The Ancient Mediterranean MOD

Yes allright, but please could you use something like voteing for the mediteranean emperor or something like that?

I don't know if religous victory or something like the UN fits in TAM.
I think time will ran out before anybody conquered the whole map.
But a diplomatic victory would not fit. cause rome conquerde the land arround the mediteranean sea. but later there were to goths and the other german tribes and the hunns. and yes for a short time they controlled the mediteranean sea (the ancient world) but then the empire disappeared. Roman church was surely left in some regions. but i don't think that it tooked much controll over the ancient cittizen.
so i really don't know how to set a diplomatic victory in tam.

maybe over a tradeingcenter (voteing for the tradeingcenter of the ancient world) but tradeingcenter changed. and why should gaul be the tradeingcenter of the ancient world.

Oh thamis maybe you should think about other victory conditions. you could set religous victory (like that mod) with 51% or something like that and also add something like the inquisition units wich remove non state religions. that you could conquer the world for you religion. but i disslike the idea of a technology wo means you win the game cause you are now christian. that sounds not right for me in thinking fo the spreading of this religion arround the world the world came in darkness, not in the light jesus brought. if you know. a roman general had a fight aggainst germans and he wanted to win and he painted red crosses on the shilds of his legions and the won the battle. an times after that rome developed their state religion their church. wich was realy roman like, like romans where these times. obvoiusly a cross (as that ting were people got killed in ancient times by the gouverment - like today elektric chairs as a sign of a peasefully religion doesn't realy fits togehter.) but that my personal opinion and i know there are people who dislike having discussions about religion. so i hope we can take this now out of the forum, cause here is not the tread whats the true behind the scene or something like that, that is tam and tam should be now the topic.
thank you
 
BenGee171 said:
Yes allright, but please could you use something like voteing for the mediteranean emperor or something like that?

I think the point here BenGee is that it doesn't matter what religon it its, you are focusing on it because obvously weighs on all of our minds because we can relate to it the most. You could take Greek Pantheon or Egyption pantheon and win a religous victory. You would just have to spread it all over the place and get the other civs to elect you. This game in no way a reflection of beliefs or whatever.

Don't read so much into it. Its a simulation. Based on the way it was back in the Ancient Med.
 
Sqhype, I wanted to defy Rome as Illyrians, but once I saw their legions I suddenly realized their importance for history and decided to become good friends and give them a low-interest loan. I always liked Latin more then Greek... I'll wait for that armored infantry.
Yea, historically Romans were able to conquer the Illyrians ... and then use those same Illyrians for some of the strongest warriors in their military. "Illyrian warriors subsequently distinquished themselves as legionaries in Roman armies, and were recruited heavily by Septimus Severus for the Praetorian Guard."
"Illyrians distinguished themselves as warriors in the Roman legions and made up a significant portion of the Jovians and Herculians imperial guard of the Roman Emperors, from their assignment to the task in 284 by Diocletian, when they replaced the Praetorian Guard, until 988 when they were replaced by the Varangian Guard of the Byzantine Empire."

the mercenary mod really look s interesting! I talked a bit about it with Thamis, and we both think it could be really good to have that in TAM... It's planned, bot not in the near future. Maybe in a couple of versions! Would need some adjustments of course, but I'll certainly implement it!
Hey buddy, now you're getting into Python. That's my territory! :p
 
@ religious/diplomatic victory

It seems that some people feel offended by the idea of a victory only available to christian civilizations (probably not their own religion).

My humble opinion:

Put aside any religious feelings and take a look at the game. Christianity is a religion that comes into the game quite late. So it will be hard to christianize more than half of the mediterranean empires.
Making it possible to win a diplomatic victory having everyone vote for druidism wouldn't really be hard. You could work on that victory almost from the beginning of the game.

So religious/diplomatic victory via christianity makes some sense.
And concerning the other monothesitic religions: Judaism was never set up to conquer the world and Islam came in after the ancient times.

And for all those hating "peaceful winning AI": just make your empire big enough. They need a 2/3 vote.
 
Yea, practically any religion can win a religious victory. However, understand that around the time this game ends (550 AD) wasn't a significant portion of the Mediterranean Christian? At least the northern part in Europe ...
 
Notarzt said:
@ religious/diplomatic victory


My humble opinion:

Put aside any religious feelings and take a look at the game. Christianity is a religion that comes into the game quite late. So it will be hard to christianize more than half of the mediterranean empires.
Making it possible to win a diplomatic victory having everyone vote for druidism wouldn't really be hard. You could work on that victory almost from the beginning of the game.


Yeah, playing as the Greeks I easily converted the majority of the other civs to Greek Pantheon fairly early in my most recent game (sometime well before 0 A.D). So it should be a later religion used to win the religious/diplomatic victory.
 
I have heard calls for increasing movement but I want to offer an opposing opinion. In the ancient times, troop movement was a big issue. It took months to relocate armies. Part of the problem with the large empires was the need to have dispersed armies defending far flung borders. A hostile incursion might not be countered for a long time while troops were gathered and marched off to war. I could see a promotion ability, forced march, that would double infanry movement but elsewise please keep low movement rates.
 
another building assumes shape

CARAVAN HOUSE

caravanhouse_screenshot.jpg

as you can see its a simple middle east style building with a booth attached to it.
There also are a well and two dromedaries (well, you only see one, the other is behind the house)
 
BenGee171 said:
wich was realy roman like, like romans where these times. obvoiusly a cross (as that ting were people got killed in ancient times by the gouverment - like today elektric chairs as a sign of a peasefully religion doesn't realy fits togehter.) but that my personal opinion and i know there are people who dislike having discussions about religion.

Well the chair as a symbol might be meaning settling, resting, having peace. The cross is a symbol of the suffering Jesus (maybe) has gone through for the rescue of the souls of you all christs.
I would not condemn the Romans for their way of acting. They were never the first nor the only ones that could get fanatic about religions. Religions (ignoring positive aspects of religions) a way to distinguish one group of people from another. Thus religions can always be abused. This has been demonstrated not only by Romans but by all nations all over the world. And it is still happening. On every continent. In many nations.
So don't condemn the Romans :) Condemn religions to meet the point. Or condemn specific people abusing religions (seducing people through their faith) to gain more power.

Nevertheless. I doubt that such discussion grants a benefit to any of us. It depends on every single persons belief what or how he thinks about specific religions.

I for myself propose:

Technology: ... ?
Wonder: Holy <insert here *> Empire! Enabling a victory opportunity for everyone with a monotheistic state religion.
Unit ability: Missionaries may erase foreign religions from cities. (Inquisition) Inquisition like whipping (slavery) causes unrest in a city for 10 turns. Like with spreading it is the more likely that such an inquisition action fails the more foreign religions are in town.
Religious Victory:
Own at least 12 % of the cities of the world. (otherwise it's no empire)
Spread your religion to at least 60% the cities of the world. (otherwise the religion is not considered powerful enough)
Erase foreign religions from at least 90% of your own cities. (otherwise you're not really guided by the one true god)

If you achieve this you can call yourself Holy <insert here *> Emperor and win a religous victory.

* If the founder of Judaism is Babylon and you (maybe Egyptian) win the religous victory through Judaism you can call yourself "Holy Babylonian Emperor of the Egyptian Nation"

Similarly if you are German and Christ, the founder of Christianity is Roman and you win through Christianity your nation is called "Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation".

I would only enable this for Monotheistic religions. Do we have Islam? The Islamic Expansion did not create such a Holy Empire because they somehow accepted foreign religions, though preventing the spread of it (A christ could never have a muslim wife or spread his religion but it was allowed the other way around (muslims could take christian wifes). Thus foreign religions were slowly but steadily extinguished.).
Or we do choose 2 or 3 late religions enabling the religious vitory for them.
 
As there is discussion about religion I would like to come back to a proposal that's been made quite often and by different persons:

Make religions end-of-line technologies and make them only available to certain civilizations (every nation has access to 1 or 2 religions it may discover).

e.g.
- Druidism: Gaul, Briton, German, Goth, Scyths
- Greek Pantheon: Rome, Mycenae, Lydia, Getae
...

I think it should be clear what I mean.
For how to do this. See EE3-MOD.

The&#237;s way we should handle polytheistic religions.
Monotheistic religions should be free for everyone.
(only because a victory-conditions is bound to that)
 
Laurino said:
1.6 is nearly done. Still got some stuff to do though.

Warriors city defense are gone, as are spearman hill defenses bonus, and archers now all have 20% city defense.

Plenty of new buildings will be in, along with some pretty cool units.

the mercenary mod really look s interesting! I talked a bit about it with Thamis, and we both think it could be really good to have that in TAM... It's planned, bot not in the near future. Maybe in a couple of versions!;) Would need some adjustments of course, but I'll certainly implement it!

great news....

Any idea on when its being released, Im going to start a MP campaign and I'd rather wait until 1.6?
 
I think you should keep the religious or diplomatic victory out of TAM. Diplomacy wasn't very developed anyway in the Old World nor was there a UN like institution. Rome did not become the strongest because of its religious beliefs but because of its army. Once its political system colapsed internally, the empire fell apart. Remember also that even then there were several interpretations of Christ's preachings in the Middle East (eventually, this led to the schism) as there are today. And if I recall correctly, Armenia was the first state to adopt christianity as its state religion. . I don't think there were even missionaries in those days for other religions then christianity. And yes, it is only a game in the end...

I see a point in the forced march promotion as proposed. Most old empires fell apart because they were too busy expanding far away from their capitals that then fell to the internal opposition or the invading foreigners.

The caravan house looks nice!
 
and another building assumes shape

GRAVEYARD

graveyard_screenshot.jpg

size may seem a little small, but I don't want it to take more space in the city
 
Great buildings Notzart.

And your ideas about religion are spot on. You need to make it like EE3 where it can spread everywhere, but can't be founded by everyone.
 
Ingvinr Frey said:
Played the 1,5version last night and I'm in awe!! This mod looks fantastic already!:wow:

In TAM for Civ3 the phoenicians always got beaten up early on[...]

strange in my experience it's been always the contrary.
 
Notarzt said:
As I designed them I can give you an "pre-okay" for using them.
Final decision is up to thamis, as I designed them for him.
If he wants TAM to be very exclusive .... let's see.

thamis said:
Hey Locutus old chap!

Of course you can use our units and resources!

Thanks guys! I had already given up on finding anything to use as Battering Ram when Notarzt made me jump of my chair in excitement, and some of that building art is looking mighty good as well :)

Also, thanks for the suggestions. I think Garden, Carpenter, Well, Brewery, and Tavern (req. Brewery) will definitely go into the game!

Glad I could be of help.

By now, I've compiled a list of wonders for my mod. I'm not terribly happy with some choices, I'll definitely need a second pass at it, but I wanna get some playtesting in first. Until then I figure I could at least share what I have with you guys, it might give you some ideas. Note that my scenario is set in the early Iron Age so nothing's much newer than 500 BC, beyond that you're on you're own :)

Code:
Wonder				Suggested Effect	City		Built
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Great Pyramid			Great Pyramid		Thebes		2600 BC
Epic of Gilgamesh		Heroic Epic		(Babylonia)	2000 BC
Etemenanki/Tower of Babel	Angkor Wat		Babylon		2000 BC
Great Royal Palace		Versailles		Assur		1800 BC
Tumilat Canal			Collosus		Pithom/Bubastis	1800 BC
Defuffa of Kerma		Stonehenge		Kerma		1700 BC
Labyrinth			Sistine Chapel		Knossos		1700 BC
Valley of the Kings		Hagia Sophia		Memphis		1600 BC
Oracle				Oracle			Delphi		1400 BC
Lion Gate			Pentagon		Hattusas	1350 BC
Walls of Tyre			Chichen Itza		Tyre		1000 BC
Great Ziggurat			Spiral Minaret		Calah (Nimrud)	850 BC
Harbors of Carthage		Great Lighthouse	Carthage	814 BC
Palace of Sennacherib		Kremlin			Nineveh		700 BC
Library of Ashurbanipal		Great Library		Nineveh		650 BC
Hanging Gardens			Hanging Gardens		Babylon		600 BC
(Iliad &) Odyssey		National Epic		(Greece)	600 BC
Temple of Artemis		Notre Dame		Ephesus		550 BC
Apadana				Taj Mahal		Persepolis	518 BC
Parthenon			Parthenon		Athens		438 BC
Statue of Zeus			Statue of Liberty	Olympia		435 BC
 
Whit civics Theocracy can stop the Ai religious victory or the Ai yours.
For me make sens the religious victory wan the Ai can make a reaction to yours religious victory....
 
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