Tip: Control cultural border expansion

[Rathelon]

Some of you may have already noticed this, but I thought I'd post to let others know. You can influence where your border pops by buying tiles. Each time you purchase a tile, the purple 'next expansion' tiles can change. This can help you get resources that are in the 3rd ring, by buying a tile adjacent to them, and most of the time it will then switch the purple tile to the resource tile and that will be your next pop.

 

[Aldor]

Yes that works fairly well. I still wonder sometimes about the way the city priorizes tiles...nice fish resources (3rd ring) are ignored although they could be gained with the next expansion, and instead the city gets tundra or desert tiles in the second ring...

 

[DrakenKin]

There is a culture cost to the tiles, similar to the gold cost. (As proven by the Angkor Wat bonus.)

A tile farther away will be more expensive, so this might explain why a city will expand to a nearby tile of a lesser value instead of a tile 3 rings away that is more useful but also a lot more expensive.

 

[Aldor]

There is a culture cost to the tiles, similar to the gold cost. (As proven by the Angkor Wat bonus.)

A tile farther away will be more expensive, so this might explain why a city will expand to a nearby tile of a lesser value instead of a tile 3 rings away that is more useful but also a lot more expensive.

Maybe, but I think its non-intuitive. After all, we have the culture-bucket, and if that is full, the city adds a new tile...it should add the best available tile.

I don't mind the culture cost going up with each culturally "bought" tile, but it should choose the best available tiles.

 

[Horserush]

It seems to me that the cultural pop will always pick the least expensive tile.

 

[Rathelon]

It seems to me that the cultural pop will always pick the least expensive tile.

Not from my experience. I've had 3rd ring pops quite often using the method above, even when I had plenty of non-resource 2nd ring tiles still unclaimed.

 

[Jamuka]

The real question is: how do I get it to pick hill tiles, ever?

 

[mzprox]

The cost depends on other things than how far is the tile from the center. (I believe hills and forests cost more for example) I think the expansion is usually (or always?) one of the cheapest tiles.
I've noticed that after turn by turn the cost of the tile can increase and decrease as well.. I don't know how exactly.

 

[Horserush]

Not from my experience. I've had 3rd ring pops quite often using the method above, even when I had plenty of non-resource 2nd ring tiles still unclaimed.

Did you check the cost of buying the tile before your culture popped it? I'll bet that it was still the cheapest tile.

 

[Lyoncet]

The cost depends on other things than how far is the tile from the center. (I believe hills and forests cost more for example) I think the expansion is usually (or always?) one of the cheapest tiles.

Usually, although it seems like each time a tile is passed by for being rough, it becomes more likely to be popped next time. On top of that, there's one common exception: if a tile with any resource can be popped, it will. Even if it's in the third ring and the second hasn't been filled out (as long as one bordering tile has already been acquired).

 

[SilverKnight]

Throwing in my two cents, the cost seems to be reduced if the tile in question (hills and/or forest, mountain for Machu Picchu etc) is surrounded. For instance a forest in the 2nd ring is more likely to be folded in if your borders are on 3 or 4 of its sides already.

SilverKnight

 

[CopterGuy]

Can't do much about hills, but chopping a forest to flatland will make it more likely to be picked if it's a tie between several tiles of rough terrain. I've found this to be useful if say, there's a tie between three rough tiles but one of them has a resource in the third ring beyond. Chop the forest to make that the next tile claimed, opening it up to hopefully pick the resource tile on the following turn.

 

[Druin]

I find that the logic is as follows:

1. Is there a tile with a strat resource on it? y -> choose, n-> next
2. Is there a tile with a resource on it? y -> choose, n -> next
3. What is the cheapest tile to purchase? there is only 1 such tile -> choose, there are several tiles in a tie -> next
4. Which tile has the highest total yield? choose tile with highest, repeat from 1.

Because hills and forests are expensive, and because tiles you don't own decrease in cost based on how many tiles you DO own are touching them, the order of acquisition goes:

1. Strat
2. Lux
3. plains/grass + river
4. plains/grass
5. forest/hills with most culture pressure and/or +river in ascending order of cost

Note1: I don't know how the game factors water tiles.

Note2: I don't know if it prefers lux > strat resources but I assume it does because they are limited in quantity and are required for production of things, thus tend to be a higher priority.

Note3: I am unsure how the game treats things like forest+deer. It is a high yield tile but forests are expensive ... I will try to test further to get a better answer.

Note4: I assume the game checks the cost/tile function when there are ties in the first several layers of choice as well as the last several.

 

[aguds]

The real question is: how do I get it to pick hill tiles, ever?

bump

I wonder that too. It seems they are the most expensive tiles, culture-wise. Maybe that.

 

[gaiko]

In addition, is there a way to "turn off" CP expenditure? I like to play a quasi-ICS style, meaning that the cities border each other inner hex rings, and the second ring is instantly "bought" by the next city placement, so if I need a resource hex in a second ring, I always buy it, and can since I also TP spam all the cities.

For this same reason I want to save every last CP for SPs, and CP border pops are a waste. Any clues?

 

[Jharii]

Follow me on this theory... I think popping tiles is a bit more "organic" than systematic. At least the engine tries to replicate organic expansion.

All tiles that are adjacent to owned tiles are continuously getting a portion of culture, with the two or three "best" prospects getting a higher percentage of culture. Maybe it's 30-15-10 then split the remaining 45 equally. The numbers are just used for explanation. Either way, all tiles are getting SOMETHING each turn.

So, in turn 1, Tile 1 gets 30, Tile 2 gets 15, Tile 3 gets 10, the other 9 get 5 points each.
Turn 2, Tile 1 is at 60, Tile 2 is at 30, Tile 3 is at 20, the other 9 are at 10 points each.
Turn 3, Tile 1 is at 90, Tile 2 is at 45, Tile 3 is at 30, the other 9 are at 15 points each.
Turn 4, Tile 1 pops at 120, Tile 2 is at 60, Tile 3 is at 40, the other 9 are at 20 points each.

Add 3 more tiles to the mix. One of which is a great tile that replaces Tile 1. Meanwhile, Tile 2 and Tile 3 already have points accumulated, but the new Tile 1 still gets the biggest percentage.

The next turn, Tile 1 (new) is at 30, Tile 2 is at 75, Tile 3 is at 50, the other 11 tiles are at 24 points each.
And so on...
___

Again, the numbers are fictitious and exaggerated to explain the theory. But to me, it seems like all tiles get a steady flow of culture, which is why some tiles that you would think would pop do not. If they are in that lower tier the entire time, they are getting the least amount of points per turn.

This is an effort for Civ to replicate organic expansion, as people are going to "tend" to flock to where the "jobs" are (i.e. better tiles), but they will still expand outwards from all tiles, even if the jobs suck.

 

[Druin]

In addition, is there a way to "turn off" CP expenditure? I like to play a quasi-ICS style, meaning that the cities border each other inner hex rings, and the second ring is instantly "bought" by the next city placement, so if I need a resource hex in a second ring, I always buy it, and can since I also TP spam all the cities.

For this same reason I want to save every last CP for SPs, and CP border pops are a waste. Any clues?

Errrr the culture your city generates is put BOTH into the SP pool and into the tile-bucket. It is not split between the two in any way. By turning off the tile bucket you would purely lose additional hexes and there would be zero gain to your gameplay.

Follow me on this theory... I think popping tiles is a bit more "organic" than systematic. At least the engine tries to replicate organic expansion.

All tiles that are adjacent to owned tiles are continuously getting a portion of culture, with the two or three "best" prospects getting a higher percentage of culture. Maybe it's 30-15-10 then split the remaining 45 equally. The numbers are just used for explanation. Either way, all tiles are getting SOMETHING each turn.

So, in turn 1, Tile 1 gets 30, Tile 2 gets 15, Tile 3 gets 10, the other 9 get 5 points each.
Turn 2, Tile 1 is at 60, Tile 2 is at 30, Tile 3 is at 20, the other 9 are at 10 points each.
Turn 3, Tile 1 is at 90, Tile 2 is at 45, Tile 3 is at 30, the other 9 are at 15 points each.
Turn 4, Tile 1 pops at 120, Tile 2 is at 60, Tile 3 is at 40, the other 9 are at 20 points each.

Add 3 more tiles to the mix. One of which is a great tile that replaces Tile 1. Meanwhile, Tile 2 and Tile 3 already have points accumulated, but the new Tile 1 still gets the biggest percentage.

The next turn, Tile 1 (new) is at 30, Tile 2 is at 75, Tile 3 is at 50, the other 11 tiles are at 24 points each.
And so on...
___

Again, the numbers are fictitious and exaggerated to explain the theory. But to me, it seems like all tiles get a steady flow of culture, which is why some tiles that you would think would pop do not. If they are in that lower tier the entire time, they are getting the least amount of points per turn.

This is an effort for Civ to replicate organic expansion, as people are going to "tend" to flock to where the "jobs" are (i.e. better tiles), but they will still expand outwards from all tiles, even if the jobs suck.

Although this is a really neat idea, I would be extremely surprised if it is true. A good counter-example would be this: I could spend 20 turns and ALMOST acquire a random tile out of three, theoretically building up culture in those three, then at the last moment if I bought a tile that opened a path to a luxury resource, the very next turn I would acquire the lux resource instead of the other ones despite that lux resource having zero acquired culture.

This seems to follow a binary logic structure instead of an organic structure format.

 

[Johnpecan]

Shouldn't there just be an option to manually select which tile your culture is working on??

The first time I played I looked for a long time because it doesn't make sense why you can't choose.

 

[Mannu]

It's also difficult to expand across a river. It likes to treat rivers as natural boundaries (which is proper). I'm not sure if a bridge has any effect. I may try that out.

Also, it's been my experience that clearing a marsh (maybe also a forest?) will make a tile cheaper to acquire.

 

[E66man]

I had a couple of games where it seemed to me your selected city focus was also having an influence, but I didn't try to fully test that theory.