The Castle: a Unique District

While I think of the ideas presented here as mostly well, I think it is not really needed. There is the encampment and the fort improvement already (and don't tell me those two are not supposed to represent the defense aspects of a castle or keep). + the encampment buildings already yield production. Forts could need some work, however, since they aren't that good right now. Maybe they should get extra yields - or act like roads, meaning that you don't lose the tile for other improvements but lose some yields, as proposed above by @Boris Gudenuf.
And on top of that, the city center kind of acts as a castle, too... giving that districts and neighborhoods are outside at some point. The siege mechanic makes me think, that it is intended to be like that to some point. But that's not a very good argument against external castles.

I can however see how a kind of outpost district would come with some of the ideas, if they decide to include a colonization mechanic at some point. But this is a completely other topic.
 
I like the idea of the AI refusing to cede the city because they still hold the castle.

I feel like right now forts come too late to be effective. I need strongholds during all the warring in the late early and mid-game, not right before gunpowder. Plus most of my land is already built up by then, so I'd have to demolish something to fit it in. I rarely build forts.

I like the outpost idea though, although that's something different. Kind of like a pseudo-colony, a border fort or a placeholder for intent to colonize. :p
 
I like the idea of the AI refusing to cede the city because they still hold the castle.
Maybe the encampment should act like this - not changing sides if you conquer the city that built it. Instead you have to 'conquer' it as well.

And another idea to buff forts and make them more useful:
Right now a fort gives +defense strength and that's it.
Why not give it walls with 50 HP. No ranged attack, but otherwise it acts like walls in cities/encampments, meaning garrisoned units take no damage as long as the walls stand. It could also be that the HP of the garrisoned unit is always damaged a little, like city health. This way a fort might be worth a tile in strategically important locations or everywhere when under attack. A crossbow/field gun stationed inside one of those could damage an attack force or delay the attack a few turns. It would also increase the need for siege or support units. The fort would belong to the civ that 'conquers' it by stationing a unit inside, even when not in your territory. After the fight (if not damaged for 5 turns) it can be repaired with a builder. You would have to be careful not to place a fort in a way that an enemy bombard could fire at your city from it as well.
 
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I view the encampment more like a Roman legion's camp. Training facilities and a palisade for defense, built to resist enemy incursions but not necessarily to hold out for a protracted siege lasting months or years.

It's still defensible, but doesn't have the same gravitas of a big stone castle looming over the city.

I want to be casually raiding Barbarossa's lands until getting abruptly stopped in my tracks by his imposing fortifications.

I want to see Montezuma quail and sue for peace because he could not storm my inpregnable castle despite a siege.
 
The Tower of London, Warwick Castle, Nottingham Castle, Hastings Castle and dozens of others were built immediately adjoining the towns they protected. It kind of defeats the purpose of having a castle if it's too far away for you to retreat there.

Unfortunately for your point, none of those castles were built to 'protect' the towns around them. They all started as Norman castles or Motte and Bailey forts built in 1066-67 to protect the Normans from their (rebellious) Saxon subjects, and keep down uprisings among those subjects. Rather a Reversal of the 'classic' Castle Function.

Since the majority of towns in continental Europe already had walls/fortifications protecting them by the 10th century CE, a castle in the town was redundant for the town's protection. On the other hand, when facing fast-moving raiders (Vikings, Magyars) you needed a fortified place that the villagers living Away from the walled town/city could run for when the alarm was sounded. You also, ideally, needed well-equipped troops fast enough to catch the raiders, which is where the mounted, armored knight in the castle provided both protection and Retaliation all in one.

I think that we need two mechanisms here:

City Fortifications/Walls, which we already have but need to be extended to include the possibility (with lots of Gold) to protect all or most of the city Districts as well as merely the city center. If you look at preserved medieval towns in Europe (Rothenburg-ob-Tauber is a perfect example) the city walls had to be expanded several times as the town grew, resulting in the photo-ready interior gates of the old, demilitarized walls (they provided solid back walls for new buildings and masonry 'fire breaks' to stop fires from spreading) throughout the town. Eventually, in the Industrial Era historically, the cities grew so large you had to put detached Forts around them at a considerable distance from the city center, and those subterranean, concrete/steel, artillery-filled forts were so hideously expensive that only a very few cities had them.
Conclusion: If you have the resources, allow the 'city wall' to be extended around all the districts touching the city center directly or through another district. After the initial 'City Center' wall costs could be calculated by the number of Tile Sides of Wall required. Add a District, and, as historically happened, you either plunge for more Wall or tell the people living there they are on their own - and every walled city since at least ancient Athens had People Living Around (outside the walls).

Forts protecting something important in the countryside, away from the cities and districts. These are buildable from the Ancient Era with, say, the Tech: Masonry (which also unlocks the cities' Ancient Walls) and, possibly, also the Civic Military Tradition, since they were frequently built by a local 'noble' or 'Big Man' to protect 'His' people and local power. Or, they are buildable with Masonry, but with the adding of the Civic their Maintenance Cost drops to Zero and they receive an Intrinsic Defense/Hit Points equal to 1/2 a city center with Ancient Walls.
With the Medieval Tech: Castles the Forts can be Upgraded or newly built as Castles, which with the Civic Fuedalism provides the 'benefits' of the Feudal Knightly Class: The Castle takes points of Gold/Production/Food out of the Tile, but not only has a (greatly) increased Intrinsic Defense/Hit Points, on Declaration of War provides a Knight (Feudal Retainer) free of maintenance.

When Bombards become available at Tech: Metal Casting, you can start converting Castles into Manor Houses, Chateaus, Rezidenz, or any of the other terms used to describe Stately Piles of Stone Full Of Dusty Old Aristocrats: which give Culture boosts and might even provide a 'slot' for a Great Work of Art, and later on will provide a Tourism Boost as well. And, if an enemy at some time has already destroyed the Castle, it becomes a Ruin (nice additional graphic on the map) which, in turn, provides a Tourism Boost in the Industrial and later Eras for the Tile.
 
Unfortunately for your point, none of those castles were built to 'protect' the towns around them. They all started as Norman castles or Motte and Bailey forts built in 1066-67 to protect the Normans from their (rebellious) Saxon subjects, and keep down uprisings among those subjects. Rather a Reversal of the 'classic' Castle Function.

Of course they were. Castles are for maintaining control, whether against foreign incursions or your own rebellious populace. I made this point in the OP.
 
Of course they were. Castles are for maintaining control, whether against foreign incursions or your own rebellious populace. I made this point in the OP.

But since in the game there is no real provision for revolts or rebellious subjects, 'Maintaining Control' over them has no point. It may be historically relevant - and Gorp Knows I've been accused all too often of paying too much attention to Historical Relevance - but it is not Game relevant, and is redundant if the game had a properly formulated set of conditions, attributes and rules for City Walls
 
Your people can and do revolt from time to time in Civ VI. Unfortunately it just looks like barbarians spawn in your territory.

However, I'm not arguing that castles should be built exclusively next to cities. They should be built wherever it is expedient, whether next to a city you've conquered, next to one you want to defend, or in the countryside in a strategic location.

I have no quibble with your ideas in your post re: forts/castles/walls a couple of posts ago. I like your idea about how the castles can change in function over time.

Really anything Firaxis could do to make the Middle Ages feel more medieval would be appreciated.
 
Really anything Firaxis could do to make the Middle Ages feel more medieval would be appreciated.

Given that ALL the Eras now have little but Tech to make them unique, and the peculiarities of the Medieval and Renaissance are especially bland or utterly missing in the game: I Totally Agree.
 
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