Thoughts on the Strongest Leader in Warlords

[morahed18]

It seems as though Sid Meier has deliberately downshifted most of the top tier leaders available on the original Civ IV format. Washington, who was always the top dog for financial dominance, has been completely revamped. While his two new traits appear to have considerable synergy (simultaneous happiness and health bonusus, allowing for rapid development of cities), it will be interesting to see if it can be exploited to the same degree as the Financial/Organized combo.

Gandhi, who was considered by many to be the ideal leader for obtaining religious dominance, has been knocked down a serious peg by losing the industrious trait.

Frederick, formerly rivaled only by Louis XIV as the top leader for cultural victory, was knocked back into the pack when he went from creative to organized.

Qin Shi Huang, a former favorite among many simply for having arguably the two most overpowered traits (industrious and financial), has now taken on the protective trait (while Huayna Capac has stepped up to a tier 1 leader by taking on the industrious-financial combo).

So now that most of the overpowered leaders have been adjusted in some way, who will emerge as the most commonly exploited tier 1 leader? My money is on Agustus. City upkeep cost was always the only thing that kept creative leaders from jumping out to an unsurmountable lead early in the game, and Rome is the only civ to boast a organized leader capable of offsetting the city upkeep cost. I always assumed that a creative-organized leader was intentionally avoided by Sid because of the overwhelming synergy between the two traits (I made a similar assumption about the avoidance of a philosophical-industrious leader - which has so far held true). The creative trait allows a civ to expand their borders early on with blistering speed. In combination with half cost courthouses, Rome will now have the ability to spread their cities much further apart early on, claiming resources and sheer land mass with rediculous efficiancy. This makes Agustus my pick as the new top dog. Any thoughts?

 

[DigitalBoy]

I think the new Julius Caesar will be a monster. Everything about him screams early land grab. Organized for easier maintenance of cities. Imperialistic for faster expansion. And, of course, the Praetorian for a killer edge in early warfare.

 

[Qwack]

Cyrus looks extremely overpowered from a statistical point of view. Ill have to play him to find out more though, most likely my next game in warlords will be with him.

Immortals have 8 strength against axeman and 6 against archers. Cost is a measly 25. 2 Movement. Perfect unit for an early rush.

Phase1
Imperialistic means you can have a good chance to get out 3 cities on emperor+ difficulty before you start getting squeezed in. these cities allow you to grab copper/horses. When the war starts, you destroy the first AI relatively easily and fast, charismatic combats war weariness to a certain extent. You probably also spawn your first great general at this point. Probably used on warlord, the 20 XP is big for charismatic, since they need -25% xp to promote.

Phase 2: War #2 most likely., immortals have a huge lifespan so you can continue using them, along with the ultra promoted units you probably have by now, with construction and cat's it should be much of a problem taking some more cities.

Phase 3: Improve economy phase. UB comes into play. Charismatic and +2 health from grocer leads to monster cities. Combine this with the large amount of land you probably have in the first 2 phases means you can pretty much walk to any victory condition.

I think this will be a popular strategy on high difficulty games, but even with a bad start the 2 traits which are strong enough on thier own will lead to a powerful leader. Shaka and Cyrus in a team in MP is looking pretty interesting also.

 

[armathas]

Just finished a game with Julius, and wow..unbelievable. His combination is positively ruthless. With Stonhenge (for a lil culture) my borders expanded uber fast. I do believe however that the great wall is waaay to good..had a huge army for conquest as I needed significantly less units for barbarian defense.
btw Large map/Epic speed. (Think I need to bump up from Noble diff)

 

[uberfish]

The strongest leader for cultural victories was always Elizabeth, not Louis. She probably still is, having bonuses to great artist generation AND cottages is too hard to beat.

Likewise the best religious leader was Saladin since with philosophical he could spawn prophets more quickly than any of the other Spiritual leaders, it's now Gandhi since he inherited those traits.

China probably is a medieval terror now. With their UU being enhanced by protective trait, and the new trebuchet, they can wreak havoc without ever needing to build a maceman.

Julius, er... didn't need a boost although Imperialistic certainly is very fitting.

 

[Lance of Llanwy]

The strongest leader for cultural victories was always Elizabeth, not Louis. She probably still is, having bonuses to great artist generation AND cottages is too hard to beat.

Likewise the best religious leader was Saladin since with philosophical he could spawn prophets more quickly than any of the other Spiritual leaders, it's now Gandhi since he inherited those traits.

China probably is a medieval terror now. With their UU being enhanced by protective trait, and the new trebuchet, they can wreak havoc without ever needing to build a maceman.

Julius, er... didn't need a boost although Imperialistic certainly is very fitting.

That's actually more accurate. The principal weapon of the Chinese military was nearly always either the bow, the crossbow, or both. They used others, obviously, but their was always emphasized...

 

[NaZdReG]

don't know too much about the single player balance, i've been playing a ton of MP..

yeah cyrus rocks but he can EASILY be countered if you go all immortals. anybody who builds spears will give you a REALLY hard time.. especially greece or zulu.

speaking of zulu.. the impi has won me many games already. if your team is only 1 horse UU and you manage to find 2 horse on your side... impis and chariots is REALLY tough to deal with.. (they both have 2 move)

doesnt do too much against cities at first.. but you can count on them not having any improved tiles or workers out in their borders

korea is a beast in MP.. most team games we end up going for archery anyway (keshiks and such) and protective archers are REALLY hard to deal with early in the game.. once you get to cats an ELEPHANT AND HWACHA attack will tend to steamroll ppl (especially escorted by a zulu stack)

the romans i've seen so far are okay.. prats were increased in cost so you don't see as many of them.. and they now need to be escorted by chariots to protect them from axemen.

mongolia is still pretty damn brutal. keshiks coming out with 7 exp (3 from barraks 4 from their UB) is enough to give them str 1 and then save the other promo (either anti archer or anti melee) depending on what you face with the stack.

japanese are also really good w/ the protective trait. you see nothing but well promoted axemen/spears and protective archers in the early game.

haven't seen much from carthage or some of the other civs.. but that should still be enough to chew on

NaZ

 

[mattspoker]

Im still undecided between Aug or Jul for a Roman leader. The fast settler for julius makes it easier to get to 3 cities. Thats when I start massing Praetorians.
But you still have to wait for the 3rd city tile for iron working to make sure you get it in. WIth Augustus being creative, you can expand to 3 much faster because you have so much more land inside cultural boundaires. The EV of hitting iron by accident while having 3 cites ready faster is NICE. If I have stone I do try for the great wall. It gives Aug the faster great generals you get from julius. which is nice to promote up a stack. I havent needed or managed to get a combat VI guy yet, but I can only imagine what he can knock over. I havent thought about trying for stonehenge for julius yet. I usually dont bother with masonry with him. Unless I have good stone or marble. The difficulty of an Immortal wonder is whats holding me to julius. I hate almost getting the great wall up. Because the expanded borders of augustus means more and faster barbs.

 

[DigitalBoy]

I havent needed or managed to get a combat VI guy yet, but I can only imagine what he can knock over.

In my single-player game, I have a 40XP maceman lead by a warlord: Combat I through VI, plus leadership (I still can't decide if the leadership promotion is worth it, since each additional promotion costs 10+ experience). He's pretty powerful, but can still take 50% damage in a fight where he has 99% chance of winning. Oh well, as soon as I get rifling, it'll be pretty hard for my rivals to send anything against a Rifleman with +75% strength (I have a pretty large tech lead, so they'll still be using medieval units by then).

 

[PMabey]

i just finished a game on monarch difficulty with cyrus. i was able 2 take out 2 civs in classical era and take their land. (we were on contient by ourselves) i easily beat others on tech race and won by space race. btw i used 2 struggle on monarch in civ 4 as english so i think cyrus is v good leader. i also think u can do a lot more strategies now, with new traits and buildings. e.g do u want aggressive (free promotion) charismatic (less xp needed) or imperialistic (more warlords) if u want 2 be a warmonger. Huayna Capac looks very good. can found religion early as well.

 

[facistal]

I gotta give it to Ramsesses. I agree that Gahndi's spirtual and industrious combo was right up there for me, and its is back with the new Egytian leader. On top of that, the newly beefed up chariot class (100% vs Axemen) makes the war chariot argualbly the best UU this side of prets. He starts with agriculure and the wheel allowing for early growth and one of the two techs you need to access the UU. To top it all off Ramsesses II is now the #1 and unquestioned king of the CS sling shot. The Obliesk (allowing two priests) will allow you to get a very early prophet as long as you a two combo in your capital that will support 8 food or more, which you frequently will (espescially sice you start with agriculture) Rush to size four on your way to priesthood
and you should be able to run two priests and get a prophet in time to grab CoL ahead of you half price oracle (Industrious) without even having to build stonehenge. Incidentaly the fact that you dont need to build stonehenge and that you get a bonus on the oracle you can actually skip the mining > BW path if you research husbandry (which you need for wiriting anyway) and get horses. Once you complete the slingshot you are only one tech form alaphabet and you pick all that important stuff in one swoop.

Anyway, I think ramsesses II give you a ton of options, and if are lucky enough to get horses, he is a monster.

The UB's are my favorite addition - The obliesk, the sacrifical altar, and the terrace are awesome and really change the feel of their respective civs.

 

[jimbob27]

The vikings are very good on an archipelago map.

They start with fishing and (not so good) hunting. They're financial which is always good when you've got lots of costal cities. Their unique building gives costal units an extra MP, so you've got a very good chance of circumnavigating and ending up with +2MP for your ships. They have a very good UU which has free amphibious, and they're agressive as well, so you can build a nice powerful army when you've got loads of low-production costal cities.

 

[MD-GG]

I think Stalin is great as a military powerhouse.

 

[Brutus2]

I'm enjoying the Ottomans. Expansive is just great as happiness seems easier to increase then health, my cities just grow and grow and almost never have issues. Organized is great too. I have an insane income while running 100% science and having loads of units "overseas" which makes me think financial trait is not so vital.

The unique building is fantastic, the Hamman replaces Aqueduct and adds plus 2 to both Health and Happiness! Like I said, cities just grow and grow with little trouble.

Also, I found the Jannisary UU to be very useful in that it comes at a good time right when my cities are established enough that I am ready to start pumping out units and go to war! The +25% vs Melee, Archer and Mounted makes them the Jack of all Trades of combat units.

They also start with Agriculture and The Wheel so you can hook up farm resources right away.

 

[Uty]

I second that. I'm playing as the Ottomans and they're a great civ. The organized/expansive combo can be used to make a large empire with large cities. The UB's +2 happiness (on top of the regular aqueduct's +2 health) will help your cities grow even more.

If you play your cards right, this huge empire of yours will have quite the tech lead. If you rush to Gunpowder your UU will give you a real edge against the fuedal armies of your opponents.

 

[PMabey]

im unsure about ottomans. yes they have a great ub but normally musketman are obselete very quickly so janissary may not be that good although its stats are great. i dont normally bee-line 4 gunpowder so u may be able to make uu last longer. exp is a weak trait, i think and i know many people dont like organized. i think there are stronger civs

 

[mattspoker]

im unsure about ottomans. yes they have a great ub but normally musketman are obselete very quickly so janissary may not be that good although its stats are great. i dont normally bee-line 4 gunpowder so u may be able to make uu last longer. exp is a weak trait, i think and i know many people dont like organized. i think there are stronger civs

What he is saying is Beeline gunpowder and dont trade it. Especially if you dont use printing press or scientific method as tech trade bait at a higher levels. You can get ahead of the AI technically in one line, but you neglect other areas. Two things, they are mounted so they are mobile. You have in theory a large empire so you can ratchet up production quickly and use a blitz. Then chopping out the UB should give you some pretty intact large cities that come online almost paying for themselves. Youre already on a military tech beeline, and conquering more mature cities should give you the gold to keep on researching while in deficit. Should be a self perpetuating expansion.

 

[The Lardossen]

So far I like Brennus, from Carthiginia (?spell?).

Charismatic, to counter early unhappiness from whipping and a lack of happiness resources. If you're able to get Stonehenge (very possible even on the highest levels) your bonus is triple:

- The free monuments give one extra happiness due to Charismatic
- You'll have the same border growth as a Creative civ
- An early GP is guaranteed

Financial for.....well should I still have to explain?

Tech path:

BW -> MY -> RO

The UU is early and sucks. The Mali kind of problem....only worse. A good reason to never mess with HR until Knights.


Still, a good Axerush can be whipped up fast, will not get your pop unhappy once with Charismatic especially with Stonehenge, and Financial makes sure you can afford it all.

 

[moggydave]

Regarding the previous post, I think you are referring to Hanibal of Carthage. Brennus is of the Celts.


I havn't got warlords yet but I am trying to compile a democratically made list of the best leaders in the game using a tier system. Votes have been slow so far so please check out the link in my signature and vote now.

 

[Norseman2]

Regarding the previous post, I think you are referring to Hanibal of Carthage. Brennus is of the Celts.


I havn't got warlords yet but I am trying to compile a democratically made list of the best leaders in the game using a tier system. Votes have been slow so far so please check out the link in my signature and vote now.

It might be slow because people can't see the poll. If there is one. All I can see on that is your post.

As to the above, I agree with the Ottomans making an excellent conquest or domination civ. I tried playing on a huge terra, and with 18 civilizations an you can imagine things got kind of cramped. Once I got my Janissaries, I was able to loosen things up a bit and stretch out. Unfortunately, gunpowder spread pretty quickly, so my UU didn't last long. It got me a couple of civilizations, but that was more than enough. Each time I got a new gunpowder unit, I'd mass produce it and throw it at the civs that hadn't upgraded their armies. It got me a lot of vassals and territory, and it looks like my win is pretty secure.