The West Tower
- Thread starter Indiansmoke
- Start date
Indiansmoke
Deity
so Amazon move back the axes they upgraded...
Our moves not finished yet, want to think on it and will play tommorow..
Spoiler :
Our moves not finished yet, want to think on it and will play tommorow..
slaze
Deity
The time for announcements and pomp and passed so I'll just get right into it: What are we to do about all this diplomacy? I want to brainstorm the closest thing we can to a resonable deal
Getting someone (or multiple people) to all of a sudden switch out of an established tech-trading alliance is a hard nut to crack, and I'm afraid it's just about to ramp up for them. It's been awhile since they researched something and Astronomy is the go to tech for them right now with increased health and happy resource trades and the trade route commerce.
So, and I think Indiansmoke would agree, we are resigned to our fate, which is our hard and inevitable death.
But then, what to do while we are still alive, and that then becomes the scope of our diplomatic ambitions. I've always thought it to be the most honorable to go after the leader. But then what if we went after the weakling? Maybe that would be worth something to somebody else.
But then our two civs' interest is to team up on Amazon, and that's not worth much.
I'll sleep on it again.............
Getting someone (or multiple people) to all of a sudden switch out of an established tech-trading alliance is a hard nut to crack, and I'm afraid it's just about to ramp up for them. It's been awhile since they researched something and Astronomy is the go to tech for them right now with increased health and happy resource trades and the trade route commerce.
So, and I think Indiansmoke would agree, we are resigned to our fate, which is our hard and inevitable death.
But then, what to do while we are still alive, and that then becomes the scope of our diplomatic ambitions. I've always thought it to be the most honorable to go after the leader. But then what if we went after the weakling? Maybe that would be worth something to somebody else.
But then our two civs' interest is to team up on Amazon, and that's not worth much.
I'll sleep on it again.............
Again I apologize my limited view on what has happened, but nevertheless here is my suggestion how to proceed in diplo front.
At 1st I think we should discuss with CDZ and try to found out how much we must give in to get them on our side. I wouldn't bring Sirius as ally up unless they seem very willing to help us. Chatting with someone is probably easiest way to find out what is possible. At minimum we should get a secret pact where they don't do much in a war against us and promise that they will help us later when their possible deals with others are not anymore limiting them. I would start offering them settling rights towards us/mavericks. If it sounds they're willing to discuss, but this isn't enough we could start offering more. I would go pretty far if nescessary. My limit would be around where we start to unbalance the game significantly. If this comes to dead end, it is probably indicative that at the moment we can't find new friends. Nevertheless I would then try either Quatronia or Sirius using pretty similar approach.
The take over of Mavericks probably makes our possibilities in diplomacy weaker. One possibility is to promise to free them to sovereign nation assuming we can find enough old Mavericks + some others to continue there. I think it is important to bring this possibility up in the negotiations.
At 1st I think we should discuss with CDZ and try to found out how much we must give in to get them on our side. I wouldn't bring Sirius as ally up unless they seem very willing to help us. Chatting with someone is probably easiest way to find out what is possible. At minimum we should get a secret pact where they don't do much in a war against us and promise that they will help us later when their possible deals with others are not anymore limiting them. I would start offering them settling rights towards us/mavericks. If it sounds they're willing to discuss, but this isn't enough we could start offering more. I would go pretty far if nescessary. My limit would be around where we start to unbalance the game significantly. If this comes to dead end, it is probably indicative that at the moment we can't find new friends. Nevertheless I would then try either Quatronia or Sirius using pretty similar approach.
The take over of Mavericks probably makes our possibilities in diplomacy weaker. One possibility is to promise to free them to sovereign nation assuming we can find enough old Mavericks + some others to continue there. I think it is important to bring this possibility up in the negotiations.
I disagree -- they now know for certain that if they have a deal with one, they have a deal with both. And whatever team we deal with, we cover one of their flanks.
SunTzuWarrior
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jun 14, 2009
- Messages
- 81
CDZ is the obvious team in terms of diplomacy. My idea is close to that of Plako, lets strike a secret deal with CDZ promising them settling rights. OR we could try for the homerun and ask them to declare war on Q, because they already know that Q is weakly defended and we'll promise to launch an invasion of Q alongside CDZ.
Can we gift cities? If so, we could tell CDZ that we would be willing to gift any city of Q that we capture to them. I agree with Plako, to improve our standing in this game, we need to do something drastic.
Can we gift cities? If so, we could tell CDZ that we would be willing to gift any city of Q that we capture to them. I agree with Plako, to improve our standing in this game, we need to do something drastic.
Cataphract887
Prince
I dont know that the maverick acquisition actually benefits us. 4v2 is about as hopeless as 4v1, yet it seems until our 'side' has been broken the alliance still has enough external pressure to remain whole. I suggested this somewhere else, but allowing someone else to acquire mavs intact would change the balance of power on our terms more than any other action. It may seem like a terrible waste to throw the mavs away, but i dont see how clutching onto them helps us much considering there isnt much sign of the alliance cracking.
The other option is to force an imbalance by combining both our armies on one target, creating local force superiority over any one other nation. Though it seems inevitable we will be run into the ground with that approach as we need to defend two islands and maintain a larger army in the middle area than any one nation all at once
For the alliance members, there is another option besides joining mavs\merlot, they could form a pact with another alliance member to betray the other two. In that case there is no reason to believe CDZ who may have a secret alliance in the works already, would ever join us in current circumstances.
The other option is to force an imbalance by combining both our armies on one target, creating local force superiority over any one other nation. Though it seems inevitable we will be run into the ground with that approach as we need to defend two islands and maintain a larger army in the middle area than any one nation all at once
For the alliance members, there is another option besides joining mavs\merlot, they could form a pact with another alliance member to betray the other two. In that case there is no reason to believe CDZ who may have a secret alliance in the works already, would ever join us in current circumstances.
I dont see the alliance breaking without us being destroyed. mavs and merlot now beeing 1 team only makes things worse diplo wise...
the only way i see to break the alliance is to do that much pressure on 1 of the team that they have to cave in or be crippled for the rest of the game.
-> if we have to sacrifice the whole mav. empire to do so, even better. as long as we are 2 teams we cant realistically expect to negociate with any other team.
->if we manage to defend the 3 cities on the mav. home-island and use all other cities to whip out an army, best that could happen to us is loosing most of the originally mav. cities and 1 of the allies becomming superstrong, while we throw all mav. units on another ally, shifting the ballance even more.
only when we seem to be beaten, we have a chance to negociate again. and best is to look more beaten then we are, having planned it ahead long ago...
the only way i see to break the alliance is to do that much pressure on 1 of the team that they have to cave in or be crippled for the rest of the game.
-> if we have to sacrifice the whole mav. empire to do so, even better. as long as we are 2 teams we cant realistically expect to negociate with any other team.
->if we manage to defend the 3 cities on the mav. home-island and use all other cities to whip out an army, best that could happen to us is loosing most of the originally mav. cities and 1 of the allies becomming superstrong, while we throw all mav. units on another ally, shifting the ballance even more.
only when we seem to be beaten, we have a chance to negociate again. and best is to look more beaten then we are, having planned it ahead long ago...
I think we should check what we can achieve diplomatically at this point. If it is close to nothing then I think Snaaty's suggestion sounds most realistic to get us back in the game. Throwing Mav army against Quatronia's main land settlement and strengthening Sirius would probably work best for us from the possible alternatives.
How about if we promise to CDZ (or whoever we want to deal with) that we won't use Mavericks for boosting Merlot and we will release the control of Mavericks when the alliance has run its course? We could also add to that a clause we will unconditionally publish them the Maverick screen caps and all requested info to them as well as soon as we get paper. This may help lessen the fact we have two civs to play with a bit, though it will require quite a lot of trust on their side.
Another option is to go on rampage as Snaaty has suggested. That should make at least someone to rethink the value of staying true to the evil conglomerate. I would suggest starting to prepare for this option right now, but try to see first what we can do with regural diplomacy.
About who we should approach, I believe CDZ would be a good option. If I remember correctly long time ago someone said that Quatronia is the weakest team skillwise. That probably will make it more difficult for them to see that it's obvious that Sirious and Amazons are most probably going to rule the game if we will be defeated. At this point of the game, everyone should be really cautious of Dutch anyway. Also Quatronia being a weak player makes this a perfect opportunity for a double cross for the CDZ. If they mount a surprise attack on Q soon after they get the Astronomy, and we attack from the land at the same time, Quatronia would most likely fall very soon. Another reason why I'd prefer allying CDZ is that I really don't like hostile berserkers on my neighbourhood.
Another option is to go on rampage as Snaaty has suggested. That should make at least someone to rethink the value of staying true to the evil conglomerate. I would suggest starting to prepare for this option right now, but try to see first what we can do with regural diplomacy.
About who we should approach, I believe CDZ would be a good option. If I remember correctly long time ago someone said that Quatronia is the weakest team skillwise. That probably will make it more difficult for them to see that it's obvious that Sirious and Amazons are most probably going to rule the game if we will be defeated. At this point of the game, everyone should be really cautious of Dutch anyway. Also Quatronia being a weak player makes this a perfect opportunity for a double cross for the CDZ. If they mount a surprise attack on Q soon after they get the Astronomy, and we attack from the land at the same time, Quatronia would most likely fall very soon. Another reason why I'd prefer allying CDZ is that I really don't like hostile berserkers on my neighbourhood.
slaze
Deity
I agree with much of what's being said here: CDZ is our first step.
The question is the approach. Do we offer them a deal full with settling rights and intentions and all or do we send out a feeler first. I suppose I'm leaning towards the feeler. Given our desperate situation, we could always fall back on th detailed deal if we don't get anything productive back. Something like
Team CDZ,
Greeting from King Slaze, of the combined kingdoms of Merlot and Mavericks. As I'm sure you are fully aware, I have inherited quite the precarious situation for my loyal subjects. And though I understand that it is most unlikely and unprofitable for your nation to deviate from diplomatic pratices already established, we can't help but wonder, in the spirit of survivalism and "going out with a bang", if our nations can co-operate in some way to further our mutual benefit. If such a proposition interests you, then we may be obliged to speak on these matters in further detail. At this point I would also like to add that you are the first and only nation we have reached out to, as we see it, given the current state of play, as the most honorable move to make. I await your reply.
The question is the approach. Do we offer them a deal full with settling rights and intentions and all or do we send out a feeler first. I suppose I'm leaning towards the feeler. Given our desperate situation, we could always fall back on th detailed deal if we don't get anything productive back. Something like
Team CDZ,
Greeting from King Slaze, of the combined kingdoms of Merlot and Mavericks. As I'm sure you are fully aware, I have inherited quite the precarious situation for my loyal subjects. And though I understand that it is most unlikely and unprofitable for your nation to deviate from diplomatic pratices already established, we can't help but wonder, in the spirit of survivalism and "going out with a bang", if our nations can co-operate in some way to further our mutual benefit. If such a proposition interests you, then we may be obliged to speak on these matters in further detail. At this point I would also like to add that you are the first and only nation we have reached out to, as we see it, given the current state of play, as the most honorable move to make. I await your reply.
)
ash88
Hail to the King Baby -DN
Awesome!
I'm really looking forward to the reply.
I'm really looking forward to the reply.
That's a very nice letter, slaze. Honestly, nothing really needs to be changed, I think its fairly reasonable and well-worded.
Please send it out...although I'm pretty certain you already have it, you can PM me or Caledorn for the passcode to the diplomacy email if you need it.
In the future, I'll attempt to do a bit more for diplomatic letters and such, but I'm a bit short on spare time these days...
Please send it out...although I'm pretty certain you already have it, you can PM me or Caledorn for the passcode to the diplomacy email if you need it.
In the future, I'll attempt to do a bit more for diplomatic letters and such, but I'm a bit short on spare time these days...
slaze
Deity
Sent it over ... now we wait.
Caledorn
Emperor
Excellent letter, Your Majesty!
This might belong in the Foyer, but I'll post it here anyways.. Do you have any "backup" plan suggestions diplomacywise in case we do not receive a reply from CDZ? They never responded to the previous letter that was sent to them a month or two ago..
This might belong in the Foyer, but I'll post it here anyways.. Do you have any "backup" plan suggestions diplomacywise in case we do not receive a reply from CDZ? They never responded to the previous letter that was sent to them a month or two ago..
SunTzuWarrior
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jun 14, 2009
- Messages
- 81
I agree it's an excellent letter! Not much more we can do but hope for a good reply.
Zorag
Chieftain
A well put together message. Well done your majesty.
SunTzuWarrior
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jun 14, 2009
- Messages
- 81
Just looked at the latest turn.
Mavs - What if we load our crossbows currently being built on the mainland and use them to capture a weak Q city? Yes it would defeat the purpose of trying to fortify Mavs further but wow we could really send a message by capturing an opponents city. I cant remember the settings, if we were to capture the city, we should destroy it and retreat our soldiers back to the Mav territory, this way we've destroyed their city and forced them to abandon their current plans in order to restore that cities position. Any chance we get to disrupt another teams plan is monumental at this stage, we've got to disrupt this "status quo" that exists among the alliance.
Merlot - The two settler positions worry be a bit because I fear we may be limiting the growth ability of the barb city (which we plan to capture) and Circus. But, if we keep slavery we wont need a huge growth ability so that argument would be answered. Anytime we can settle on a river it's great so I like the northern location, the southern worries me the most.
Mavs - What if we load our crossbows currently being built on the mainland and use them to capture a weak Q city? Yes it would defeat the purpose of trying to fortify Mavs further but wow we could really send a message by capturing an opponents city. I cant remember the settings, if we were to capture the city, we should destroy it and retreat our soldiers back to the Mav territory, this way we've destroyed their city and forced them to abandon their current plans in order to restore that cities position. Any chance we get to disrupt another teams plan is monumental at this stage, we've got to disrupt this "status quo" that exists among the alliance.
Merlot - The two settler positions worry be a bit because I fear we may be limiting the growth ability of the barb city (which we plan to capture) and Circus. But, if we keep slavery we wont need a huge growth ability so that argument would be answered. Anytime we can settle on a river it's great so I like the northern location, the southern worries me the most.
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