this game is boring

[Atwork]

I've read a lot of people's perspectives re: C5 compared to C4. I thought Sulla wrote a great review. But, I think the most interesting perspective I've read so far is from ProximaCentauri above....

C4 evolved the franchise to new heights and much of the growth was driven by the community itself. That's the biggest reason that I am so disappointed by this vanilla C5. By throwing the baby out with the bath water, it feels like a slap in the face to the community who have poured so much love into this franchise.

In most people's opinions, including C5 developers, fresh graphics, an overhall of the combat system, and serious dedication to the AI and diplomacy were the priorities.....instead the developers, under Schafer's direction, tore away much of the foundation of what made C4 great, and then produced a game in which the AI and diplomacy are terrible, there are huge exploits written into the game (read Sulla), the UI is more clunky and difficult to navigate, city screens are cluttered, less info is available upon mouse-overs, and basic details seemed neglected (such as unit movement), and blah blah blah....

Besides the improved combat (arguable) and nice graphics (though lifeless and cluttered with TPs), IMO the developers misplaced their energies, leaving it up to the community to wrestle control of the direction of this franchise away from the Shafer-ites. Not to say that C5 doesn't have something to offer -- it does. But, C4 was a wonderful game -- and there was no need to make C5 the enemy of the already good.

Having had my rant, I feel confident in the future of C5 because I have full faith in the civ community. I know that C5 will eventually be great. Just wish I had the urge to 'CIV out' in the mean time. But I don't.

 

[Xzylvador]

Just thought I'd add another vote here:
Fully agree with the OP.

I probably spent thousands of hours on Civ4 (Yes, modded with Rise of Mankind, but before that I enjoyed Vanilla, Warlords and BtS just as well).
Civ5 started to become boring somewhere in the 3rd game, and has now been replaced by Civ4 again.
Really hoping for some good mods...

 

[Rellin]

I have not played since my first 4 games or so. Waiting for a miracle patch I imagine will never come.

 

[Darth Caesar]

Unfortunately you're right.

 

[ProximaCentauri]

Oh, and when you are comfortable with the depth and rules of Civ4BTS, get the BUG mod asap, and if possible, Rise of Mankind: A New Dawn... both masterpieces.

Thanks. I'll try that a bit later, as I was playing the standard C4 and just got BTS.
Damn, this expansion is a whole new game, and it just makes my previous feelings about C5's emptiness worse !

 

[BakeliteRules]

I don't normally get involved in the online yak-a-yak, but my experience with CIV-5 is making me angry enough to add to the confusion.

Background: I am an ol' guy (63 ans is just a blink away) and I only have experience with CIV-4. I got hooked 2 years ago after playing a computer magazine demo of CIV-4, and after quickly buying the game proceeded to go sleepless for 72 hours! I have dabbled in Civ Fanatics game of the month and found I was addicted to this CIV-4. I even gave it up for 3 months but lured myself back after proper sleep. When the noise about CIV-5 came out I said "OH Boy, can't wait!"

Bought the store CIV-5 game- frigged with @~!! Steam and have been playing for 3 weeks. Horrible experience. My current game is 4 days long. The time for turn is a game killer. I have no clue why there are City States ( Warts is what I call them), and frankly there is nothing to do but "war". i will wander the halls of CIV-5 for another couple weeks but if i see no substantial upgrade in the game I will go back to "BTS".

If the franchise isn't listening they have as we say "screwed the pooch!"

crusty

 

[Aristos]

Thanks. I'll try that a bit later, as I was playing the standard C4 and just got BTS.
Damn, this expansion is a whole new game, and it just makes my previous feelings about C5's emptiness worse !

Welcome... and yes, BTS alone is probably worth more than this Panzer General experiment... don't wait more to get the BUG mod, as B.U.G. stands for "Beyond the Sword Unaltered Gameplay", in the sense that it does not change any rules of the game, but presents the information in a brilliant way (information that "is there", but you would have to check every single turn and calculate by yourself without BUG).

If you are in for more challenge, you could also try to hibrid BUG/BetterBTSAI compiled together by Fuyu (look in the true Civ forums)... BetterAI makes the BTS AI even more of a challenge (and believe me, compared to Shafer's Artificial Lollypop, the BTS AI is Skynet)...

And please, don't listen to the naysayers... I know it is hard to accept one's own mistakes and try to justity them, so just be patient with them, but trust your instincts... they are telling you which version remains true to the core of the franchise.

Most of all, enjoy! And welcome to the vice...


rjg

 

[TheBackStabber]

Pretty much spot on Thorite.

The saddest part is that they dont care about history anymore. Example : Trireme. Bombarding but not ramming/boarding. Really???

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trireme

Tactics

In the ancient world, naval combat relied on two methods: ramming and boarding. Artillery in the form of ballistas and catapults was widespread, especially in later centuries, but its inherent technical limitations meant that it could not play a decisive role in combat. Rams (embolon) were fitted to the prows of warships, and were used to rupture the hull of the enemy ship. The preferred method of attack was to come in from astern, with the aim not of creating a single hole, but of rupturing as big a length of the enemy vessel as possible. The speed necessary for a successful impact depended on the angle of attack; the greater the angle, the lesser the speed required. At 60 degrees, 4 knots was enough to penetrate the hull, while it increased to 8 knots at 30 degrees. If the target for some reason was in motion in the direction of the attacker, even less speed was required, and especially if the hit came amidships.[50] Another method was to brush alongside the enemy ship, with oars drawn in, in order to break the enemy's oars and render the ship immobile, to be finished off with ease. In any case, prior to engagement, the masts and railings of the ship were taken down, hindering any attempt at using grappling hooks. The Athenians especially became masters in the art of ramming, using light, un-decked (aphraktai) triremes.

Call me old and grey (34) but the hole DLC seem like scamming to me. In the "old days" when a game needed a patch it was because of hardware configurations. Not because the game was half finished. Nowadays people seem to actually accept 0 day DLC's. Jesus! If it was finished why wasnt it part of the game. Also the scheming to remove working functions only to add them later in "Extra Addons packages" seems scruples.

Just my 50 cents

In civ iv, civs researched animal husbandry, agriculture, archery and hunting after 4000 bc, even though they were founded earlier than that particular time frame in real life. I can name more inaccuracies than that. Don't forget cannons first coming in during the industrial age during gameplay, when they were supposed to come around during the medieval/renaissance age, and immortals being horseback riders when they were actually foot soldiers.

Oh, and don't forget buddhism being founded in the stone age.

 

[TheBlackAdderBG]

In civ iv, civs researched animal husbandry, agriculture, archery and hunting after 4000 bc, even though they were founded earlier than that particular time frame in real life. I can name more inaccuracies than that. Don't forget cannons first coming in during the industrial age during gameplay, when they were supposed to come around during the medieval/renaissance age, and immortals being horseback riders when they were actually foot soldiers.

Oh, and don't forget buddhism being founded in the stone age.

Cannon unit in 18 century make sеnse to me,immortals are cavalry units in later Persia(Sassanid dynasty).But Trireme to fire arrows and never to engage/ram? to another ship....

 

[Theodorick]

I ended up making another thread because I couldn't find this one (doh). I'll just post what I said here.



I have been with the civilization series since the very start, and even liked Civ III to the point that I almost failed my senior year because of it. I still play Civ IV a few times a week.

Being an avid fan--I have gone as far as to try and get my friends to jump on the civ bandwagon, and have made numerous scenarios in Civ IV--I'd have thought I'd really enjoy CiV. I didn't enjoy CiV though.

I never tried Civ revolutions because so many called it a step down in quality and complexity from the civilization series as a whole. Possibly that's when I should have stopped dipping into civilization, if the developers were lowering their standards.

Now about CiV, I just find it painfully boring. I got through a few games, and never once could say I was engaged or very interested in anything going on. It felt like there were a lot of pretty lights, but it was all very shallow in the end, like some fireworks show that's ten times more enjoyable when you're drunk, and just as forgetful when you're sober. I barely made it to 60 hours of playtime according to steam. This is pathetic, since Civ IV gets more play time a month still than CiV has made since release, and I don't see the play time going any higher.

I am not the only one that's found it boring. Two of my friends who I got into the civilization series a few years ago, also found CiV boring, and one only got to 18 hours playtime before uninstalling it and heading to better pastures. That's made me a little -sad-, because it seems the Civ franchise lost three loyal or developing to be loyal costumers at once, and it makes me wonder just how many more were lost in the bigger picture.

I found CiV so boring, I can't see myself buying an expansion. I might buy the next civilization, but even with that I am on the edge. The CiV franchise to me has turned into some hypothetical wonderful girlfriend, who cooks you an excellent meal and makes amazing love to you each night, but suddenly on the 5th night, she's had a lobotomy, is suffering from amnesia, lost her sense of smell, and is partly paralyzed, but she makes a strong attempt to cook you dinner and make love with you anyways, even though she has no idea what she's doing. In other words, I've never been so bored and disappointed about a Civ game ever. CiV's dinner is bland, and after you finish it, you just want to go to sleep and forget that it ever happened.

 

[Skwink]

Hey guys, if you like IV so much more, why don't you go talk about it in the IV forum, or better yet, stop arguing and go play IV.

 

[Ayt]

I last played the game one month ago today. I didn't even have the urge to play after the patch came out.

What a waste of money.

 

[ohioastronomy]

Hey guys, if you like IV so much more, why don't you go talk about it in the IV forum, or better yet, stop arguing and go play IV.

Why post this (again)?

 

[EmpireOfCats]

I have not played since my first 4 games or so. Waiting for a miracle patch I imagine will never come.

This is the new term I will be using from now on: "The Miracle Patch". Nice.

 

[hclass]

Hey guys, if you like IV so much more, why don't you go talk about it in the IV forum, or better yet, stop arguing and go play IV.

Hey friend,
If you really like Civ5, why don't you go playing it instead of trying to stop people from posting their feel of Civ5 here? They are comparing Civ4 and Civ5, so putting their post here is as appropriate as putting it in Civ4 forum. Putting it here, at least can save many who have not yet bought Civ5 from wasting their money (if Civ5 is really that bad)

 

[Sadan01]

Hey guys, if you like IV so much more, why don't you go talk about it in the IV forum, or better yet, stop arguing and go play IV.

Because this is the general discussion forum for Civilization V and I bought Civilization V. Just because I do not like the game in it's current state doesn't mean I cannot post about why I do not like it or why I think it is boring.

But in the same vein, if you enjoy Civilization V, then good on you - I don't understand why you feel the need to post in a thread that has nothing to do with how you're feeling about the game to which you add nothing to the discussion.

 

[danieladler]

Yes, it is boring. Besides the things you talk about, its simply becomes boring when you reach the industrial era. I dont know why. It may be the fact that the AI is so stupid that you dont get any real challenge, it may be the combat system and the units that way too much benefits the attacker while the defender is treated unfair by the game. Civ4 had its many flaws in the beginning as well but it still was a game that made you want to play more. It doesnt matter if they fix all the technical issues of Civ5. It wont solve the fact that the game seem to have lost its soul.

 

[vandyr]

Imo,its only boring because it doesn't have as much as Civ 4 has now. In a year or two it will probably have as much or more than Civ 4 has and then when Civ 6 comes out, it will be 'boring' because it doesn't have as much as Civ 5 has. Personally, I think it'd be nigh impossible for games of this kind of scope to release as fully fleshed out as its predecessor without having to wait years and years.

My take on it, anyway. And for those of you feeling nostalgic, dig up some of the forum posts from Civ 4 launch.

You'll be surprised at what you find.

 

[Zydor]

There was a chat going on in another thread and the duplication with this one had not been realised - apologies to the moderators. So I have copied one of my posts from it to here, as I believe its the core issue in Civ5, and very pertanent to those who think Civ5 is boring. No matter what version of Civ you look at, there will always be balance issues, and things needing tweeking. But Civ 5 has totally changed the whole core tenants of the Civilisation Franchise. It is now a wargame as another poster on this thread put it. To Empire Builders Civ5 is boring, period. To warmongers is fine because its now a shoot-em-up that trys to convince you that you are being terribly strategic. As to why ..... here's my previous post on the other thread:

Not dumbed down ..... rofl. You cant get more dumb than have a central tenant to game than "buying" culture, how utterly stupid.

With military resources, how did the City States get the wherewithall to make 'em? We spend the whole game with the concept that CS are weak and dont take too many or the AI will be hissed off, and then watch the AI take em at will - take the very organisations that magically produce weapon systems out of thin air, yet cant defend themselves ? Its a nonesense and an obvious game mechanic.

As for food, come on, its ridiculous. A small city state magically produces enough food to feed a global world wide empire ..... its utterly ridiculous, another obvious game mechanic bowing to shoot em up mentality and reduce the need to use the brain.

Then we have that freakin Robot at the end of the game .... where did that come from? Its clearly driven by drama needs for dorks. As one dev put it on a polycast "I always felt it needed the big super weapon to finish the game off" .... huh? .... dont tell me thats being driven by a concept of immersive empire building, its pure shoot-em-up.

From a developer viewpoint, having got rid of the complexities of Culture, Food, and manufacture of weapons systems, they can concentrate far less resource on building a shoot em up at a cheaper cost, and pandy to individuals thinking they are being terribly "strategic" manipulating so called "strategies" like "warrior rush", "horse rush" et al. Strategies my fiddlesticks, its game mechanics, nothing near military strategy. Pure tosh.

The Civ Franchise up to Civ IV was far from perfect, would always butt up against the complexities of real life, but it was "believable", certainly had the immersion factor, and could still be played as a shoot-em-up if the player wanted to. Civ5 has dumped Immersion Empire building, and gone for simplistic shoot-em-up because thats the bigger commercial market.

They will live off the Franhcise past reputation for the duration of Civ5 as people can still be conned into believing they are empire building - because thats traditionally what the Franchise did, so they play with that assumption. It will not be long before the simplistic structure of the game comes through after many tries with it, and it dawns on people the shallow level of the game now. Goodbye Civ6, will never happen, the shoot-em-up Brigade will either finally desert the Franchise, or push it into ever more stupid robots and super heros.

As it is currently, it will always suit the shoot-em-up genre of player, and thats fine, nothing wrong with shoot-em-ups if thats what you want. But as empire building - Civ5 is not. I dont blame Sid for letting go to commercial interests and taking a back seat, life is for living, and he put his heart and sole into the Franchise for over 20 years, he deserves his reward and I hope his opportunity to take more leisure time and a more self orientated life is successful, he has earned it.

Meanwhile back at the Franchise, the shoot-em-up developers are tearing down his creation because they know 70% of the market place out there wants simplistic dramatic shoot-em-ups. Using the brain to play sophisticated genuine strategy games is not commercially popular. Its been a great 20+ year ride, but its a shame that dumb commercialism has taken over and not allowed the Immersive Empire Building tenants to be built on and further improved. It was a great ride while it lasted.

Nothing wrong with shoot-em-ups if thats what you want. Its just real sad that the last game Franchise in the marketplace that was slowly developing ever better genuine strategy and empire building games has now bee taken over by shoot-em-up mentality. I hope in the end we see another come to market, it certainly will not be Civ6, the latter will never be built - shoot-em-ups have short time spans as they have little to hold long term loyalty, and have to descend into mega robots and super heros to sell the next version.

Sid did a marvellous job for over 20 years and has my undying respect for what he did. Its sad to see his creation butchered, but he does deserve some life to himself, and I dont blame him for selling out to commercial interests and letting them mess with the Franchise. I hope he enjoys his more abundant free time and personal choice he now has, he deserves it after his fantastic contribution to the gaming world.

Regards
Zy

 

[vandyr]

Nothing wrong with shoot-em-ups if thats what you want. Its just real sad that the last game Franchise in the marketplace that was slowly developing ever better genuine strategy and empire building games has now bee taken over by shoot-em-up mentality.
Regards
Zy

I really think you're massively overexaggerating the difference between the two games.