[TOT] The Test Of Time Patch Project

[Arthedain]

It's easy to see that a project at this magnitude has awaken some of the civ2 legends again. Great job TheNamelessOne! Keep up the good work. I myself will return when we're able to choose more civs...

 

[Grishnach]

Thanks again for the cool updates! I finally got around to test the new (and not-so-new) features, and of course ran right into problems. I can't get the extra terrains to work, probably because I'm forgetting some delimiter ...

In any case I get an error message "Error "-4" in module "3" data 11:0" as soon as I enter more than 11 terrains.
I added at the end of the @COSMIC2 section:
NumberOfTerrainTypes, 12, 11, 11, 11

Then I copied the @TERRAIN line of ocean and pasted it below:
Ocean, 1,2, 1,0,2, no, 0, 0, 0, no, 0, 0, 0, no, no, ; Oce
Ocean, 1,2, 1,0,2, no, 0, 0, 0, no, 0, 0, 0, no, no, ; Oce

Same with the specials:
Fish, 1,2, 3,0,2,
Special_1_1, 1,2, 3,1,0,

Whales, 1,2, 2,2,3,
Special_1_2, 1,2, 3,1,0,

Is there anything wrong with the lines? I tried several iterations but none work.

I also edited the terrain files but that does not seem to be the problem. The game loads with the edited 16-terr bmp files if I specify 11 terrains (of course some weird graphics stuff), so I don't see how there could be a problem with 12 (like, trying to load and running into the end of file or something).

I'd be very grateful for any hints or tips!

An idea for a feature: the ability to cheat in multiples of a single wonder would be handy for scenario design (e.g. each civilization having their own Leonardo's).

That would indeed be a very cool idea, but I'm afraid that simply won't work with the mechanics. After all wonders are saved like "wonder - location", and not the other way round like a normal building.

Perhaps there's a way to add an "RemoveImprovement" action to complement the "BestowImprovement" one? (which I have not used until now however so I don't know if that could actually be used to simulate some kind of similar effect)

 

[Greizer85]

Question: can the 'can sail on rivers' flag be extended to other, actual terrain types? It'd be nice to have a lake terrain with different graphics for my world map (and other maps). Since you can't easily have two different 'regular water' terrains (as you explained some pages back), if the flag could be extended so that a 'lake' terrain can be made on which both land units and ships can move, it'd serve this purpose pretty well (regarding the 'Jesus-y' land units, you could suspend disbelief and think they're 'sailing' in small boats or somesuch ).

This could have other uses in e.g. space scenarios, with e.g. asteroid fields traversible to certain ship-types only, etc. It's a minor request, and I'll manage with regular 'ocean-lakes', but I thought I'd throw it out there.

EDIT: ... Couldn't you already do this for mountains? In that case it should be simple to extend the flag to other terrains as well. ... Or did you already do that, too? I should try reading the thread instead of barging in to post suggestions every two months or so, but I guess such character flaws can't be helped.

 

[Catfish]

I noticed that on the excellent world map that you posted in my map thread on the Scenario League forum, you'd somehow enlargened the map dimensions far beyond what is normally allowed by the map editor, or even MapEdit, which I use for externally editing my maps.

That map will load in MapEdit. It's 24780 tiles. The maximum is 32767. As for the map editor, see post #27.

I can't get the extra terrains to work, probably because I'm forgetting some delimiter ... Is there anything wrong with the lines? I tried several iterations but none work.

I've had extra terrains working since they were introduced. Those lines are fine; I even substituted them into my working game without error. I can generate a similar error message in @CIVILIZE if I have no clear line between that section and @COSMIC2, which is placed below @COSMIC in my rules file. Check that you've got at least one blank line between the sections; comments (semi-colons) don't count. [Edit: Post your rules file if you can't resolve it.]

 

[Greizer85]

That map will load in MapEdit. It's 24780 tiles. The maximum is 32767. As for the map editor, see post #27.

For me it says "Global Wide.mp is not a valid CivilizationII map", and then closes. Are there multiple versions of MapEdit? Perhaps I have the wrong one?

Post #27 was ages ago, but I'm shocked not to remember why I didn't use that editor... I'll have to reinstall ToT and see if it works or if I had some problem with it. Thanks for the help in any case.

 

[Catfish]

For me it says "Global Wide.mp is not a valid CivilizationII map", and then closes. Are there multiple versions of MapEdit? Perhaps I have the wrong one?

I've got version 2.1 (build 240) and it has no problem loading that map. A corrupt map file is a possibility; try re-downloading it.

 

[Metro Polis]

I somehow returned to Warlords 1 the last few days and this has given me some new ideas. I would love to see some of these features:

-a 'raze city' order (remembers me of the good old Warlords 1 days). It can cost money though (e.g. the amount of money a conquerer would get)
-A team victory option could be great, too (a third option, for now we only have the spaceship and world domination winning conditions).
-much more units. I mean... many are good ... more are better!
-flags for the computer leaders if they should always keep their word and stick to treaties or not. Would be nice for some scenarios, I think. Maybe then I would present gifts much more often.

And: Can't you simply make them not entering your cities' zones of control if you are at peace with them?

 

[Greizer85]

And: Can't you simple make them not entering your cities' zones of control if you are at peace with them?

Omg OMG yes yes YES!!!1 This is most important... Nothing is as annoying as the AI constantly parading its troops in your territory, to absolutely no purpose at all (unless to purposely annoy you, which would make the programmers of Civ II some of the most evil people who ever lived).

Even better would be Alpha Centauri -like borders, but I suppose there's *some* limits to what is doable. The lack of real borders was always one of my pet gripes with Civ II; no matter how it gets solved, it's a dream come true really.

@Catfish: As I suspected, there is a problem with the editor. Namely, it won't start at all. I didn't install ToTPP yet, but I don't think that can be the problem... I first tried the editor with the unpatched game, then when I had patched to 1.1. Tried compatibility modes, but no response at all. There isn't even an error message, a flash on the screen or anything at all. Could it be Windows 7 that's the culprit? I find that Windows 8 is cancer on most old games, and 7 is only a little better.

I'll try that MapEdit that you posted, then update the result to this msg.
EDIT: I did it and now I get the message:

Component 'MSCOMCT2.OCX' or one of its dependencies is not correctly registered: a file is missing or invalid

So... Uh-oh?
EDIT2: Ah, nevermind. I installed the 'clean' 2.1 version instead of the patch (I must've had 1.0 or something), and now it works perfectly. I can now modify the map size with Map Edit and then use the MGE Map Editor to actually make the map, so if the problem with the ToT Map Editor doesn't get resolved, it's no biggie. If you can guess what the hiccup is, all the better of course.

 

[Grishnach]

I've had extra terrains working since they were introduced. Those lines are fine; I even substituted them into my working game without error. I can generate a similar error message in @CIVILIZE if I have no clear line between that section and @COSMIC2, which is placed below @COSMIC in my rules file. Check that you've got at least one blank line between the sections; comments (semi-colons) don't count. [Edit: Post your rules file if you can't resolve it.]

Thanks for the hint! Problem persists though ... I tried to start from scratch, using first the ToT Fantasy rules as a base, the the ToT Orginial, and finally the rules from your WotR scenario.
I attached the last one here - if you can find something I'd be very grateful.

I'm using the version 9.1 of ToTPP on the german version of ToT 1.1. ToTPP patch worked flawlessly and the other features are fine too as far as I have seen.

 

[Greizer85]

Yet another question/suggestion:

Is there a way to increase the number of starting locations on a map? I noticed that I can place 21 different Civ locations on my world map; it'd be nice to have 40 or so, given the size of the map. If it can be done at present, then which file is it that controls this? If it can't be done, can it be made so? I'd have to add the cities and leaders for those new civs, of course; but even with my limited skills, that should be doable. I could just copy their attitudes, responses etc. from existing Civs after all.

This does have the effect of making my map into a mod of sorts... But the extra terrains etc. will already do that, so it's not that bad. I'd prefer it if my map was just a map that can be played with other 'mods', though.

 

[Catfish]

@Catfish: As I suspected, there is a problem with the editor. Namely, it won't start at all. I didn't install ToTPP yet, but I don't think that can be the problem... I first tried the editor with the unpatched game, then when I had patched to 1.1. Tried compatibility modes, but no response at all. There isn't even an error message, a flash on the screen or anything at all. Could it be Windows 7 that's the culprit? I find that Windows 8 is cancer on most old games, and 7 is only a little better.

Mercator's ToT map editor is simply the MGE version modified to work with ToT game files and permit the creation of larger (>10000 tiles) maps. Remember, ToT has no map editor, so the official ToT 1.1 patch and the ToTPP don't touch it (although, it is dependent on a few ToT files). I have Win7 64-bit. Both map editors run on my machine. The 'ToT' map editor should be inside your main ToT folder. Was ToT already running when you launched the map editor? If so, close it. Both versions of the editor can load large maps, so if you can run the unmodified MGE version, then no problem.

Is there a way to increase the number of starting locations on a map?

It's hard-coded.

I attached the last one here - if you can find something I'd be very grateful.

That rules file generates Error "-7" in module "3" data:11 0, but it's missing the extra @TERRAIN lines, so I can't tell exactly what went wrong when you added them. When I added an extra terrain type, the game loaded correctly. I've attached a 12-terrain rules file that works without error on my WotR setup. If you get further error messages, see this thread, download TheNamelessOne's errors.zip and place its DLLs in your scenario folder. Or try DebugView (post #8 of that thread); that'll give more detailed info about these types of crashes.

 

[Greizer85]

Mercator's ToT map editor is simply the MGE version modified to work with ToT game files and permit the creation of larger (>10000 tiles) maps. Remember, ToT has no map editor, so the official ToT 1.1 patch and the ToTPP don't touch it (although, it is dependent on a few ToT files). I have Win7 64-bit. Both map editors run on my machine. The 'ToT' map editor should be inside your main ToT folder. Was ToT already running when you launched the map editor? If so, close it. Both versions of the editor can load large maps, so if you can run the unmodified MGE version, then no problem.

ToT wasn't running when I tried to start the editor. It is in the ToT folder ofc. It could be some problem that's unique to my pc... This piece of junk has caused me more headaches than I can remember (due to all the headaches, heh). Anyway the MGE editor works fine, so no problem.

It's hard-coded.

Aww. I guess you can't have everything, even with the miracles TheNamelessOne is working. I'll have to be careful about which civs I pick then. In a way such limitations are a richness, but I'd still rather have the 40 civs.

I'm having a hard time with the new terrains and resources as well. Should I use some of them for different 'looks' in different climates, á la Civ V? Snowy hills for the icy areas are particularly intriguing; the default green blobs stick out like very sore thumbs in that environment! But it could mean one type of desert instead of two; or only salt instead of salt and pepper. Decisions, decisions! Anyway I'm just getting started, so by the time I get to placing resources, I'm sure there'll be a way to add a limitless amount of them.

EDIT: Given my limited graphical skills, I'll have to 'scavenge' most resource/terrain icons from existing mods/scenarios. I downloaded almost every scenario on this site and deleted all but the relevant files from their folders; only after this stroke of genius did it hit me that this makes it very hard to track down who's made what, so as to give credit where it's due. I hope it's not frowned upon too much if I fail to mention the name of every creator? It seemed to me that many scenarios already used the same practice; the 'best' graphics were used in dozens of scenarios. Most of the graphics were probably originally made by a few modders with the appropriate skills/patience, such as yourself. Anyway I just wanted to make sure that it's ok to do this. If someone recognizes their work included in my 'mod', then I'll add their name to the Readme ofc.

EDIT2: If the Forest/Hill/Mountain terrains can be 'unlocked', too, so that more slots may be added, then things like fjords, coral reefs and mangrove swamps become possible, vastly enhancing the look of the map. *fingers crossed*

EDIT3: ... Overflow for science/shields maybe? (I'm not getting my hopes up, but it'd be extra awesome. Nothing is more annoying than producing 79 shields per turn and having to wait 2 turns to build a tank. Well -- AIs shuffling troops in your territory is more annoying. But it's a close race. )

 

[Grishnach]

That rules file generates Error "-7" in module "3" data:11 0, but it's missing the extra @TERRAIN lines, so I can't tell exactly what went wrong when you added them. When I added an extra terrain type, the game loaded correctly. I've attached a 12-terrain rules file that works without error on my WotR setup. If you get further error messages, see this thread, download TheNamelessOne's errors.zip and place its DLLs in your scenario folder. Or try DebugView (post #8 of that thread); that'll give more detailed info about these types of crashes.

Thanks a lot! That works - don't know what went wrong before (and why I uploaded the wrong file for that matter ...). I'll try to port my rules into that file - guess I'll bump into some mistake in some different section which triggered the problem.

EDIT: Ha! I think I got it: Problem was the @TRANSFORM Section! I had not added additional lines there, so for 16 terrains only 11 transform specs existed. If I add five lines there as well everything loads fine.
Thanks again for the help!

 

[TheNamelessOne]

When you start making a mine on a Hill tile (possibly also other improvements, but at least it works with Mines), then tell another Settler to make a city on that same tile, [...] then once the Mine is finished, the city tile will have +2 extra Shields

Yes, settler orders should be reevaluated every turn to see whether the order is still valid or not.

Perhaps there's a way to add an "RemoveImprovement" action to complement the "BestowImprovement" one? (which I have not used until now however so I don't know if that could actually be used to simulate some kind of similar effect)

Maybe it could be added as a parameter to BestowImprovement. But BestowImprovement is pretty limited, since you can't target specific cities, except capitals.

-a 'raze city' order (remembers me of the good old Warlords 1 days). It can cost money though (e.g. the amount of money a conquerer would get)

As an alternative, the city could lose one pop every turn till it's destroyed - basically the Civ5 way?

-much more units. I mean... many are good ... more are better!

This one's pretty high on my list right now.

EDIT2: If the Forest/Hill/Mountain terrains can be 'unlocked', too, so that more slots may be added, then things like fjords, coral reefs and mangrove swamps become possible, vastly enhancing the look of the map. *fingers crossed*

You know about the overlay patch, right? Or do you mean something different by 'unlocking'?

EDIT3: ... Overflow for science/shields maybe? (I'm not getting my hopes up, but it'd be extra awesome. Nothing is more annoying than producing 79 shields per turn and having to wait 2 turns to build a tank.

Technically this is actually quite easy, just remove the code where the number of shields is set to 0 after production is complete. It might make a little less sense for improvements though, since you can only build one each, and you need to change production after completion.

 

[Greizer85]

You know about the overlay patch, right? Or do you mean something different by 'unlocking'?

... Um. That's what you get by not visiting here for weeks I guess. So I hoped for something that's already done. How do you make this work, though? Just by inserting extra rows of terrain in Terrain2.bmp? How about actually putting them on the map, though? I can't use the ToT map editor since it won't even start for me... And anyway I doubt the extra buttons for the overlays would just appear in the editor. And they're not resources either, so the Ctrl+1/2 trick won't do it. Some instructions would be nice here. Also, two further questions regarding this:

1. Do the overlays take up a 'resource spot' or not? I remember you saying that they do, but it was quite some time ago, and it gives me hope that you spoke of 'arbtritary terrains', which brings me to...
2. ... by 'arbitrary terrains', do you mean that any overlay can be placed over any terrain? That'd be sweet indeed. ... I guess there's a third question then:
3. By 'overlay', do you mean that it works like with rivers, so that both the underlying terrain and the new overlay affect the final output of the tile? Or is it like with Forest, Mountains and Hills, in that the effect of the overlay supercedes that of the underlying terrain? I guess I could just test it, but as I said I don't know how yet.

Whatever the answers to these questions, the feature will be immensely useful, if not for me then for other, actual modders. Much kudos for it.

EDIT: 4. Please please please tell me that the new overlays can be placed independent of their 'orientation' with regards to other similar tiles. This would mean in effect 5 x 16 = 80 new terrain types... Or something like ~40 even assuming that you'd make a few terrains that actually used the orientation (new Hill types, etc).

Technically this is actually quite easy, just remove the code where the number of shields is set to 0 after production is complete. It might make a little less sense for improvements though, since you can only build one each, and you need to change production after completion.

Sweet! So do you mean the extra shields would still be lost after building completion, or that they would go towards the next building (or unit or wonder)? If it's the latter, then imo it's no problem, as that's how it works in Civ V. You can think of it as leftover materials going towards the next project, so it's not at all unrealistic (imo). If otoh the shields would be lost due to some mechanical limitation that affects buildings only, then it's no biggie either. Any benefit is better than no benefit, and anyway this is mostly noticeable with units, since buildings have varying shield costs and therefore you don't notice as much if you're a few shields short of some particular number. Only obsessive micromanagers will, well, obsess over it, and they live for their obsessions, so it's ok in the final end.

EDIT: How about for science btw? Is it harder to accomplish? One concern is that it might lead to some new exploit(s), while eliminating the old one (manipulating science rate so that you only *just* get a new tech). (Some people might not term this an exploit but rather a clever micromanagement... The terminology is pointless though, since it's ultimately a tedium-inducing, automatic process, once you figure out how to do it. There's no strategy involved beyond realizing the inital concept, so it belongs in the historical dustbin imo.)

EDIT2: Could you make the city tile yields customizable? Perhaps per terrain type, or if that's not possible, then a single value that's applied regardless of the underlying terrain. Atm it hardly makes sense to settle on Mountains, as you only get 1 food from them. Presumably the food is not grown at the actual city site, but is brought in from the surrounding countryside. It could be argued that the city tile represents a large enough area that it takes this into account, but I'd still like the option to homogenize city tile yields across the board (perhaps excluding +1 commerce from River, but that's a minor inconvenience).

 

[TheNamelessOne]

By 'overlay', do you mean that it works like with rivers, so that both the underlying terrain and the new overlay affect the final output of the tile? Or is it like with Forest, Mountains and Hills, in that the effect of the overlay supercedes that of the underlying terrain? I guess I could just test it, but as I said I don't know how yet.

The overlays work like the forest, mountain and hill overlays. They're only used for improved visuals and have no effect on tile yields or resources whatsoever. For examples, see Catfish' graphics mod packs here.

Sweet! So do you mean the extra shields would still be lost after building completion, or that they would go towards the next building (or unit or wonder)? If it's the latter, then imo it's no problem, as that's how it works in Civ V.

They carry over to the next production order. I've also made it configurable per production type (unit, improvement, wonder).

EDIT: How about for science btw? Is it harder to accomplish?

Haven't looked into it yet, but I suspect it is equally simple.

EDIT2: Could you make the city tile yields customizable?

I already have a patch to add bonus yields to city tiles, I could make this more configurable I guess.

 

[Greizer85]

The overlays work like the forest, mountain and hill overlays. They're only used for improved visuals and have no effect on tile yields or resources whatsoever. For examples, see Catfish' graphics mod packs here.

... Am I missing something? I installed Catfish's mod and tried placing some Jungle on the default world map via the 'cheat' command. However, both 'Desert Jungle' crazyeye and 'Grassland Jungle' had the same exact yield (1 food and nothing else). Did Catfish make some further modification, or is the overlay not functioning correctly? Imo it would be better if it imposed its own yield, or added to the underlying yield, rather than being just visual eye candy. So... Don't make it work correctly I guess? Or make it configurable, if it's possible. I'll work around it either way, and it's fantabulous to have this, but the more options the better.

Also, is there a way to place the overlays apart from the 'cheat' command? I guess for me there might not be, since the ToT map editor refuses to work for me... But it'd be nice to know in case the editor happens to work on my new computer that I'll be getting sometime in January. There might be something like 4,000 overlay tiles on my map, and I'd rather not click three times(?) for all of them. But I will ofc if them's the breaks (they don't call us fanatics for nothing!).

EDIT: Wait a minute -- I took a look at Terrain1.bmp, and it seems that the underlying terrain for Jungle is still specified there? It's just plain 'grass' squares, but it means that this 'underlay' takes up a terrain slot as well... Meaning that (if I'm correct), you've used two slots in order to achieve a varying look for Jungle, similar to Hills and Mountains, etc. I'm not sure if that's a worthy sacrifice, with only 5 new terrain types available.
EDIT2: Also, the stats of the Jungle now become entirely logical, since they're taken from the underlying 'Jungle underlay' terrain, which has a yield of 1 food. It's still not clear to me how to achieve the effect of placing Jungle over any terrain and copying its yield (or, ideally, imposing the yield of the overlay terrain, without need for a specific new underlay).

They carry over to the next production order. I've also made it configurable per production type (unit, improvement, wonder).

Wonderful (pun intended I guess ). I wonder (sorry!) why the original creators made it this way to begin with, since it's so easy to change to a vastly better mechanic? I guess the world just wasn't ready for overflow in 1996.

Haven't looked into it yet, but I suspect it is equally simple.

*fingers crossed* (we need a smiley like that, pronto!)

I already have a patch to add bonus yields to city tiles, I could make this more configurable I guess.

Cool, and by cool, I mean totally sweet.

Btw, speaking of all things cool, did you catch Metro Polis's post about keeping the AIs off your territory when you're at peace with them? Imo it's a crucial feature for long-term enjoyment of the re-born Civ II (I think that's a fair assessment; you're single-handedly raising this game from the dead, or at least bringing it back from the edge of the grave).

 

[Catfish]

ToT wasn't running when I tried to start the editor. It is in the ToT folder ofc. It could be some problem that's unique to my pc... This piece of junk has caused me more headaches than I can remember

It's not that different from the MGE map editor. My next port of call would be system security, eg, UAC, HIPS, anti-virus/malware. Did you install ToT in the Program Files folder?

Ha! I think I got it: Problem was the @TRANSFORM Section! I had not added additional lines there, so for 16 terrains only 11 transform specs existed. If I add five lines there as well everything loads fine.

... Am I missing something?

I believe so. Overlays serve a purely aesthetic purpose. As TNO said, they function the same way as forest, hills and mountains, which, in non-ToTPP Civ2, are essentially hard-coded graphical overlays. They do not affect game mechanics. If you wish to change the terrain stats, then edit them under @TERRAIN in rules.txt. With the ToTPP, you now have 16 terrain slots at your disposal. The Original game graphics mod is exactly what it says. In other words, it's pure vanilla Civ2 game mechanics with the original 11 terrain types. There is no 'Desert Jungle' or 'Grassland Jungle', only jungle.

 

[techumseh]

Here's an odd question for you TNO. It's possible to place a unit from another civ in a city, using the cheat menu. The unit may move out of the city, or be sentried or fortified in it, but it can't move back into the city. My question is whether or not it would be possible to utilize ToTPP to enable the use of air transport between two cities with airports, but of different civs. Could it be done?

The context is from the Burma Campaign scenario I'm working on, to simulate the "Hump" - the allied airlift to China over the Himalayas. I wish to transport a supply unit from a British city in India to a Chinese city. Thanks for your consideration.

 

[PlutonianEmpire]

I agree. Basically an expansion of the airlift feature. And since it's airlifting, it could still be shot down by any enemies the player(s) might be at war with.