The map generator?

[Dreadnaught]

I was wondering if the map generator in CivIII would be as simple as CivII.

The reason I complain is because I was sick and tried of having all random maps look the same. They said there would be continents, but you get small groups of land masses liked together by small strips of land, that creates huge horizontal landmasses that make sailing the seas impossible.

There were no large oceans that had stategic significance. I mean look at our world? The pacific and Atlantic had temendous stategic importance, but you don't see any maps with that same sort of bablnce.

The terrian was bad in CivII also, on our planet there are places with nothing but jungles, or nothing but forests. You never see large woodlands or huge jungles in CivII generations. Its always a few types or terrian randomly stuck in an area according to the climate and tempeture specifications.
Like if you wanted it warm and dry, your map is desert and plains, with some mountians and..hold on swamps, where'd they come from?

So my question remains, is the map generator going to be smarter?

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"It is well that war is so terrible-we should grow too fond of it."
-Gen. Robert E. Lee, 1863

 

[BlueMonday]

I would assume that because resources will be concentrated in regional areas, the map generator in Civ 3 would be somewhat more complex than that seen in civ 2. However, I don't know if that will spill over into the generation of other terrain types.

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[Magnus]

I rememebr reading something from Firaxis recently saying they just got their hands on a new map generator that they really liked - we can always hope we like it as much.

When I play Civ2, I generally use pregenerated maps because the random maps always disappoints me.

 

[stormerne]

Perhaps I'm in the minority, but I like the random map generator in Civ2. I seem to get some variation according to what I ask for. On the other hand, maybe they tweaked it for my edition (2.7.8 Fantastic Worlds). You can certainly get the large jungle/desert/mountain area effects on mine by setting the earth's age to 3 billion years.

But there is still plenty of room for improvement. Perhaps the new CIV3 map generator will simulate to some extent the effects of the geological forces that have shaped our own planet. We'll see!

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[goodbye_mr_bond]

I've never really *hated* the map generator in Civ II either--though I also have FW too which lends some weight to Stormene's theory. There is definitely room for improvement though.

You know, if they modeled something that took into account how scientists have predicted continental drift, then that might make it more realistic.

Say the generator starts by simulating one large contiguous landmass, dissected by a few random fault lines. THen it randomly assigns a direction of drift to each plate and follows it through, creating mountain ranges where two plates drift together, breakaway landmasses that have a certain elegant and logical shape to them, etc.

This would even make it very easy to include the 'natural disasters' events others have suggested. If the computer has already calculated fault lines, then risk of volcanic eruptions and earthquakes should be easy--and most importantly, logical.

 

[Mongol Horde]

I always thought that the map generation was a bit unrealistic, after all the amazon area of earth would be about 20 squares of jungle. The problem is that you need some viable city starting locations. There were plenty of inca cities in the jungle but with the current system in civII it would be unfeasable to start a city in such a place. So what I guess I'm trying to say is that for more realistic terrains you would need to tinker with the rules. I see three ways that you would be able to achieve that:

Making settlers quicker at transforming terrain

Making terrain types more fruitful

Giving some kind of food bonus to starter cities eg let three sqaures get an extra food icon.

 

[Dreadnaught]

by Mongol Horde
The problem is that you need some viable city starting locations. There were plenty of inca cities in the jungle but with the current system in civII it would be unfeasable to start a city in such a place. So what I guess I'm trying to say is that for more realistic terrains you would need to tinker with the rules.

Well I think that the computer should be smart enough to find areas where civ's will prosper. The Inca were famous people, but they were by no means a large civilazation. Well let me clarify. They had a lot of people but they were all spread out in small villages that could be supported by the surrounding jungle. Whereas any true nation with large cities (U.S. Russia, France etc..) has huge crops of farmland to support them. So Incan argument doesn't really fit, but that only works to further your argument.

Anyway it shoud be easy enough to have starting positions have the right specifications. Also I really like your idea goodbye_mr_bond.

Say the generator starts by simulating one large contiguous landmass, dissected by a few random fault lines. THen it randomly assigns a direction of drift to each plate and follows it through, creating mountain ranges where two plates drift together, breakaway landmasses that have a certain elegant and logical shape to them, etc.

This would even make it very easy to include the 'natural disasters' events others have suggested. If the computer has already calculated fault lines, then risk of volcanic eruptions and earthquakes should be easy--and most importantly, logical.

This would probably work very well, anyway Mangus said the found one they liked so lets hope its a good one!


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"It is well that war is so terrible-we should grow too fond of it."
-Gen. Robert E. Lee, 1863

 

[walkergrae]

The old "Seven Cities of Gold" game used some sort of tectonic modelling for generating random maps of the new world and worked fairly well and that more than ten years ago.

The Civ II map generator does a nice job once in a while but the "super string" continents that span the entire world can be annoying. Nothing like having 90% percent of the land mass tied to a single continent averaging two or three squares in width and sprawling across the entire globe like a strand of spaghetti.

 

[EntirelyBS]

the part I didn't like about the random generations of maps was the times that there would be huge continents and small islands, and I'd invariably get stuck on the small island.

 

[BorderPatrol]

Originally posted by EBS:

the part I didn't like about the random generations of maps was the times that there would be huge continents and small islands, and I'd invariably get stuck on the small island.

Don't worry about stuff like that. I have total faith in Firaxis that they are fixing those little bugs.

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[This message has been edited by BorderPatrol (edited June 06, 2001).]

 

[stormerne]

Originally posted by EntirelyBS:
the part I didn't like about the random generations of maps was the times that there would be huge continents and small islands, and I'd invariably get stuck on the small island.

This is called "challenge"! Time to build the Lighthouse and Magellan... or restart!

 

[Dreadnaught]

I just check out the maps on the world map view on some of those new pics. It seems that what i asked for came true. The maps are very well balanced.

Phew what a relief!!

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"What counts is not necessarily the size of the dog in the fight - it's the the size of the fight in the dog."
- Gen. Dwight D. Eisenhower

 

[thedirk]

I too have found the Civ II random maps to be somewhat lacking. I usually play premade maps as a result. However, I like the challenge of a random map, in that it is truly exploring. Playing a map of Earth, I already know where land will be etc...

It would be nice to see more variables in the custom map function. Perhaps a 5 point scale rather than a 3 point scale, to enable more diversity.

 

[RouTaran]

Originally posted by walkergrae:
The old "Seven Cities of Gold" game...

sorry for going off topic but does anyone know where i can find this game? i been looking for it for the past 5 years or so!

Originally posted by EntirelyBS:
the part I didn't like about the random generations of maps was the times that there would be huge continents and small islands, and I'd invariably get stuck on the small island.

personally, i like the isolationist game, let the comp get big and powerful, then crush em hehehe

[This message has been edited by RouTaran (edited August 03, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by RouTaran (edited August 03, 2001).]

 

[Matrix]

I recognize your problem, Dreadnaught! I too find it sometimes boring or even irritating that all the maps are so extremely complex.

But I remember that the terrain editor (read: map maker) of Sim City had a funny value to set: complexity. The lower this setting, the simpler the map. Perhaps that's what we need.

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[NiceGuy]

It will be interesting to see if they can give us a good reason to have non-costal cities. In Civ II there was never a thick enough land mass to build a city that didn't touch the coastline, or on the rare occassions when there was, the middle section was mostly mountains.

I've seen some fair terrain grouping playing Civ II Multiplayer Gold. I actually working on a game right now where one of the islands (med sized) is almost completely forests. Annoying for development purposes.

I'd like to see good grouping in Civ III, but also some diversity, which requires bigger landmasses, which they seem to be trying for. (I seem to remember Alpha Centauri having some good sized land masses...) Another couple of months and we'll get to discuss whether or not we're happy with what we got! Woo Hoo!!

 

[Father Time]

If the map generator has been revamped, that's very good.

No matter how 'random' the map, it usually ends up as a chain of somewhat small islands, or a few thin pieces of land.

 

[Squirrel]

I have read several articles where Firaxis have been boasting about their new "continent generator."

This link shows a map with two major continents. Between them a huge ocean with some small islands. Looks good to me.

 

[Vrylakas]

While it's true it can be unrealistic sometimes, I prefer the map generator in Civ II. I like the element of exploration in the game, in having to figure out land mass and sea routes. Yes, I hate the long stringy continents but I've gotten over them.

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[Becka]

The map generator of CivII: my greatest excuse for using a map of Earth.

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"You know what I pray for? I pray for the power to change what I can, the inability to accept what I can't, the in incapacity to tell the difference."
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