The Byzantine Empire

[Art Grin]

From what we've seen it's not really hard to found a religion if you really want to. Build a shrine and a temple and wait until you have 200 faith. Considering there's only one civ that get's a religion earlier (Celts) the Byzantines aren't at a disadvantage really. It's not like you have to ignore every other aspect of the game in order to found a religion.
Also both of their UU come at a time when religions are already founded( late classical era or medieval era), so there is no reason why they shouldn't be capable of using them.

 

[nokmirt]

The CataPhract is strength 15 not 13.

Having the Cataphract stronger than the Swordsman is pretty neat IMO. I'm not sure if all the mounted units have had their vs city penalty removed like the archery units seem to have had.

What is the new strength of knight? It was 18, and companion cavalry has been brought down from 14 to 13? Horse units are dumbed down. Cataphract is hopeless if it does not replace the knight. What a blow for the Byzantium civ.

Horse units are not going to be effective vs cities, otherwise why would they change siege weapons so vastly, to make them all important for besieging cities. It is obvious siege weapons should take on that role. Horseman of course should be effective vs ranged units, siege units and swordsmen (in numbers). They should be good for smashing injured units and/or have a decent flank bonus.

 

[Arkangelus]

Considering there's only one civ that get's a religion earlier (Celts)

* Two. Maya's UB gives more faith than a shrine, so thats a boost. And we dont know what the Stele does.

 

[elprofesor]

Nor the new mud pyramid mosque, nor the new burial tomb...

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

Nor the new mud pyramid mosque, nor the new burial tomb...

Why do you say "new"? where did you hear that those two are getting upgraded/changed?

 

[Louis XXIV]

Do they still replace the Temple (which now gives faith) and do they still give culture (or now faith)? The point is we don't know how these two have changed.

It might not be necessary, but the thought occurs to me that the Burial Tomb could also replace the Shrine because there's no need to make it a classical building rather than Ancient. It would give happiness no matter what anyway.

 

[prince_caspian]

From the 2K forum:

Dromon

Dominant Ancient Era Naval Unit used to own the seas through the Classic Era with its ranged attack. Only the Byzantines may build it.

So it replaces the trireme, is ranged not melee, ranged str 10 and combat str 8.

 

[elprofesor]

Ugh... now we have yet another unique ranged unit that upgrades into a melee unit...

 

[Art Grin]

From the 2K forum:

Dromon

Dominant Ancient Era Naval Unit used to own the seas through the Classic Era with its ranged attack. Only the Byzantines may build it.

So it replaces the trireme, is ranged not melee, ranged str 10 and combat str 8.

I don't like that. If the Cataphract is truly a horseman replacement it means that both Byzantine UU are in the same era. Maybe the Cataphract is a medieval unit after all.

Btw where did that screenshot come from?

 

[ampmclock]

QUESTION::::

Does it make sense for Byzantines to have Constantine as their leader? If so, if they do multiple leaders later that they put him in.

 

[Louis XXIV]

I don't like that. If the Cataphract is truly a horseman replacement it means that both Byzantine UU are in the same era. Maybe the Cataphract is a medieval unit after all.

Btw where did that screenshot come from?

Yeah, that's bad. I wouldn't mind it if they had no Medieval ship, but they have the Galleass. I know we're talking 500 or so, but that's not the classical age (and certainly not the ancient age). Perhaps they need to flesh out the dark ages a bit more, but they shouldn't use this gap to put them in the Classical era. You'll literally have not only Byzantium and Rome competing at the same time, you'll have Byzantium and Alexander's Greece.

 

[Uberfrog]

That's baffling, to say the least.

They include a (ranged!) medieval ship, give the Carthaginians a Trireme replacement, yet still make the Dromon replace the trireme and make it ranged.

I mean, I was thinking it wouldn't make sense to make Greek Fire a ranged attack at all, given that it is pumped out of a siphon. But it makes even less sense to make it a ranged attack that replaces a melee unit in an era before Greek fire even appeared. A unit that already has a unique version for someone else.

It'd be like if they had introduced a privateer unit and made the Sea Beggar a caravel.

 

[Buccaneer]

While I agree with some of the arguments, you (and Firaxis) have to think in terms of balanced gameplay - not necessarily was tied to the civ or era(s) historically.

 

[prince_caspian]

I don't like that. If the Cataphract is truly a horseman replacement it means that both Byzantine UU are in the same era. Maybe the Cataphract is a medieval unit after all.

Btw where did that screenshot come from?

I don't know about Arioch's sources but even before this the unfortunate leak already showed dromons to come somewhere early in classical, only like the others I was certainly deceived by the firespitting graphic into thinking it was melee. Again, I'd say it's really too early to misjudge Byzantines even if the UU placements seem a little awkward. We don't know how the UA - again a strong early game advantage - can interact with cataphracts that can be bought with faith, or with dromons.

 

[Calouste]

Yeah, that's bad. I wouldn't mind it if they had no Medieval ship, but they have the Galleass. I know we're talking 500 or so, but that's not the classical age (and certainly not the ancient age). Perhaps they need to flesh out the dark ages a bit more, but they shouldn't use this gap to put them in the Classical era. You'll literally have not only Byzantium and Rome competing at the same time, you'll have Byzantium and Alexander's Greece.

Galleys were the main part of navies in the Eastern Mediterrenean until the battle of Lepanto in 1571, where about 200 galleys took part on each side. The Byzantine Empire was pretty much finished as a major power after the Sack of Constantinople in 1204. Galleases and Caravels first appeared in the 15th century. Galleys just lasted an extremely long time, also because there is not that much wind in the Mediterrenean.

 

[Mark the Bold]

I think the Byzantines should get a one-time GG Named Belisarius upon hitting their FIRST happiness-induced golden age. Belisarius should have an additional +5% to his combat bonus for his troops against other CIVS, AND a +25% bonus against all barbarians.

Its not a too overpowering, supplements their weak-sauce UA and is consistent with their historical strength. Belisarius was a badass who worked his way up from the gutters to become the most feared general of his day.

Woe to the Vandals and Ostragoths! (and Persians too!)

 

[Guandao]

Can anyone here understand what Theodora is saying? Any Greek speakers?

 

[Louis XXIV]

Galleys were the main part of navies in the Eastern Mediterrenean until the battle of Lepanto in 1571, where about 200 galleys took part on each side. The Byzantine Empire was pretty much finished as a major power after the Sack of Constantinople in 1204. Galleases and Caravels first appeared in the 15th century. Galleys just lasted an extremely long time, also because there is not that much wind in the Mediterrenean.

The issue isn't about Galleys, it's about Byzantine fireships. Those didn't exist in the Classical period when Constantinople was just the Greek city of Byzantion.

 

[Turavian]

Can anyone here understand what Theodora is saying? Any Greek speakers?

My Greek bf translated it like this: "Oh what wonder! What is the name of this good foreign visitor? I am Theodora, friend of Byzantium."

 

[CleverFool]

The more I heard about the Byzantine UU's, the less they appeal to my particular playstyle (unfortunately). I love starting my conquests in the Medieval Era, and both the Cataphract and Dromon seem to come too early for me.

Ah well. I suppose we must wait until the game is released before coming to final conclusions.