The Ancient Mediterranean MOD

deo said:
Ok, just finished the game with the Illyrians, won with diplo and all I can say is, fantastic work! Well done guys :thumbsup: and although i didnt try many mods, i find this the best! Keep up the good work! :)
Thanks for trying it out Deo, and I'm glad you liked it :)

Seven05, I personally am glad to hear that we've been able to break your habits :lol:

I agree that we should make siege weapons more interesting/useful, beginning with giving them more strength so that they're a little bit more useful, at least when it comes to defending in a stack. In terms of a temporary city attack promotion from being in a stack with a siege tower, that idea doesn't really fly with me ... but we will have something similar for the Heroes, you can be sure about that :)
 
More comments on the Huge mediterranean map playing as the Hittites. Playing normal speed at Prince difficulty.

Now it's 10 AD and I just discovered ... bronze working. Most civs have 2-3 more tech than I do, but it's pretty darn slow because of City maintenance that prevent you from expanding.

Babylonians were killed by Barbs, Persia and Media were city hopping because of the barbs until recently, carthage has trouble expanding because of the barbs too. Now, because most civs got to bronze working, they are starting to strike back at the barbs and they are no longer much of a threat.

Most of the eastern civs were having huge problems against barbs early on. I've seen stacks of over 30 warriors roaming around, razing one city after another. And because of the really slow tech pace, even a normally defended city is no match against stacks of warriors until you get to bronze working.

Most civs have about 6 cities, max 8-9. European civs are the strongest, beside 1-2 exceptions. Expanding and fielding a good army is now mostly impossible because of the high maintenance. This then leads to all the problems cited above.

Is the Huge map properly configured as far as maintenance cost and tech pace? It's rediculously slow and time is flying by.
 
Playing Persia on Prince (Prince of Persia? - that was a great game!) at Normal speed, I too found the barbs to be all out of proportion. Stacks and stacks in never-endig waves.
No fun at all.
 
Playing the huge map and I never thought I'd say it but I kinda miss the Illyrians. Any thoughts to adding them back as a barb civ? I'm expanding just fine as Rome and am way out in front with techs but for some reason the Greeks have been dead last for most of the game even with the Kolcheans wiped out early and a golden age. I'll move up to prince level for the next game and give them a try. Also, what if spearman units had a negative bonus against attacking cites? They're still pretty much the only thing I build though the javeline troops are getting better for the early game.
 
Shqype said:
I agree that we should make siege weapons more interesting/useful, beginning with giving them more strength so that they're a little bit more useful, at least when it comes to defending in a stack. In terms of a temporary city attack promotion from being in a stack with a siege tower, that idea doesn't really fly with me ... but we will have something similar for the Heroes, you can be sure about that :)
Well the thing with siege towers is that they really didn't damage anything. So having a siege tower that destroys city defenses seems a bit odd whereas giving the attacking units in the same tile a bonus equal to defeating the city walls would be just about right for them.

Currently as far as the TAM siege weapons go the ram is useless. Prior to discovering mining no city will have enough of a bonus to justify bringing siege weapons. Once you discover mining the sapper is a better choice.

The catapult is OK but compared to the fire catapult (which doesn't require greek fire tech, should it? ) it isn't as good. Fire catapults can simply ignore the city bonus and just attack, they do very well even with no promotions. In a typical siege three or four fire catapults will not only damage the entire stack of defenders but they also tend to kill a few in the process. They do enough damage that you can skip bombarding the defenses and your attackers will be fine unless you didn't bring enough units.

In the end the city defenses are so underpowered that siege is a novelty. In the early game all you need are a couple of archers with a stack of spearmen
to take any city. Later in the game you replace archers with fire catapults. In my last game I had a stack of heavy infantry that were all upgraded axemen with all three city radier promotions. Eight of them with a pair of fire catapults could just walk through anything the AI could muster as city defense, not even a city on a hill with a +60% cultural defense bonus and a stack of pikemen & bowmen slowed me down.

So I don't think increasing their strength will help them at all. What they need is something that makes them useful additions to the stack be it collateral damage or temporary stack promotions. It might help if the defense bonuses for the cities could get higher then 60% and got up there quicker, that would make the bombardment ability important and then their bombard strength would be a good measure of usefulness.
 
Played a great game as the Egyptians this weekend with a lot of cool features, including several (!!) ai/ai wars. Managed to found Heliopolitan gods and in Heliopolis too. As you probably noticed, I'm a bit obsessed with things like that. A great artist was born in my capital, and even though Elvis is a 20th century artist it didn't bother me at all. It was just so good seing Elvis rockin´ in Memphis again. :D

The Tartessians aren't spreading like intended but I'm sure a little redistribution of resources between them and the Iberians will fix that. Started a couple of games where I kept entering Worlbuilder to see what the two produced and when. It seems as if the Iberians becomes more and more paralyzed the faster Argantonio spreads his nation. When I altered their resources things worked out better, but I haven't found the perfect formula yet. Has anyone seen a game with a strong Viriato?
 
I have a strange bug.
None of my units can remove the "black fog", which means I'm unable to explore the map. Only the cities by expanding reveal the map.
My units can steal go in the black but I'm unable to see them.

Then after a few turns, the game freeze and I had to reboot my computer.

The previous version of this mod was working well for me.
 
I have it that parts of the minimap are always black (like the carthage part of Africa). As if it could be configured somewhere how big the map is (for the minimap) and this value would be wrong.
 
Sorry, I've been busy tweaking the normal map in world builder, finally managed to get a strong Egypt going. However, there's something strange about the Iberians. The AI for them appears to be mentally challenged. I tweaked their area as I stated way back, and the AI still doesn't seem capable of getting more than a few cities for them. Tartissians haven't crossed the med in 3 games now, and instead, opt to colonize most of the Iberian penninsula.

I just had a very strange game over the weekend too. I seriously tweaked the region where Egypt plays...too much to list here. I'm willing to email the save file for 5500 BC. That file will also have several other changes, such as the ones I've talked about for Mycenae, Iberians, and Tartessians.

Back to the strange game. 1) Agememnon actually colonized very well. However, everyone else did not, well, except for me anyway. I think the AI puts too much weight on distance to AI cities in their colonization decisions. 2) Iberians colonized a little past the mountains to the NE, which apparently through the Gauls and Germanic tribes out of wack. Tartessians never crossed the Med. The barbarians penned in Carthage (I think partly because I, as the Egyptians didn't go barbarian hunting too much). Mycenaean expansion North and East and into the Med (close to actual history I think) seems to have thrown Illyria, the Gaetians, the Scythians, the Lydians, and the Romans off better settlement choices. The Germanic tribes...I don't know what they were thinking with some of their city placements.
3) I gave the Hittites a spot of wheet to help combat Lydian expansion, which actually ended up balancing the Lydians and the Hittites, but also seems to have led to a strange settlement path, which disrupted the developement of Phoenicia, the Kolchis and the Babylonians.

In summary, I have a 600 point lead in 650BC, am well into the Classical age, and my nearest competition is Hammurabi and Agememnon and Dido, but they are all severly backward in tech, compaired to me.

I do not believe that my tweaks to the Egyptian terrain should have made that much of a difference. I did give Egypt a healthy industrial boost (let's face it, they are a little crippled in that department otherwise).

For whatever reason, the AI's settlement strategy lead to a cascade effect that rippled all around the world, and now, there are only 3 powers with any real research rate to speak of.

Very bizaar.
 
sapon said:
I too have been changing the starting position of Mycenae. However I wanted more than one city in the Greek mainland so I move Mycenae one tile east and north to position X:45 Y:17. I also move the clay one tile north to the hills (position X: 44 Y:17). I add one sheep to the east of Mycenae (X:46 Y:17). Move olives to grassland (X:44 Y:18) and add a grassland at X:44 Y:19. I also improve western Greece a bit by adding one grassland in the west of Greece (X:41 Y:16), move the fish one tile east (X:40 Y:16), change grassland to hill (X:42 Y:16), and add a river at X:42 Y:17 & X:41 Y:17. This significantly improves the power of Greece and makes it a regional power for many years.

Seperate note, I always move Romes starting copper to the city radius (X:32 Y:23). Without it Rome has very little production and wastes the copper.

Cheers

I would love to finally figure out how to find out what coordinates I'm messing with so I can better communicate what I've been doing with the map. Any help here? Thank you!

P.S. Yes, I thought about making two cities fit in the normal map, but the central location where the copper is now is just too good. I haven't tried the huge map yet, I took a look at it in world builder and decided that it was awesome and too vast for the game play time that I like. When I've got a solid few days or weeks to try it out, I'll give it a whirl.
 
kwarriorpoet said:
I do not believe that my tweaks to the Egyptian terrain should have made that much of a difference. I did give Egypt a healthy industrial boost (let's face it, they are a little crippled in that department otherwise).

What's the problem about Egypt's health? They always perform very good. Their health is because of their flood plains. They've got some food resources neir to compensate it though. And in every second game they're the super power.

So why compensate for Egypts health issues? The only thing they really have problems (that you can measure) are:
1) Because of their food they very fast run into unhappiness - not a problem at all because you can opt the food away or whip
2) Because of the very many plains they've mostly small production in the north. But that's compensation for their severe boni regarding techs
 
thamis said:
You exit worldbuilder and move the mouse over the changed plot, while holding the shift key.

Alternatively, you can get MapView, which is located in the utility programs forum here on CivFanatics.

Thank you for the response, disregard repeat of question, I must have skipped by this post.

I'll get to it soon.
 
Ubik Liryc said:
I have a strange bug.
None of my units can remove the "black fog", which means I'm unable to explore the map. Only the cities by expanding reveal the map.
My units can steal go in the black but I'm unable to see them.

Then after a few turns, the game freeze and I had to reboot my computer.

The previous version of this mod was working well for me.

I have no clue what that might be. We didn't change anything from the last version to this one which might deal with it. It's actually impossible to mod the fog of war without using the SDK. See if it occurs on all maps.
 
Pvblivs said:
What's the problem about Egypt's health? They always perform very good. Their health is because of their flood plains. They've got some food resources neir to compensate it though. And in every second game they're the super power.

So why compensate for Egypts health issues? The only thing they really have problems (that you can measure) are:
1) Because of their food they very fast run into unhappiness - not a problem at all because you can opt the food away or whip
2) Because of the very many plains they've mostly small production in the north. But that's compensation for their severe boni regarding techs

Well, then perhaps they are too powerful after my tweaks. As soon as I get home, I can write more details. I was able to build three cities around the Nile, one to the west near the fish, and one to the East...which was another tweaked plot. With these 5 cities, I could just sit back and churn out wonders, hehe...like what Egypt did, yes?

My tweaks were all about production, not health or happiness. I am going to download mapview so I can bust out some coordinates for you. Stone and Marble, shouldn't Egypt have them both?
 
From reading the thread I realize the main issues of concern at this time are such things as game play, maps and city names. However, I am interested in knowing what level of priority the development team has placed on cosmetic issues? I noticed in the current game that I am playing that many of the world wonder screens (can static pictures be used?) are blank and when a Great Prophet is born his Holy Site building icons reflect those of vanilla civ. While some may consider my concerns trivial, I think attention to detail makes for a more professional and polished MOD when all is said and done. Thanks.
 
One thing I noticed through, the pyramids, that IIRC in reality were build 3000 years BC, come pretty late in the mod IMO or did I forgot something?
 
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