The Emperor's new Space Program

[innonimatu]

One can really rely on you to distort historical facts.

He was Alonso V's uncle, and dead when what I described happened. Any centuries-long exploration will have its ups and downs, and that obviously applies to space exploration also. Look at what happened to the Russian space program after Korolyov died.

Really, you should research before attaching the facts presented by other people.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Man, those founding fathers.. didn't they want America to dominate space? Why leave space exploration out of the constitution?

Perhaps the conservative activist Supremes can claim the Constitution infers this obligation.

 

[bhsup]

It's really simple to legitimize it. Militarize space and make its exploration and colonization establishment of space bases a fundamental issue of national defense under the responsibility of the Navy (navy because the army is limited in appropriations in ways the navy isn't)

 

[sonorakitch]

So you can outsource to them?

My views on this are mixed, and I don't really know much in-depth about it. I tend to go with the "I want space exploration to continue, but this programme was a reall bad way to do it, so I'm glad it's now dead" crowd.

No...I was kidding about that.

And I for one think this is bad. Why don't we cut the budget in places where the Feds aren't supposed to go anyways?

 

[MobBoss]

That said, some of the critics in this thread are right, cutting spending here is stupid, where it should be cut is Defense, and massively.

Yeah, we are only fighting two conflicts across the world and facing an ongoing global terrorist threat. Cutting defense makes a lot of sense in light of that.

 

[Formaldehyde]

It's really simple to legitimize it. Militarize space and make its exploration and colonization establishment of space bases a fundamental issue of national defense under the responsibility of the Navy (navy because the army is limited in appropriations in ways the navy isn't)

Actually, most of that activity would likely be in violation of the Outer Space Treaty which was signed by the US in 1966. But I think you missed the sarcasm in these posts...

 

[bhsup]

Ah crap man, foiled at every turn

 

[Formaldehyde]

Well, the good news is that you can still carry conventional arms into space. So if the ISS turns into another Virginia Tech massacre, the astronaut marines can still go up there and handle it.

 

[holy king]

is it a very significant thing to lose the geek vote?

 

[SS-18 ICBM]

Mr Obama is cancelling Constellation even though Nasa has spent some $9bn on the project already.

Is that some sunk cost fallacy reasoning?

 

[bhsup]

is it a very significant thing to lose the geek vote?

chicken head eating carnies have never been a critical swing vote.

 

[uppi]

So, does anyone want to place bets how long it takes for another president to announce a similar program?

Bonus points for anyone to predict how long it takes until that program is canceled.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

Yeah, we are only fighting two conflicts across the world and facing an ongoing global terrorist threat. Cutting defense makes a lot of sense in light of that.

Yes it does. And those two conflicts can go with it.

 

[MobBoss]

Yes it does. And those two conflicts can go with it.

Well, part of that is actually convincing the other guys to stop hostilities as well.....

Gotta plan for that do you?

Point being the military is actually one part of the budget that absolutely shouldnt be cut as its probably the main reason for the existance of the federal government in the first place....and we need a strong military presence in our world today.

And if you knew anything you would know our experts (i.e. most senior and retired generals) actually recommend growing the military by a decent margin as to increase dwell time on our units, and add some space to the combat rotations in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Tell you what Cheesy, why dont you enlist and do a couple of combat tours in 3 years or so like many of our young men and women do and THEN come back to tell me we need to cut the military. Then I might just listen to you about it at least. But until then I am simply of the opinion you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

Well, part of that is actually convincing the other guys to stop hostilities as well.....

Gotta plan for that do you?

Something tells me the Afghan and Iraqi insurgents aren't going to chase our heels back to the Eastern Seaboard.

Point being the military is actually one part of the budget that absolutely shouldnt be cut as its probably the main reason for the existance of the federal government in the first place....and we need a strong military presence in our world today.

I didn't say "let's get rid of the military," I said "let's scale it back some."

Tell you what Cheesy, why dont you enlist and do a couple of combat tours in 3 years or so like many of our young men and women do and THEN come back to tell me we need to cut the military. Then I might just listen to you about it at least. But until then I am simply of the opinion you have no idea what you are talking about.

That would not make me an authority on the matter any more than sitting behind a desk sorting legal papers would.

Its an opinion, MobBoss. I didn't say "here are proofs x, y, and z that we need to cut military spending," I said we should cut from the defense budget first because we don't need everything we spend money on there.

But then I guess social programs are less important, right? Off saving the lives of piss-poor Afghans, but taking care of the poor we create here at home is an afterthought! Lemme tell you something, MobBoss. You go work and live with the urban poor for 3 or 4 years, like so many millions do, and you come back and tell me we need to cut social welfare programs. Until then, I am simply of the opinion that you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[MobBoss]

Something tells me the Afghan and Iraqi insurgents aren't going to chase our heels back to the Eastern Seaboard.

They dont have to go to the Eastern Seaboard to kill Americans. Or havent you noticed?

I didn't say "let's get rid of the military," I said "let's scale it back some."

And I am saying thats a silly recommendation based on my previous comments.

That would not make me an authority on the matter any more than sitting behind a desk sorting legal papers would.

Again, it would at least give you an appreciation of what soldiers go through due to a smaller military than we should have.

And really, Cheesy, bringing up the desk and papers thing is really childish of you. I expect better honestly. You fully well know I havent always sat behind a desk, and have travled quite a bit around the world due to my military service. You utterly also forget that I deal with soldiers daily deploying and returning from theater.

Its an opinion, MobBoss. I didn't say "here are proofs x, y, and z that we need to cut military spending," I said we should cut from the defense budget first because we don't need everything we spend money on there.

And you are entitled to your opinion. Likewise, I am entitled to my opinion on why your opinion is rather myopic in light of the current state of our military and the ongoing situation in the world.

But then I guess social programs are less important, right?

Many of them absolutely are.

Off saving the lives of piss-poor Afghans, but taking care of the poor we create here at home is an afterthought! Lemme tell you something, MobBoss. You go work and live with the urban poor for 3 or 4 years, like so many millions do, and you come back and tell me we need to cut social welfare programs.

Dude, I gurantee I have fed more poor people than you have. My wife and I have worked homeless food ministries for churches in the Puget Sound area many times and we have been up here for over 23 years now. Dont even try to take me to task on that one. You will lose, and badly. Work in your field for 20 years or so, get some experience, and then get back with me on all that.

And yeah, just like your earlier quip about the military, I didnt say all social programs need be cut, did I?

Touche to me.

Until then, I am simply of the opinion that you have no idea what you are talking about.

Again, you are welcome to your opinion, as wrong as it may be.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Well, part of that is actually convincing the other guys to stop hostilities as well.....

Well, part of it is actually realizing that absurd US foreign policy is directly causing most of those conflicts.

And I am saying thats a silly recommendation based on my previous comments.

Even Patroklos agrees with him.

And you are entitled to your opinion. Likewise, I am entitled to my opinion on why your opinion is rather myopic in light of the current state of our military and the ongoing situation in the world.

Dude, I gurantee I have fed more poor people than you have.

While being adamantly against nearly every social program the US has?

 

[MobBoss]

Well, part of it is actually realizing that absurd US foreign policy is directly causing most of those conflicts.

Yeah, its all our fault.

Even Patroklos agrees with him.

Well, I guess that means I dont agree with Pat then does it? Btw, Pat sees it from a Navy standpoint...and honestly you dont see a lot of Naval action in Afghanistan. I see it from an Army standpoint, and I bet if Pat were in my shoes looking at what I see, perhaps he would agree with me.

While being adamantly against nearly every social program the US has?

Unlike some, I have never believed increasing bureaucracy solves social ills. I have seen more good come from non-governmental programs to be honest.

 

[Flying Pig]

Tell you what Cheesy, why dont you enlist and do a couple of combat tours in 3 years or so like many of our young men and women do and THEN come back to tell me we need to cut the military. Then I might just listen to you about it at least. But until then I am simply of the opinion you have no idea what you are talking about.

That's probably flawed logic - everyone is under budget all the time; people in all the other government departments are saying the same thing. That said, in this country at least I'm strongly against cutting defence - although not Trident - much more

 

[Theige]

Of course those senior and retired generals want to grow the military, they are part of the most terribly inefficient and wasteful government department of them all!