Temple (giving significant espionage and cultural advantages); the University of Bologna (the first medieval university still active - a prerequisite for (built anywhere in world) for building universities providing research benefits and a perhaps a Great Scientist); the Medici Bank of Florence (a prerequisite (built anywhere in the world) for building banks providing economic benefits and perhaps a Great Merchant); Pasteur Institute (giving significant health benefits and perhaps a Great Doctor); and a return of Copernicus' Observatory (a staple in other CIV4 games missing in History Rewritten). All of these proposed Wonders would provide excellent historical flavor to the game. I forgot to mention an early Wonder and a late Wonder: The Tower of Babel, providing two settlers, to reflect the great diaspora when God changed their languages. The Mount Palomar Observatory would be a great followup to Copernicus' Observatory - it had the largest reflecting mirror telescope in the world in the mid 20th Century.

HR is overdue for some new wonders, but I'd want to focus on Renaissance and Industrial additions primarily as these are the eras that currently have the least. Some good ideas there. Circus Maximus is already the Roman Unique Wonder.

22) The game has jet fighters but not jet bombers. Perhaps they should be added to keep air forces consistent in abilities?

I'm not opposed to adding a Jet Bomber (and a Stealth Fighter?), just depends whether there's enough 'space' for them in terms of combat stats/abilities and tech progression (there's only 6 techs between Aerodynamics and Supermaterials). I have no intention of extending or rearranging the tech tree at this time.

 

[Civ4Gandalf13]

Thanks for the response. As a general matter, I understand your reluctance to make any new changes to 1.25 at this time to get it out. Definitely makes sense.

1) A good point about sold buildings being still present in the City after being sold regarding pollution. Perhaps a change to the suggestion allowing for destruction of the building to avoid the pollution costs (of course, the Player would not get any funds for this option). As to the sale of the building, as previous Civ games allowed it, perhaps adopting a paradigm that once sold, the building no longer falls under the control of the player and has no effect on the City (indeed, it is obvious that the current available buildings for a City do not constitute every possible building).

2) Would supplementing the AI be that difficult for planting a forest? Do not AIs already engage in various improvements such as farming, building lumber mills, etc. which are quite similar?

3) Interesting idea about adding commerce to the shell fish. Is there any limit to the number of resources that the game can handle? I assume that HR uses the same basic structure of Civ4 BTS. Other Civ games had the Pearls/Oysters resource. How would adding the Pearls/Oysters affect balance? The AIs would have the same access to them as the Players.
I liked your observation about early societies using shells as currency. Rather coincidentally, I have a list of possible new events I have been creating over the years. One of them was that some fisherman had discovered a beautiful new form of Conch Shel land had developed a market for them, adding +1 gold to the tile.

4) There is a related possibility for Fish Farms. The French, starting in the 1700s, started using Oyster/Pearl Farms. Also, they have been used in the Orient. The same mechanics could be used for both.

6) 9) 11) 12) 14) I am not certain I understand the balancing standard you are referring to to. The AI buildings would receive all of the same additions/modifications/bonuses. So the factors should balance.
THIS IS QUITE IMPORTANT! I should note that over the last several years I have extensively tested these suggestions by using the World Builder (I used to be a Beta tester for certain computer war games). In each game, I would manually insert these additions/modifications/bonuses into EVERY Player and AI city as it was founded ((I would use a "template" city and merely raze the founded city and duplicate it with the "template" city so as to make the process much quicker). I played approximately 40 games like this. I found no issues or problems with play balance with the suggested additions/modifications/bonuses. In fact, I found that the results were quite pleasing from an historical and play perspective.

7) As to your comment that you doubted the AI could handle the "negative" culture, please refer to my several year long testing of my proposed additions/modifications/bonuses. The testing included placing the negative culture into the AI Cities. It worked fine with no issues or problems. Indeed, I suggested that these particular suggestions would not need any tweaks to the AI and would only need to be inserted into each building's specifications.

8) Thank you for acknowledging my observation that Intelligence Agencies should not be in every City. But that is the essence of my suggestion. Each Country usually has one major Intelligence Agency (CIA, MI6, Deuxieme Bureau, etc) The game (1.24) potentially allows them to be built in every (but in more than one in any case) City (if a Player have enough Great Spies) giving a Player an out of balance access to Espionage Points which should be changed (why I suggested that the Intelligence Agency should be made a Great Wonder. Unless, that change has already been made in 1.25, which I would not know about...?

10) Yes, I understand that the Solar and Hydro Plants have reduced pollution effects compared to the Coal Plants. The essence of my point is that they should have none. Neither have foul air or water or radiation emissions that characterize the pollution of Coal or Nuclear Plants. edit: The current game (1.24) has two pollution points for Solar/Hydro - has it been changed for 1.25?

17) I understand your point about Barracks. As you indicate, change the name of the Bunker to a Military Base, keep the four experience points for Armor units but also allow four experience points for Artillery units (which do not have a building providing the, to Artillery units currently in the game).

18) As a followup to my suggestion about Projects, one idea I have been toying with is having the Trojan Horse as a Project. It would allow a Player to automatically breach one City that has Walls.

19) As to Great Wonders, over the years I have developed a number of them which I did not include in my original suggestion list to you. They include the Great Cothon of Carthage, Dujiangyan Irrigation, Chinese Civil Service, German General Staff, Florence Nightingale's Hospital, Neuschwanstein Castle, Lavoisiers Lab, Madame Curie's Lab, Empire Sate Building, Venetian Naval Academy, Prussian War Academy, Andrew Carnegie Foundation, World Bank, World Trade Center, Hubble Telescope, Mir Space Station, Petronas Towers, GPS.
I would observe that in reality, there appear to be more Great Wonders in Classical, Medieval, Renaissance times for several reasons. First, it requires much time to pass for a work or building to achieve Great Wonder status, Second, in those earlier times, being the first discovery where are few or no related achievements tends to enhance these achievements status (the Sears Tower in Chicago is rarely mentioned when compared to the Empire State Building even though the Sears Tower is bigger). Third, the effect of the achievement at the earlier times it is greater because of its uniqueness (again see the Empire State Building and the Sears Tower example). So it might be difficult to find industrial/modern achievements that are truly Great Wonders.
I understand that the Coliseum is already listed as a Roman Unique Wonder. However, I would suggest that the Coliseum is so universally known and acknowledged, it should be elevated to Great Wonder status. I would propose the same argument for the Grand Bazaar at Istanbul and the Sphinx and the Louvre. In an edit to my original list, I added a few items, which are not on your lsit including the Diocletion Baths in Rome which reputedly could handle 3000 bathers.

22) I agree with your observation about also adding Stealth aircraft in addition to Jet Bombers.

Good interchange. Let's expand on it!

 

[Civ4Gandalf13]

To Xyth: I made an error on the Solar/Hydro Plant comment - the current 1.24 version has them at two pollution points - I assume that you meant that 1.25 has them at zero. Apologies.