The Vox Populi Challenge No. 5 - Power through Trade

[Grabbl]

Dear friends of Vox Populi!

The submission date has passed, don't miss the next challenge and scroll down for the results!

The last challenge has not ended yet, but since the new version is out for a few days already, be excited for the new one already! No matter if you know what's expecting you or not, keep on reading and dive into a beautiful Vox Populi game for another time.


​

I know that it's hard to believe nowadays, but can you imagine that trade once was an instrument not only to gain money, but to do politics, gain power an influence as well? For the upcoming Vox Populi challenge, dive into the prime example of a trade empire: The Republic of Venice. As the powerful doge Enrico Dandolo, build an international trade network of incomparable size - and if this doesn't work, simply invade the inferior people that dare to resist to your not-so-soft power. Before doing anything else, make sure that you have version 8-6-2 of Vox Populi installed (that is, including the second hotfix for this version, and all possible future hotfixes).

As the main link in the version thread still goes to version 8-6-1, allow me to point to the more recent version:
https://mega.nz/#!jRtnjKSb!RM5sdLhz3SN42MxC-lz-17N5NT6BjVzDf78qHlUA8E8

Before we go into details, please make sure you know the rules. Especially, don't share ingame information unspoilered, not even the number of points you achieved. I don't want anyone to be discouraged by your large amount of great works, or to know prior to his game what number he has to beat. In spoilers, you are very welcome to describe your game, of course

Spoiler Game Rules :

1) The Golden Rule: Don't replay, don't reload, send in your first try! It is recommended to set your auto-save frequency to 1 turn for this game. If you have a crash that forces you to replay, write it in the mail afterwards and try replaying as closest as possible to what you did before the crash.

2) Don't exploit any bugs you may find. At the moment, I'm not aware of any exploitable bugs, but just in case, don't overuse obviously bugged mechanics (like the infinite tribute-bug a few patches ago).

3) Don't share ingame-information unspoilered! If you want to share strategies or ingame information in this thread, use spoilers and write "Do not open unless you already sent in your game." on top of it. A separate thread for spoilers would be good, but I don't want to spam the main forum for this pilot.

4) Don't look at spoilers if you didn't finish your game!

5) Don't use cheat tools (Ingame Editor, Info Addict...) and don't open the map in some editor or else.

6) Don't use any additional mods besides full Vox Populi (1 to 6, either EUI or non-EUI) as I'm not sure whether I will be able to open your savegame files if you do.

Now, the exact goal for this challenge:

As fast as you can, have a trade route to all other living major and minor civilizations (city states) (at the same time).

Added Rule: (!)
In order to make sure you got them all, you need to reveal all 9 capitals of original city states (and meet all other 5 major civilizations).

(!) Additional Game Rule: You are not allowed to use the extra trade routes from the Colossus World Wonder for the goal of this challenge.

In case that completing the challenge is prevented by one AI not agreeing to a peace treaty, look into the details below to see under which conditions you may complete the challenge nevertheless.

Tie breaking is empire-wide gold income per turn. ​

This challenge should be shorter than the previous ones which is a good thing, I think.

Submission deadline is Sunday, the 26th of August, 6pm Eastern Time (midnight in Central European Time). You can submit by personal message to me, posting your save in this thread, or sending it to vox-populi-challenge@gmx.net. Don't forget to write the name under which you want to appear in the ranking if sending by e-mail!

Spoiler Game Settings :

• Map: Small Continents, Small
• 6 players, 9 city states
• Research Agreements, No Tech Trading
• No Ancient Ruins
• No Events

If something is not clear, read the following spoiler, then ask a question if still unclear:

Spoiler Challenge Specifications :

• The trade routes can start in any one of your cities, not only Venice.
• It is perfectly fine to reduce the number of trade routes needed by eliminating civs, buying and conquering city states etc. (or letting other civs conquer city states etc.)
• If you choose to build the colossus, you need to have two "free" trade routes in your submitted save (that is, two free slots or two trade routes that go to civs you also have another trade route with).
• This is to prevent the challenge from being a simple "Who builds the Colossus, wins."
• This restriction does not apply to Petra (but you will surprise me if you wander long enough to be able to build it).
• This restriction does also not apply to trade routes gained from other sources (policies, Grand Canal wonder, Corporation etc.)
• You do not need trade routes to city states created by revolts. (Attention, rule was changed!)
• You do need to prevent any resolution that disallows you from sending trade routes to achieve the goal (Sanctions, Cold War).
• As always, any civ winning the game doesn't change or influence your goal.

Under the following conditions, you can send in a save where you don't have trade routes to all living majors and minors (if an AI doesn't want peace):

• You have trade routes to all living civilizations (majors and minors) you are not at war with.
• You are at war with exactly one major civilization.
• You are at war with at most one city state allied to that civilization.
• You have trade units stationed in a way such that on a peace treaty, they can immediately start a trade route with that civilization and all of its city state allies (one trade unit for each needed route).
• This implies that the cities are in range of the trade units, and that no resolutions are passed that would prevent you from sending those trade routes, and that the trade units have movement points (= have changed location at latest in the previous turn).

If more civs don't want to peace out (or if the civilization that doesn't want peace has a vassal...), you need to achieve the original goal (so, don't neglect diplomacy too much).

I apologize for the complex goal assignment, but the principle is very simple, all additions are there to make the challenge work as intended.

This challenge is the fifth of a season of 12 challenges. After the submission deadline, I will rank all participants (divided by difficulty level) and you will get 15/13/11/10/9/8/7/6/5/4/3/2/1/1/1/... points for the 1st/2nd/3rd... rank. At the end of the season, your best 10 results will count for the final ranking.

The winners of the season (one for Prince, one for Immortal) will be granted the opportunity to become a part of the game as a Great Person of their choice (Prophets excluded). Thanks to Gazebo for this contribution to the challenge!

Now... download the save for your difficulty, make sure you have Vox Populi version 8-6-2 and you're ready to go!

 

[Grabbl]

With a bit of delay, the results are there!



There are quite some close finishs, especially for the Immortal challenge. Congratulations to Dejagore and ColonelCarter for being the best doge, and thanks to all participants! I hope you all had fun spreading your trade routes all over the world.



Consequently, Dejagore takes the lead in the Prince competition, and ColonelCarter now is on par with Peterw1987 (will he return to defend his position?).

Edit: For reasons of simple stupidity, I forgot that Merill also participated on Prince, the results should be correct now Sorry!

 

[CrabHelmet]

You do have a cruel streak, @Grabbl.

Spoiler :

Initial thoughts: heh, I'll just play Tradition Venice!

Thoughts after seeing my placement and my neighbours: heh, I'll just play Authority Venice!

 

[CrabHelmet]

@Grabbl

There is a slight mistake in the Game Settings, I think. There are not

Spoiler :

9

City States, there are

Spoiler :

8: Kiev, Yerevan, Florence, Bogota, Sydney, Zurich, Geneva, Belgrade

. Consequently, I was actually unaware I had met the requisite conditions until I hit Printing Press (instead I was desperately scouring the map for hidden City States...).

Do I have permission to roll back my save to the point I was in contact with all 8?

 

[Grabbl]

@Grabbl

There is a slight mistake in the Game Settings, I think. There are not

Spoiler :

9

City States, there are

Spoiler :

8: Kiev, Yerevan, Florence, Bogota, Sydney, Zurich, Geneva, Belgrade

. Consequently, I was unaware I had met the requisite conditions until I hit Printing Press.

Do I have permission to roll back my save to the point I was in contact with all 8?

The number of (initial) city states given in the post is correct, just checked it.

Spoiler :

You seem to be missing Valetta, it's probably conquered. (you play the Immortal challenge, I guess?)

But you uncovered a problem in the rules that you might not know that you meet the requirements. There will be a rule update in a few minutes when I have the answer to the following question:

How does Printing Press show you the number of city states alive? Their locations are only revealed upon era advance of the world congress, don't they? (@CrabHelmet)

 

[CrabHelmet]

Ah, yes. One of the other Civs took them out.

Spoiler :

...although I am a bit ashamed I didn't notice how 'un-Japanese' Valetta sounds...

I might be remembering wrong, but doesn't Printing Press only unlock when you've discovered all Civs and City-states?

Anyway, I enjoyed the challenge. I think I did it pretty blazing fast - I'd be surprised if people cut more than a few turns off. The only thing I think could make a significant difference is just plumb luck - one City State was responsible by itself for adding about 15 turns on because of how inconvenient it was to reach, but if it had been conquered by the AI (for example) then it would have made a real difference. I also made a very minor mistake in the order in which I chose my Religion's Beliefs, which I think maybe added about 2-3 turns.

Too late for a significant rule change, but I think it would have been a better challenge to say a trade route needs to run to every Capital and City-State in the game, even if that City-State has been conquered, unless it has been conquered by you. That takes random AI aggression, a huge source of luck, out of the equation. Even if X conquers City-State Y, you'd have to run a trade route to Y regardless. If you provided the player with the names of the 9 City-States, that would also solve the "how do I know if I'm done" question.

I suppose you might not be able to complete it if the AI razes any cities, but... to be honest I don't think I've ever seen the Immortal AI raze a city, ever.

That said, very minor quibble. I had a lot of fun with this one and thought the AI Civ selection and map layout was really interesting. I'll run through my strategy come the deadline.

 

[Grabbl]

Important things first (rule changes, original post will be updated):

(1) You do need to have revealed all 9 city state capitals (no matter who owns them then) and obviously discovered all major civilizations before you can complete the challenge.
(2) You don't need trade routes to city states created by revolting cities (as otherwise, you have no way of knowing they exist prior to city states entering the world congress).

I might be remembering wrong, but doesn't Printing Press only unlock when you've discovered all Civs and City-states?

I think you don't need to know all city states, just majors. And the city state capitals are revealed once city states enter the world congress.

On the other points, I'm happy that you liked it, you're right that the details of the concept "trade routes to everyone" could have been worked out better, it turned out to have a few more difficulties I thought

I suppose you might not be able to complete it if the AI razes any cities

As far as I know, also city states can't be razed, so this wouldn't even be a problem

 

[CrabHelmet]

There we go.

 

[ColonelCarter]

Too late for a significant rule change, but I think it would have been a better challenge to say a trade route needs to run to every Capital and City-State in the game, even if that City-State has been conquered, unless it has been conquered by you. That takes random AI aggression, a huge source of luck, out of the equation. Even if X conquers City-State Y, you'd have to run a trade route to Y regardless. If you provided the player with the names of the 9 City-States, that would also solve the "how do I know if I'm done" question.

In my game, conquered city-states keep their type symbol (Cultured, Maritime, Militaristic, etc.) in the city banner, similar to how conquered major civ cities will have their founder's symbol. I think this is an EUI thing. Though knowing the names would make easy confirmation and knowing what potential ally bonuses are in the game doesn't really matter since you have no idea where they are.

However, I don't think random AI aggression was really that impactful.

Spoiler :

My biggest holdup was finding Valletta as well, I didn't explore the Japanese coastline well enough and spent a bit scouring the poles first. But I had a Great Merchant ready to go purchase the last city-state when I found it anyway. You need Astronomy to get trade/embarked units across ocean, and I was able to control the amount of remaining trade targets before that point.

Main Gameplay spoiler:

Spoiler :

6 Civs, 9 City-States means a baseline of 14 trade routes you need. Routes come at Trade, Sailing, Currency, Compass, Economics, Railroad, Electricity, and Computers. Astronomy lets trade and embarked (Great Merchants) across ocean, which I assumed I'd need, meaning I could have 8 trade routes by that point. That means 6 kills/purchases by Astronomy is the goal. Trade and Authority have free Merchants, and going Trade early for a quick Market to get working on birthed GMs is useful. Pyramids feels too risky to me even though there's pretty good production terrain around. I'd rather have the guaranteed instant at Trade, which picks up Archers along the way, and I figure 2 birthed should be doable by Astronomy with Venice's bonus for puppets. This means I'll need to conquer 2 city-states or Civs.

Started Trapping as it's on the way to Trade and I want the option of Archer rushing any nearby civs/city-states. Lo and behold, Sweden is super close, so I build Monument > Shrine > Archers until supply cap. Opened Tradition > Justice for the most amount of yields for this rush, and took God of All Creation when pantheon came, though the production only affected the last couple archers. Bought Florence as soon as Trade's Merchant could get there for the Warriors to attack Sweden. It goes pretty smoothly, I lost 1 warrior and 1 archer in the assault, but eliminated them handily. 3 early puppets really helps my GM rate. I was also able to build Hanging Gardens. Policies after are put into Authority for the culture/science per kill, and eventually Imperium for the free Merchant.

I use the first birthed GM to buy Yerevan and immediately plant a citadel earned from the first war on the isthmus between Yerevan and a Roman expand. I don't want them pulling any funny business, but I also wouldn't mind getting my second conquest out of the way and not having to worry about every City-state being randomly well protected by terrain. Eventually Arabia offers me all their spare GPT and luxuries for me to declare war on Rome. I accept, but am unable to really touch Rome's spearmen as I still have archers. He can't touch me either though because of the hill citadel with a fortified spearmen in it. When I get construction, I am able to upgrade almost all of my archers to comp bows, and start construction on the Great Wall for an extra general to plant a new citadel directly next to the Roman city. Maybe I'm getting carried away, but Venice already has all science buildings, so it doesn't feel like I'm hurting myself that much. I take the Roman city that I burned 2 generals for, but am unable to push on the rest because Arabia planted a citadel outside workable range for their city and I only have another 2-wide gap to attack north. Some Triremes I built to harass the Roman coast take a weak island expand as well, and their experience will be useful.

After that the game settles down. I rush compass to upgrade my Triremes to Caravels and search for the remaining civs/city-states. I find Belgrade that has 3 sides coastal and decide to conquer it. Another city-state declares war on it as I'm sailing extra boats toward it so that makes a nice reward when it falls. Fortunately, a Great Admiral spawns early in the assault because a barbarian comp bow on a separate island is in range to shoot one of the ships that slams. The Admiral races over and heals the ships to keep the assault going at a timely pace and let my ships explore again.
I open Progress for the large burst of science while I'm researching Astronomy, but still hadn't found the 9th city-state.
Probably could have saved 6-10 turns if I had explored Valletta's coastline with a Caravel instead of a Great Merchant (lol) so that I could see its name. He just so happened to be right next to where he would've needed to be too...

 

[CrabHelmet]

Spoiler :

Your Rome was a lot less aggressive than mine. By the time I birthed my second MoV, Rome had already DoW'd Yerevan, I couldn't reach them in time. This cut me off from reaching Kiev easily, which was a pain.

 

[ColonelCarter]

Spoiler :

I guess I meant China and Japan randomly capturing city-states wouldn't let you win at 6 trade routes instead of 8, since you need Astronomy anyway.
Rome did go to war with Arabia early I think, but I think I would have been able to take Yerevan from them because then their reinforcements would have to trickle through and I could have ~7 archers able to attack per turn. It seems in your game Arabia settled closer to Rome so they couldn't squeeze a city between them and Yerevan and just went for Yerevan itself.

 

[Thomas8]

Prince level challenge - I have built Colossus, but waited until Economics to have enough Trade Routes. Finished on turn 220.

 

[Zestikios]

Just finished prince. I enjoyed this, venice is a unique civ that i quite like! I hope im ok with the rules, they were quite complicated this time

 

[Thomas8]

Finished Immortal - turn 192. In the end it was not much harder than prince. I even finished it 30 turns earlier. Although fact that I have stole 2 techs to economy helped here.

Spoiler :

And the fact that Japan conquered two city states. I thought that Sweden might conquer another one in the south, after two wars he failed. I was constantly afraid that Rome would attack me - but I only had one early war with Sweden.

 

[merill]

As the main link in the version thread still goes to version 8-6-1, allow me to point to the more recent version:
https://mega.nz/#!jRtnjKSb!RM5sdLhz3SN42MxC-lz-17N5NT6BjVzDf78qHlUA8E8

The link is dead.
Can someone send me the good installer?

thanks.

 

[Grabbl]

https://mega.nz/#!uqpn2D6C!VEnD8ZiyI8tlkTy2FSIqkaooomTnhTvBXCpe9eXUreY

Thanks to all participants already!

 

[merill]

Spoiler :

finished prince t204

Rome recaptured a converted cs.
I missed capturing a barbarian cs by 2 turns.
Failed to capture a CS with caravel.
So I had to wait economics...

ps: i have colossus, so i have an useless trade route +1 trade boat waiting in venice.
https://mega.nz/#!E0BBCKBJ!psh2ll5DtPE_S-M7s8eQ4HoW6Ln4bwyPPhi37n-WnT8

edit: immortal:

Spoiler :

finished prince t190

I fudged up, had to wait 10 turn for my horsehockey trade routes to end....
https://mega.nz/#!opYyGS5K!2UK5IF8mGA0lH4fCqz9p9l3HGsSLv-ainQh2EEr5ZjI

 

[Grabbl]

The results are finally there (second post).

Thanks to all participants, and stay alert for the next challenge, probably coming at some time today .

 

[CrabHelmet]

Well at least GPT didn't end up mattering...

 

[Grabbl]

I made a mistake in the results (forgot merill on Prince), it is now corrected. Sorry!