The Jotnar in Wildmana

[to_xp]Gekko;9159484 said:
actuall, why not both plus 3 ring cities? that should be unique enough.

then you could mirror them with the Doviello: one ring cities, no improvements and higher yields from base terrains, that improve with later techs. you could also have doviello camps behave like pirate coves in wild mana, upgrading over time, can't be built adjacent and spawning beastmen etc. :)
Click to expand...

Well, they have three ring cities in RifE, so I didn't mention it. Can't speak for Sephi, so didn't bother. ;)

I like my interpretation of the Doviello, but no reason Sephi can't do that.

RifE has it's plans for a one-ring civ. Two of them, actually. We only have.... 6 civs on the drawing board, all very different. Plus the 4 or so that are being developed as modmods by non-team members, which may or may not make it in eventually. :p
 
I don't find it very funny that Egrass the Founder dies when I join the Cult of Esus as the Jotnar...
 
Ive been testing for a couple of weeks as the Jotnar because of a post regarding the Citizen/Worker/Settler help tags not working (which I thought I had fixed).
I have dealt with almost all the posted issues, though still have not been able to build a Triton or a Worker to date (I recall being able to build a worker previously).
I am barely 50% through the time line and have already won an Epic/Destiny Victory with Basium.

I am not sure if it was intended for this victory to be achievable so soon in the game or not. I will attach the win save here for anyone who may want to review this. And to be honest I am not sure what exactly caused the victory conditions to begin with, I was not looking for it, I was playing as a builder/expansive per my normal routine.

Anyway continuing play to see about the Triton and the Worker issues still in the murck.
 

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This post is copied/moved from Download thread by GW

bread smith said:
I also think that the Jotnar shouldn't be able to build any boats like Caravel or Frigate. They are satisfied with their Serpents, Tortoise and later the Tritons.
Those Giants are just too big for wooden ships...
Click to expand...
 
this post copied/moved from Download thread by GW

bread smith said:
I have Astronomy since ages. And the Saveopedia also indicates, that the Tortuise is the only unit to be upgraded to Triton. I hope, you will find the clue...
Click to expand...
 
The Jotnar don't really need the worker unit since the Citizen can do everything it can. If you really wanted it in,I expect you could activate it by changing the unit specification from the JOTNAR_CIV4UnitInfos.xml that makes the UNITCLASS_WORKER use type NONE to be UNIT_JOT_WORKER instead.

To fix the inability to make Tritons I'm pretty sure that all you need to do is change the UnitClassUpgrade that says UNITCLASS_GALLEON to be UNITCLASS_TRITON for both the UNIT_JOT_ADULT and UNIT_GIANT_TORTOISE_JOT unit types in JOTNAR_CIV4UnitInfos.xml.
 
By the way, if you add the Jotnar Woker in I would expect that a captured worker would transform from whatever it was (human, elf, orc, etc.) into a giant(kin). As it is now, if you capture one it stays what it was.
 
God-Emperor said:
The Jotnar don't really need the worker unit since the Citizen can do everything it can. If you really wanted it in,I expect you could activate it by changing the unit specification from the JOTNAR_CIV4UnitInfos.xml that makes the UNITCLASS_WORKER use type NONE to be UNIT_JOT_WORKER instead.

To fix the inability to make Tritons I'm pretty sure that all you need to do is change the UnitClassUpgrade that says UNITCLASS_GALLEON to be UNITCLASS_TRITON for both the UNIT_JOT_ADULT and UNIT_GIANT_TORTOISE_JOT unit types in JOTNAR_CIV4UnitInfos.xml.
Click to expand...

God-Emporer,

You were correct, I was able to fix the Triton to be upgradeable from both the Giant Tortoise or the Jotnar Citizen.

Breadsmith are you able to fix the files as GE described. If not let me know.

in regards to the Jotnar Worker, Sephi and I had discussed this previously (see post above or below in this thread), and he indicate it should remain. The Jotnar Worker has the ability to Bombard City walls. I apparently disabled this prior to getting his instruction, and am working on re-installing it as he intended.
 
Just to recall the points we discussed in the Downloadthread and a few more:

1. Apart from the fact that it was not possible to get any Tritons at all, I think they shouldn't upgrade from the Giant Tortoise. It's just unrealistic to transform a Water turtle into a Giantkin. IMO, they should upgade from Citizens or, to make it more difficult, from Level 6 Hill Giants. Or maybe it would make sence if they needed Water Mana...?

2. Same with other non-Giant units. I've found an Adept during a Dungeon Event and was able to upgrade him to a Jotnar Skald. That just doesn't feel right to me, too. I think it's the same with disciple units that could upgrade to the Giant verion.
By the way, that upgraded Skald didn't get the Seasoned, Renown, etc. promotions. Is it because they are coming with unit age and the Adept allready was over 100 when I upgraded him?

3. IMO, the Jotnar shouldn't be able to build any ships, since the Giants are sipmly too big for those little wooden nutshells. They are happy enough with their Tortoises, Serpents and Tritons. Also, I don't know if they should get the crew promotions. A skeleton crew riding on huge water animals?

4. Is it intended, that Religions can spead to Jotnar Cities, since they don't have any effects for them? I got a Disciple of the Leaves though an Event in the early game and then founded the Leaves-Religion with him in Homestead. And later even built the religious wonder with a great priest!

5. Concerning the Jotnar Worker, I think God-Emperor is right when he says that they are not needed, since every Citizen can do the Job perfectly.


graywarden said:
Breadsmith are you able to fix the files as GE described. If not let me know.
Click to expand...

Where is that "JOTNAR_CIV4UnitInfos.xml" located? I only know the normal "Civ4UnitInfo.xml" and there are no Jotnar units listed.
 
bread smith said:
Where is that "JOTNAR_CIV4UnitInfos.xml" located? I only know the normal "Civ4UnitInfo.xml" and there are no Jotnar units listed.
Click to expand...
A lot of the civs are modular, so it is in Modules (way down in the FFHPLUS stuff) rather than XML:

\Assets\Modules\NormalModules\FFHPLUS\Civs\Jotnar
 
@graywarden do you mean this unit:

Spoiler :
Code: 
<UnitInfo> 		<!-- Jotnar Worker -->
			<Class>UNITCLASS_WORKER</Class>
			<Type>UNIT_JOT_WORKER</Type>
			<Capture>UNITCLASS_WORKER</Capture>
			<Combat>NONE</Combat>
			<DefaultUnitAI>UNITAI_WORKER</DefaultUnitAI>
			<Description>TXT_KEY_UNIT_JOT_WORKER</Description>
			<Civilopedia>TXT_KEY_UNIT_JOT_WORKER_PEDIA</Civilopedia>
			<Strategy>TXT_KEY_UNIT_JOT_WORKER_STRATEGY</Strategy>
			<Help>TXT_KEY_UNIT_JOT_WORKER_HELP</Help>
			<Advisor>ADVISOR_ECONOMY</Advisor>
			<bFood>1</bFood>
			<UnitAIs>
				<UnitAI>
					<UnitAIType>UNITAI_WORKER</UnitAIType>
					<bUnitAI>1</bUnitAI>
				</UnitAI>
			</UnitAIs>
			<Builds>
				<Build>
					<BuildType>BUILD_ROAD</BuildType>
					<bBuild>1</bBuild>
				</Build>
				<Build>
					<BuildType>BUILD_FARM</BuildType>
					<bBuild>1</bBuild>
				</Build>
				<Build>
					<BuildType>BUILD_MINE</BuildType>
					<bBuild>1</bBuild>
				</Build>
				<Build>
					<BuildType>BUILD_WORKSHOP</BuildType>
					<bBuild>1</bBuild>
				</Build>
				<Build>
					<BuildType>BUILD_LUMBERMILL</BuildType>
					<bBuild>1</bBuild>
				</Build>
				<Build>
					<BuildType>BUILD_WINDMILL</BuildType>
					<bBuild>1</bBuild>
				</Build>
				<Build>
					<BuildType>BUILD_PLANTATION</BuildType>
					<bBuild>1</bBuild>
				</Build>
				<Build>
					<BuildType>BUILD_QUARRY</BuildType>
					<bBuild>1</bBuild>
				</Build>
				<Build>
					<BuildType>BUILD_PASTURE</BuildType>
					<bBuild>1</bBuild>
				</Build>
				<Build>
					<BuildType>BUILD_CAMP</BuildType>
					<bBuild>1</bBuild>
				</Build>
				<Build>
					<BuildType>BUILD_WINERY</BuildType>
					<bBuild>1</bBuild>
				</Build>
				<Build>
					<BuildType>BUILD_COTTAGE</BuildType>
					<bBuild>1</bBuild>
				</Build>
				<Build>
					<BuildType>BUILD_FORT</BuildType>
					<bBuild>1</bBuild>
				</Build>
				<Build>
					<BuildType>BUILD_REMOVE_JUNGLE</BuildType>
					<bBuild>1</bBuild>
				</Build>
				<Build>
					<BuildType>BUILD_REMOVE_FOREST</BuildType>
					<bBuild>1</bBuild>
				</Build>
			</Builds>
			<PrereqTech>NONE</PrereqTech>
			<iCost>120</iCost>
			<iAdvancedStartCost>100</iAdvancedStartCost>
			<iMoves>2</iMoves>
			<iWorkRate>120</iWorkRate>
			<iCombat>2</iCombat>
			<iXPValueAttack>8</iXPValueAttack>
			<iXPValueDefense>4</iXPValueDefense>
			<iBombardRate>20</iBombardRate>
			<iAsset>1</iAsset>
			<iPower>0</iPower>
			<UnitMeshGroups>
				<iGroupSize>1</iGroupSize>
				<fMaxSpeed>1.75</fMaxSpeed>
				<fPadTime>1</fPadTime>
				<iMeleeWaveSize>2</iMeleeWaveSize>
				<iRangedWaveSize>0</iRangedWaveSize>
				<UnitMeshGroup>
					<iRequired>2</iRequired>
					<EarlyArtDefineTag>ART_DEF_UNIT_JOT_WORKER</EarlyArtDefineTag>
				</UnitMeshGroup>
			</UnitMeshGroups>
			<FormationType>FORMATION_TYPE_DEFAULT</FormationType>
			<FreePromotions>
				<FreePromotion>
					<PromotionType>PROMOTION_JOT_GIANTKIN</PromotionType>
					<bFreePromotion>1</bFreePromotion>
				</FreePromotion>
			</FreePromotions>
			<bFreeXP>1</bFreeXP>
			<iCombatDefense>4</iCombatDefense>
			<iMinLevel>1</iMinLevel>
			<iTier>1</iTier>
		</UnitInfo>
 
tesb said:
@graywarden do you mean this unit:

Spoiler :
Code: 
<UnitInfo> 		<!-- Jotnar Worker -->
			<Class>UNITCLASS_WORKER</Class>
			<Type>UNIT_JOT_WORKER</Type>
			<Capture>UNITCLASS_WORKER</Capture>
			<Combat>NONE</Combat>
			<DefaultUnitAI>UNITAI_WORKER</DefaultUnitAI>
			<Description>TXT_KEY_UNIT_JOT_WORKER</Description>
			<Civilopedia>TXT_KEY_UNIT_JOT_WORKER_PEDIA</Civilopedia>
			<Strategy>TXT_KEY_UNIT_JOT_WORKER_STRATEGY</Strategy>
			<Help>TXT_KEY_UNIT_JOT_WORKER_HELP</Help>
			<Advisor>ADVISOR_ECONOMY</Advisor>
			<bFood>1</bFood>
			<UnitAIs>
				<UnitAI>
					<UnitAIType>UNITAI_WORKER</UnitAIType>
					<bUnitAI>1</bUnitAI>
				</UnitAI>
			</UnitAIs>
			<Builds>
				<Build>
					<BuildType>BUILD_ROAD</BuildType>
					<bBuild>1</bBuild>
				</Build>
				<Build>
					<BuildType>BUILD_FARM</BuildType>
					<bBuild>1</bBuild>
				</Build>
				<Build>
					<BuildType>BUILD_MINE</BuildType>
					<bBuild>1</bBuild>
				</Build>
				<Build>
					<BuildType>BUILD_WORKSHOP</BuildType>
					<bBuild>1</bBuild>
				</Build>
				<Build>
					<BuildType>BUILD_LUMBERMILL</BuildType>
					<bBuild>1</bBuild>
				</Build>
				<Build>
					<BuildType>BUILD_WINDMILL</BuildType>
					<bBuild>1</bBuild>
				</Build>
				<Build>
					<BuildType>BUILD_PLANTATION</BuildType>
					<bBuild>1</bBuild>
				</Build>
				<Build>
					<BuildType>BUILD_QUARRY</BuildType>
					<bBuild>1</bBuild>
				</Build>
				<Build>
					<BuildType>BUILD_PASTURE</BuildType>
					<bBuild>1</bBuild>
				</Build>
				<Build>
					<BuildType>BUILD_CAMP</BuildType>
					<bBuild>1</bBuild>
				</Build>
				<Build>
					<BuildType>BUILD_WINERY</BuildType>
					<bBuild>1</bBuild>
				</Build>
				<Build>
					<BuildType>BUILD_COTTAGE</BuildType>
					<bBuild>1</bBuild>
				</Build>
				<Build>
					<BuildType>BUILD_FORT</BuildType>
					<bBuild>1</bBuild>
				</Build>
				<Build>
					<BuildType>BUILD_REMOVE_JUNGLE</BuildType>
					<bBuild>1</bBuild>
				</Build>
				<Build>
					<BuildType>BUILD_REMOVE_FOREST</BuildType>
					<bBuild>1</bBuild>
				</Build>
			</Builds>
			<PrereqTech>NONE</PrereqTech>
			<iCost>120</iCost>
			<iAdvancedStartCost>100</iAdvancedStartCost>
			<iMoves>2</iMoves>
			<iWorkRate>120</iWorkRate>
			<iCombat>2</iCombat>
			<iXPValueAttack>8</iXPValueAttack>
			<iXPValueDefense>4</iXPValueDefense>
			<iBombardRate>20</iBombardRate>
			<iAsset>1</iAsset>
			<iPower>0</iPower>
			<UnitMeshGroups>
				<iGroupSize>1</iGroupSize>
				<fMaxSpeed>1.75</fMaxSpeed>
				<fPadTime>1</fPadTime>
				<iMeleeWaveSize>2</iMeleeWaveSize>
				<iRangedWaveSize>0</iRangedWaveSize>
				<UnitMeshGroup>
					<iRequired>2</iRequired>
					<EarlyArtDefineTag>ART_DEF_UNIT_JOT_WORKER</EarlyArtDefineTag>
				</UnitMeshGroup>
			</UnitMeshGroups>
			<FormationType>FORMATION_TYPE_DEFAULT</FormationType>
			<FreePromotions>
				<FreePromotion>
					<PromotionType>PROMOTION_JOT_GIANTKIN</PromotionType>
					<bFreePromotion>1</bFreePromotion>
				</FreePromotion>
			</FreePromotions>
			<bFreeXP>1</bFreeXP>
			<iCombatDefense>4</iCombatDefense>
			<iMinLevel>1</iMinLevel>
			<iTier>1</iTier>
		</UnitInfo>
Click to expand...

Yes that is correct, sorry i wasnt more specific
 
open up the JOTNAR_CIV4CivilizationInfos.xml and search for:
Code: 
<Unit>
						<UnitClassType>UNITCLASS_WORKER</UnitClassType>
						<UnitType>NONE</UnitType>
				</Unit>

and replace the NONE with UNIT_JOT_WORKER
if you changed the unitclass of the jotnar worker you should revert it back to unitclass worker, although making a new entry in the civilizations infos xml works too.

edit: i just read this threads page for the first time and god-emperor already said this, but it should work. please report back if you still have problems.
 
tesb said:
open up the JOTNAR_CIV4CivilizationInfos.xml and search for:
Code: 
<Unit>
						<UnitClassType>UNITCLASS_WORKER</UnitClassType>
						<UnitType>NONE</UnitType>
				</Unit>

and replace the NONE with UNIT_JOT_WORKER
if you changed the unitclass of the jotnar worker you should revert it back to unitclass worker, although making a new entry in the civilizations infos xml works too.

edit: i just read this threads page for the first time and god-emperor already said this, but it should work. please report back if you still have problems.
Click to expand...

Tesb,

yes that was the trick. i missed his suggestion for fixing this in particular (sorry GE), i had been able to fix the other problems per his suggestions as posted.

so thats the third file to look for, i hope i can remember next time i run into this problem.

thanks again to both of you. :goodjob:

@ breadsmith and others, the inclusions or removals of units or other items is Sephi's domain. Once he has a chance to catch up on the threads, he will make a statement as to one way or another. but keep the thoughts and comments coming.
 
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