Tactics and Strategy Turns 100-120

OK lets get pro-active then, and start fleshing this idea out:

We obviously can not send an official communique broaching this topic... that would be suicide... Although if Cavalieros and SANCTA were secretly conspiring against us, I guess it would not matter.

Mad Scientists
MSM or PM their turnplayers asking them for some chat about dealing with SANCTA

Saturn
Send a semi-official PM asking to re-open treaty negotiations... Or we could respond to their last treaty proposal, which we never responded to.

Dear Saturn,

Continuing to aid the two most powerful teams will only hasten our collective doom. It is in both of our best interest to discuss ways to establish some global balance-of-power.
Click to expand...
 
Hey guys, wouldn't a Kaz/MS/Saturn alliance guarantee Team Cav and SANCTA join up? I can't see that three way alliance prevailing if we'd be the strongest of the three. I also think that if Team Cav and SANCTA have teamed up already they would surely have included either MS or Saturn as a third.
 
We could also try to get Saturn to join up Kaz MS and Cavalieros against SANCTA, or get MS to join up with Kaz and S&S against Cavalieros.

Either way, if things keep going the way they are going now, Cavalieros will soon have to decide between killing off MS or killing off us... And SANCTA will have to decide whether to kill off Saturn or kill us off.

It seems likely that Cavalieros and SANCTA might decide to split up Kaz land between them, since we are the only legitimate threat to either of them. Rather than let Kaz play "kingmaker", they are better off just killing us, dividing our lands between them, and then squaring off, each with one inferior vassal, feeding them cash for research.
 
Sommerswerd said:
We could also try to get Saturn to join up Kaz MS and Cavalieros against SANCTA, or get MS to join up with Kaz and S&S against Cavalieros.

Either way, if things keep going the way they are going now, Cavalieros will soon have to decide between killing off MS or killing off us... And SANCTA will have to decide whether to kill off Saturn or kill us off.

It seems likely that Cavalieros and SANCTA might decide to split up Kaz land between them, since we are the only legitimate threat to either of them. Rather than let Kaz play "kingmaker", they are better off just killing us, dividing our lands between them, and then squaring off, each with one inferior vassal, feeding them cash for research.
Click to expand...


My thoughts as well. Though Cav will have a very hard time attacking us so the only team that can really take our land is Sancta. And Cav won't want sancta to get any stronger. So that gives us a bit of leverage with Team Cav. But not much.
 
I dought Cav or Sancta will sweat over us for now. They have more free land to settle (especially Sancta) and some economic recovery to do.

What I think is happening with Cav is that we did pis them off demanding their cities, and now they are thinking whether they should help us with Sancta or not...so for now are not replying. I think they will ses that they have no chance of taking on Sancta without us and will come back...
 
I don't think Cav are just quitting on us. What do they have to gain by doing that? SANCTA is their main rival and always have been.

Smokey's football analogy is good. SANCTA have done this several times and know what they are doing. If I ever sign up to an MTDG again I will insist on it being played with the No Score mod! That will be a big advantage taken away for teams like SANCTA.

By UNI's do you mean Universities? This is about the time that many universities start and I know a of team Cav are students or post-grads.

Cav were pissed off about our previous message but they know this is not something that was supported by most of our team.

Saturn are a lot more organised than MS are and SANCTA+Saturn will easily beat MS+Cav. Cav maybe big but they were as slack on planning for Lib as we were. I think it was only Oyzar doing some loose sums with me on msn. So they don't have the manpower/time to compete with SANCTA 1v1 either.

Cav can't do without us if they want any chance of winning the game. They probably just aren't sure what they want to do next. I think we just carry on as we are for now, build Economy until OU then switch to a war footing.
 
We appear to be building a university in Osk? I know we discussed building universities in several cities, but I thought Osk was going to continue its focus on unit production. Have we even built a single pikeman yet?

It also appears that Taraz is building a LB. If any city is to be building city improvements now and units later this city would be a good candidate. As our frontline city, a library and university here would give needed cultural pushback on Zero. A monastery and/or temple are also options. Even a courthouse could be useful to intercept spies and reduce the cities relatively high maintenance.

Thoughts on Aktau. I have been pretty vocal about keeping this city as a GP farm. But I am beginning to have some doubts. We have no plans to run great people any time in the near or midterm in Aktau and with the GL in Haz, Aktau will need to run several specialists in order to really take over as our main GP focused city.

Since it looks like we are going to be boxed in for a while, we should also consider Aktau's potential to become a 3rd cottage city. We talk about using the city to whip a bunch of knights, but how effective will the city really be for that task? And as the city regrows population between whips - do we want to work farms, cottages, or run specialists? It would be really useful to have an estimate of under each of these three scenarios we could produce a knight once every X number of turns.

If we do decide to forgo Aktua as a future GP farm - we should really consider building the National Epic in Haz.

I also would advocate for running an engineer in Haz rather than working a mine. This does reduce production. But speeding specialists is quite useful and if we get lucky and pop a GE we could rush some very useful wonders.

Another question. What happened with the missionary from founding Taoism? It does not look like we spread the faith to Haz. Which would be useful for future monastery construction.
 
Osk isthe only city tht could build teh 6th needed Uni, th others are underdeveloped.

Taraz yes longbow, it will make only units...what is the point of culture imprvements when we will rase zero. (BTW courthouse does not help catch spies)

Actau I said from teh beggining to cottage, but we have illusive ideas about GP farm.

Haraz can run eng, it acceletrates great person by 2 tuns, but loses some production.

Missioanry apparently was used in actau...
 
Indiansmoke said:
Osk isthe only city tht could build teh 6th needed Uni, th others are underdeveloped.

Taraz yes longbow, it will make only units...what is the point of culture imprvements when we will rase zero. (BTW courthouse does not help catch spies)

Actau I said from teh beggining to cottage, but we have illusive ideas about GP farm.

Haraz can run eng, it acceletrates great person by 2 tuns, but loses some production.

Missioanry apparently was used in actau...
Click to expand...

I do not think we will be razing Taraz any time soon and it will be much easier to do if we can push back on Zero's culture first. I am also very concerned that Sancta can run artistst and push back on our culture. Being able to road and then attack in the same turn would be a huge strategic advantage for either side. Slaving a lib and uni in Taraz would take a bit longer than building them in Osk - but it serves a very important secondary purpose. Also, long term Taraz will have a good number of cottages - so we will eventually want a lib and uni there anyway.

Thanks for the clarification on courthouses and Spys. I swear I read that somewhere.

What do others think of running the engineer in Haz? We get our next GP 2 turns faster, and have a chance of getting a GE. And if we keep running the engineer the following GP will be 5 turns faster.

Also what do others think about cottages in Actua and giving up on the GP farm there. It would be a great site for it. But unless we start running specialists, it is not doing much good. And if we do switch - do we build the NE in Haz?
 
I am ok with working on a knight in Haz, but I don't know if we had any alternate views on this. I'd also advocate that we start running an engineer in Haz.

Do we know what Cav is teching? If they are also doing gunpowder then it would not make sense for us to work on it as well.
 
I logged on to get the cash... after sommers had pressed end turn :( I also gifted optics to him as requested. We should run at 0% right now until we figure out with CAV what they are researching.

I switched the knight in the Haz to a barracks. What's the point of making a knight without at least a barracks? Since we can't match our rivals on quantity our units are going to need every promo they can get. We should make mounted units where we have a barracks and stable.

Also, I'm not so sure about guarding our fish with a trireme. Sancta can attack and kill it and then hide in an ocean tile like last time.
 
I agree don't guard the fish.

Building a knight with no barracks is unwise. A harbor in Haz might also be a good idea. Either that or a barracks probably makes the most sense. Or we could start a Caravel.
 
I switched to barracks cause its cheap (2 turns) and imo a prereq for building any units at Haz.

Aktau is ready to do a 2 pop whip for the University (it will grow to unhappiness in a few turns). This means that the last University will come online in Shym in 5 turns. So we start Oxford in 5 turns... perhaps a harbor would the best choice now instead of the barracks.

I still think we should build the National Epic in Aktau. Their isn't enough mines there to spend the excess food on like there is in Haz. So the excess food should naturally go into specialists (their potential food to run up to 6 before bio). Conversely, we would be neglecting Haz's mines (and the bureau bonus) if we started focusing on GP production their.
 
You are right Cav - Actua is our best place for a GP farm. But Haz has become our defacto GP farm and we won't be running many specialists in Actau for a long time. My question is whether it is better to have Haz as a marginal GP city sooner - or to wait and have a great GP farm later.

So we can start oxford in 5 turns - that is great! Can we get a harbor and a barracks in those 5 turns? It is 50 + 80 hammers. I think that is doable.
 
We are going to run out of happiness in Aktau really soon so whipping the University should probably be our last whip there for a while. When we hit the happy cap there we should start working specialists. With another temple and the National Epic we can run 3 priests for 38 gpp/turn (with nearly 100% for a Great Prophet).

If we build the National Epic in Haz then it will be our only city to ever spawn GPs. There is so much GP pollution in Haz that the only GP type we could possibly target would be Great Scientists. When we get Oxford we are going to want to choose scientists for any specialists anyways for the bonus.
 
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