The 'Zero Tech' Gambit

[writethatdown]

I'm playing a Monarch game as the Dutch right now. I'm not sure if I can compete with the AI for techs on even grounds, so I was wondering ... how effective is it to just threaten or pummel the techs out of the computer?

I wouldn't really get any techs not from goody huts until I have a strong military, I figure, which would leave me somewhat weak in the beginning. And since the Dutch start with Alphabet, I'd like to get Philosophy first and slingshot to Republic. I'm not sure if I could do this with the 'Zero Tech' Gambit.

Could anyone who has used this strategy give me the lowdown on it? What would be the best way to go about building a massive reserve of gold while getting techs from my neighbors to stay competitive?

 

[Bucephalus]

I'm playing a Monarch game as the Dutch right now. I'm not sure if I can compete with the AI for techs on even grounds, so I was wondering ... how effective is it to just threaten or pummel the techs out of the computer?

I wouldn't really get any techs not from goody huts until I have a strong military, I figure, which would leave me somewhat weak in the beginning. And since the Dutch start with Alphabet, I'd like to get Philosophy first and slingshot to Republic. I'm not sure if I could do this with the 'Zero Tech' Gambit.

Logic dictates that the Republic slingshot is impossible unless you pop Philosophy from a hut.

Since you cannot research for yourselves, you must either buy, steal, extort or exchange your techs from other civs, so you cannot be first to any tech unless you get it from a hut.

 

[hrhomer]

Logic dictates that the Republic slingshot is impossible unless you pop Philosophy from a hut.

Since you cannot research for yourselves, you must either buy, steal, extort or exchange your techs from other civs, so you cannot be first to any tech unless you get it from a hut.

I disagree. The AI seldom researches the top of the tech tree before hitting all or most of the bottom techs - I often get the philo slingshot on Monarch, and in fact got it just a few days ago in my latest Emperor game, with no barbs so no goody huts. I let the AI research the others for me.

Joe

 

[Theryman]

Logic dictates that the Republic slingshot is impossible unless you pop Philosophy from a hut.

Since you cannot research for yourselves, you must either buy, steal, extort or exchange your techs from other civs, so you cannot be first to any tech unless you get it from a hut.

Not true. The Repub slingshot is a fundamental element of my early game. I usually play with no barbs, so I do not need to worry about another civ popping all the way up there, but even if I do not start with alphabet, nine out of ten times I can still get it.

Why? The AI does not prioritize that part of the tree. In any given game you might have to beat one rival to it, if that.

Also, I can expand and micromanage better than the AI.

 

[gmaharriet]

Not true. The Repub slingshot is a fundamental element of my early game. I usually play with no barbs, so I do not need to worry about another civ popping all the way up there, but even if I do not start with alphabet, nine out of ten times I can still get it.

Why? The AI does not prioritize that part of the tree. In any given game you might have to beat one rival to it, if that.

Also, I can expand and micromanage better than the AI.

But if, as writethatdown stated in his original post, you are doing zero research, you have to buy all your techs from the AI and that means they must be ahead of you.

The single exception to this, as posted by Bucephalus, would be if you'd already purchased Code of Laws from the AI and then popped Philo from a goody hut.

 

[Norton II]

But if, as writethatdown stated in his original post, you are doing zero research, you have to buy all your techs from the AI and that means they must be ahead of you.

The single exception to this, as posted by Bucephalus, would be if you'd already purchased Code of Laws from the AI and then popped Philo from a goody hut.

Of course, it's not often that the AI gets CoL before philosophy--they'll always go for the latter tech first, but occasionally they'll pop CoL from a hut in the meantime.

@writethatdown: At monarch, you should have no trouble keeping up with the AI in tech as long as you have good land near your start, expand quickly enough and build roads on all your worked tiles. Expansionist AIs might have a temporary advantage, but that won't last past the ancient era.

 

[Aabraxan]

Bucephalus is correct in the incompatibility of the Republic slingshot & a zero research gambit. As you must be first to get to Philosophy, popping Phil from a hut would be the only way to convert Philosophy into a slingshot. Additionally, I believe that I've read that popping huts gives you the lowest cost tech that you are not currently researching (I may be wrong here). Which, if correct, would mean that you would have to have a lot more researched/bought/pointysticked before popping that hut.

@writethatdown -- I'd say you need to make a choice between zero research and the slingshot. At Monarch, the slingshot is a goal within reach. As the Dutch, you'll start with Alpha, putting you one tech on the road to the slingshot. Use early curraghs to get out exploring. Don't trade anybody up to tech parity until you've locked down the slingshot, but trading can bolster your treasury enough to let you run deficit research, if need be. You'll feel like you're behind in techs, but once you get Republic, you can trade around for almost anything you want.

On the other hand, if you're more interested in zero research, there's a zero research SG at demigod going on right now that might be of some interest.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=205564

 

[Desertsnow]

Bucephalus is right, Republic Slingshot is impossible with this gambit unless you pop Philosophy, and specifically Philosophy, from a hut.
The Zero Tech Gambit (also called Zero Science Gambit) is useful if you are behind in cash and have contact with at least several other tribes, allowing you to buy techs from someone or other as money comes in, for cash or barter. Or, yes, extort if you're feeling bold. The idea is that you can't afford do run your science slider up, so you might as well turn it to zero and buy when convenient. (Or, if you have the Great Library you can just let the advancements roll in, but you'll probably want to be in contact with at least a few of the AIs here.) You won't have a tech lead, of course, but you will not be far behind if you play it out right.

 

[Sweetchuck]

Goody huts - LOL!

 

[writethatdown]

Tremendous. Thanks for the help, everyone.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

I think it's even harder than you think.

You dont' get to choose what you get for free if you pop philo - it gives you whatever you are researching, unless what you are researching is philo. At that point, it will ask you.

The only way to pop something you are currrently researching is if you have all teh other techs.

So, it will be the last thing you get. on monarch, it seems unlikely that you can pop enough huts to pop philo before someone else researches it.

Best bet would be to pop writing, research philo and try to pop CoL from a hut, if you want to do try min-research and slingshot. But it requires you to be expansionist (can't pop enough huts without it) and very lucky.

 

[Sweetchuck]

The huts produce stuff at random.

Save your game, hit a hut and see what it gives, go back and reload, hit the same hut a few times and you'll get a few different things.

 

[Mirc]

^ That is only if you have "preserve random seed" switched off. And it's a cheat.

 

[Kiowa]

I think it's even harder than you think.

So, it will be the last thing you get. on monarch, it seems unlikely that you can pop enough huts to pop philo before someone else researches it.

Best bet would be to pop writing, research philo and try to pop CoL from a hut, if you want to do try min-research and slingshot. But it requires you to be expansionist (can't pop enough huts without it) and very lucky.

I popped Philo from a hut as America. I sent out three scouts before building anything else, built a worker and then another scout. With four scouts popping huts early in the game, I popped a slew of stuff.