Tech tree statistics and ingame tech tree.

[Blazenclaw]

One thing I noticed when going through the prehistoric era tech names; there's both "Simple Wood Working" and "Woodworking" techs, the former for enabling wood spearmen, some buildings, etc, and the latter for lumber camp, log bridge, etc. Amusingly, they also both have the exact same background wikipedia text; they really probably ought to be more distinct, in at least name if nothing else.

 

[Faustmouse]

How about branch gathering and wood chopping (who your looking at what exactly they unlock)

 

[Sir Monster The Great]

Woodworking for Simple Wood Working and Logging for Woodworking could work.

 

[raxo2222]

Updated tech tree pics to SVN 11094

 

[pepper2000]

I know this is old news, but I only recently saw the revamped Information Era portion of the tech tree, and I just want to say that I think it is a big improvement to what we had before. Kudos to whoever did that.

 

[raxo2222]

I know this is old news, but I only recently saw the revamped Information Era portion of the tech tree, and I just want to say that I think it is a big improvement to what we had before. Kudos to whoever did that.

@KaTiON_PT improved it, and I fixed requirement/recosting bugs that happened in the process.

 

[KaTiON_PT]

@pepper2000 thank you for the vouch.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I see that the ideas about when pottery was invented has been thrown out the window by recent archaeology finds. In eastern Asia hunter gatherers invented it 20,000 years ago. 10-12,000 years before the farmers of the Middle East! Which is what C2C bases its tech tree placement on. They used it for making stews.

ref: Wu, Xiaohong, et al. “Early Pottery at 20,000 Years Ago in Xianrendong Cave, China.” Science, vol. 336, no. 6089, 2012, pp. 1696–1700., doi:10.1126/science.1218643.

Granaries (Kuijt, I., and B. Finlayson. “Evidence for Food Storage and Predomestication Granaries 11,000 Years Ago in the Jordan Valley.” Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, vol. 106, no. 27, 2009, pp. 10966–10970., doi:10.1073/pnas.0812764106.) and beer (here) may also be earlier too.

With Granaries we would only need to add an intermediate form between Storage Pit and Granary

 

[Toffer90]

I see that the ideas about when pottery was invented has been thrown out the window by recent archaeology finds. In eastern Asia hunter gatherers invented it 20,000 years ago. 10-12,000 years before the farmers of the Middle East! Which is what C2C bases its tech tree placement on. They used it for making stews.

ref: Wu, Xiaohong, et al. “Early Pottery at 20,000 Years Ago in Xianrendong Cave, China.” Science, vol. 336, no. 6089, 2012, pp. 1696–1700., doi:10.1126/science.1218643.

Granaries (Kuijt, I., and B. Finlayson. “Evidence for Food Storage and Predomestication Granaries 11,000 Years Ago in the Jordan Valley.” Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, vol. 106, no. 27, 2009, pp. 10966–10970., doi:10.1073/pnas.0812764106.) and beer (here) may also be earlier too.

With Granaries we would only need to add an intermediate form between Storage Pit and Granary

Pottery encompass many different things though, the pottery tech in C2C only encompass kiln treated ceramics (Heated at 1200-1400 celsius).
In archaeology pottery only means any type of clay vessel, while figurines made of clay are called terracotta.

In MToS I have an Earthenware tech close to the cooking tech, long before tribalism.
Core C2C has Lacquerware quite early in the prehistoric (Adhesives tech I think), which is basically just glazed earthenware.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Pottery encompass many different things though, the pottery tech in C2C only encompass kiln treated ceramics (Heated at 1200-1400 celsius).
In archaeology pottery only means any type of clay vessel, while figurines made of clay are called terracotta.

In MToS I have an Earthenware tech close to the cooking tech, long before tribalism.
Core C2C has Lacquerware quite early in the prehistoric (Adhesives tech I think), which is basically just glazed earthenware.

Well those nomads were making kiln based pottery as far as I can make out. The pottery mentioned in the article is cooking wares not ceramic statuary which is somewhat easier and earlier. It is also decorated with varying regional styles something that does not come until the pop-culture Beaker Culture (sort of the equivalent of the Blue Jeans Pop Culture of the 1960-80's; ie everyone wanted it no mater what their Culture was )

Lacquerware is usually made from wood or bamboo although it can be pottery and baskets. However it is made by the same set of peoples who developed the pottery, but 7,000 years ago ie 13,000 years after they made pottery. Lacquerware is not glaze as there is no heating involved.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Turns out you can fire pottery without a kiln - see here for an experimental archaeologist recreating neolithic "English" pottery.

BTW this is what lead me to the previous stuff.

Which begs the question what does the C2C Pottery tech actually represent? Kilns? Pottery Wheel?

 

[Sir Monster The Great]

alt-tech renames updated. might just be modmod status unless asked otherwise:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hQeWf8sAG5_lbmsMNreaa9SlSVhhXwo-MuKW6yeb1ss/edit?usp=sharing

Spoiler :

Prehistoric:

• Conduct → Codes of Conduct (better name)

Classical:

• Ancient Ballistics → Ballistics‌ ‌(no need for Ancient)
  
  
• Ancient Machinery → Siege Engines (more descriptive)
  
  
• Horse Breeding → Equestrianism (more descriptive)

Medieval:

• Armoured Cavalry → Barding (less wordy)
  
  
• Armour Crafting → Plated Mail (more descriptive)

Atomic:

• Modern Seismology → Seismology (less wordy)
  
  
• Advanced Metallurgy → Titanium (less wordy, more descriptive)
  
  
• Communism → Marxist-Leninism (generally what people actually think of when they hear the word Communism)

Information:

• Asteroid Belt Probes → Asteroid Belt Exploration (more descriptive)
  
  
• Bacterium Engineering → Synthetic Microbiology (more descriptive)
  
  
• Genomic Encyclopedia → Genome Mapping (more accurate)
  
  
• Gene Manipulation → Genetic Engineering (more descriptive)
  
  
• Genesis Biology → Synthetic Genomics (more descriptive, fewer undertones)
  
  
• Imaginary Physics → Transphysics (more descriptive)
  
  
• Genetic Biochemistry → Bio-Neurogenetics (more descriptive)

Nanotech:

• Advanced Computers → Trinary Computing (more descriptive)
  
  
• Advanced Environmental Systems → Space Habitats (less wordy)
  
  
• Amplified Wavelengths → Optical Amplifiers (more descriptive)
  
  
• Automated Robotics → Societal Automation (more descriptive)
  
  
• Thought Scanners → Neuro-Predictive Modeling (more descriptive and fits with future reqs)
  
  
• DNA Computing → Wetware Computing (more descriptive)
  
  
• Dystopia Pathogens → Designer Diseases (more descriptive)
  
  
• Hypothetical Biochemistry → Hyperbiochemical Engineering (more descriptive)
  
  
• Media Hivemind → Geaslt Culture (more descriptive)
  
  
• Ontology Engineering → Ontological Engineering (more descriptive)
  
  
• Prototyped Pathogens → Synthetic Pathogens (more descriptive)
  
  
• Supersonic Rails → Vactrains (less wordy)
  
  
• Smart Drugs → Nanite Pharmaceuticals (more descriptive)
  
  
• Warmachines → Battle Mechs (old name redundant)
  
  
• Forst Beams → Frost Weapons (more general)
  
  
• Synthetic Senetince → Perception Engineering (more descriptive)

Transhuman:

• Advanced Shielding → Ultrashielding (less wordy)
  
  
• Artificial Photosynthesis → Plantoids (more descriptive)
  
  
• Apocalyptic Pathogens → Nanite-Anima Pathogens (more descriptive)
  
  
• Artificial Nucleosynthesis → Nucleosynthetic Production (more descriptive)
  
  
• Binary Psychokinesis → Cybernetic Psychokinesis (overuse of Binary, more descriptive)
  
  
• Binary Semiotics → Cybernetic Semiotics (overuse of Binary, more descriptive)
  
  
• Binary Subconsciousness → Artificial Subconsciousness (overuse of Binary, more descriptive)
  
  
• Binary Legelastion → Cybernetic Jurisprudence (overuse of Binary, more descriptive)
  
  
• Extraterrestrial Agriculture → Astroagriculture (less wordy)
  
  
• Neuron Engineering → Neuroengineering (less wordy)
  
  
• Whole Brain Emulation → Synthetic Neruosynthesis (old name redundant according to wiki and civpedia)

Galactic:

• Advanced Seedships → Seedship Megagengineering (more descriptive)
  
  
• Fusion Spacecraft → Fusion Propulsion (more descriptive)
  
  
• Transtangible Neutrino Accelerators → Neutrino Accelerators (less wordy)
  
  
• Launch Arcology → Arcological Seedships (more descriptive)

Transcendent:

• Dualflux Quantum Temporal Rift → Quantum Rift Travel (more descriptive)
  
  
• Metaverse → Metaverse Traversal (more descriptive)
  
  
• Deities → Deification (more descriptive)
  
  
• Atemporal Beings → Temporal Transendnace (more descriptive and inline with pre-req)
  
  
• Simulation Awareness → Meta-Awareness (less wordy)
  
  
• Brane Construction → Brane Engineering (more descriptive)

 

[Bruhmoment]

While on the topic about the tech tree, why doesn't it show anything for me? I can look at the pedia for techs, but when I open up the tech tree, it shows nothing except the background. Maybe it has to load?
When I did try to launch C2C, I got a traceback error, but the game launches

 

[raxo2222]

While on the topic about the tech tree, why doesn't it show anything for me? I can look at the pedia for techs, but when I open up the tech tree, it shows nothing except the background. Maybe it has to load?
When I did try to launch C2C, I got a traceback error, but the game launches

1. Never install new version of mod on top of old version - delete mod completely and install it
2. Mod can't be in My Documents, and MUST be named Caveman2Cosmos
3. Run game as admin, if game is on system drive

 

[Bruhmoment]

Civ IV is in my Games folder, I don't think that's documents so that's out of the problem.
Brand new version first time playing - also not the problem.
I ran the game as administrator, same error. Keeps crashing after what is that tech called - Soft-hammer percussion? First error is TRACEBACK CALL error, the other one is something with the files, and the other one is - some repeating letters x0x0x00x0x00x0x00x0x00x0x0x00x or something like that

 

[raxo2222]

Civ IV is in my Games folder, I don't think that's documents so that's out of the problem.
Brand new version first time playing - also not the problem.
I ran the game as administrator, same error. Keeps crashing after what is that tech called - Soft-hammer percussion? First error is TRACEBACK CALL error, the other one is something with the files, and the other one is - some repeating letters x0x0x00x0x00x0x00x0x00x0x0x00x or something like that

My games folder IS in my documents folder!

This is why you are getting errors
Move mod to where you installed game - search for Civ4BeyondSword.exe
Then open that folder, go to Mods folder and place it there

 

[Bruhmoment]

No, I placed it in GAMES, not MY GAMES, silly. I have those two seperate, so... I don't know
If you want, I could try to send error messages

 

[Thunderbrd]

Usually the path is supposed to be C: Program Files (x86)/Firaxis Games/Sid Meier's Civilization 4/Beyond the Sword/Mods

Older games like this don't work when the mod is placed in the Documents/Games folder (or ANY alternative mirrored non-specific path as the above is shown to be in the install registry) - that's a more recent innovation that is incompatible with Civ IV

 

[Bruhmoment]

Interesting. Looks like my game was installed on a different location. I'm not really sure if I can fix this, then. Well, thanks for helping atleast.

 

[Toffer90]

Interesting. Looks like my game was installed on a different location. I'm not really sure if I can fix this, then. Well, thanks for helping atleast.

Do you have steam, gog, or physical disc installation of BtS?

If you want, I could try to send error messages

To get proper error messages with tracing you need to set some values in
"...\Documents\My Games\Beyond the Sword\CivilizationIV.ini"
loggingenabled = 1 → logs errors to the PythonErr.log file.
hidepythonexceptions = 0 → gives in game pop ups with errors