TJS1 -- Going on the Pill-age

[Nathiri]

I havent ended the turn yet, but I looked over the land and looked back at posts. I have rushed a few projects and plan to get a 2 boats shipped from our east to some place next turn. I think Cempoala (Aztec) is a good place. That could be defended I think and I can attack it in the next couple turns, though I dont know the garrison there and if 4 berserks can take it.

So text turn you want me to take Mecca and not waste turns going around the river? The 2 armies at Baghdad will heal and should be operational in a couple turns.

 

[tjs282]

Well the galley has to be returned to the coast I think for healing for the berserk and reinforcements.

Yes, as you deduced -- that Galley just fled the siege of Nicopolis, and I would suggest bringing it down towards Baghdad/Medina (we still have an RoP with Ozzie), and offloading the Settler onto a safe tile, to be used as a 'combat-Settler' (if needed -- maybe on the Hill 3SW of Medina, to get closer to Damascus), or simply to fill in a gap. Injured units seem able to heal while aboard ship(?), so the Galley could sail over to e.g. Hareid or Kufah, pick up another vZerk, and then head north again -- by the time it reaches a suitable target, the eZerk should be back up to strength.

I havent ended the turn yet, but I looked over the land and looked back at posts. I have rushed a few projects and plan to get a 2 boats shipped from our east to some place next turn. I think Cempoala (Aztec) is a good place. That could be defended I think and I can attack it in the next couple turns, though I dont know the garrison there and if 4 berserks can take it.

The Aztecs still have Jags running around (and I think they might also have Horses), so don't worry too much about defending the first couple of Aztec towns you grab -- just capture them, dock your boats, fortify any Zerks with available MP, and wait 1T. If Aztec units arrive at the town gates over the IBT, and you don't have enough healthy Zerks to fight them all off, put them back on their boats, gift the town away (to Hannibal?), and move on to the next one, which should leave the Aztec-stack stranded (Monty and Hanni don't have an RoP, IIRC). Most of the Aztec towns are coastal, so sailing once round their island should be enough to cripple them permanently. Once you have their last couple of coastal towns, you can land some Knights/Muskets and press inland.

So text turn you want me to take Mecca and not waste turns going around the river? The 2 armies at Baghdad will heal and should be operational in a couple turns.

While it would certainly be preferable to attack Mecca from our side of the border with the M=3 Knight-Armies, you may need those Armies (back) on the northern front very soon, to deal with (or at least, ZoC-damage) the incoming Byzzie-stack last seen near Tver (Dora and Abu do have an RoP)...

Hmmm... some/most of those units in the M=2 stack still have MP, I think? If so, on reflection, I'd start moving them (all) 1S on this turn to keep the defensive advantage, then attack going 1SW-1S next turn, so you won't be attacking from across a river. I wouldn't risk the Armies on the first sally, though -- while Armies may retreat if fighting M=1 units, they are a lot more valuable than v+eKnights.

So once you're in position, I'd throw some/all of the vKnights in first, to get some idea of what you're facing -- if you're lucky, you might even kill a Spear or two, but you should at least knock some HP off them. Then follow up with the Armies if you can now see an injured (r/v)Spear, or the eKnights if you're still looking at full-strength Spears (especially if veteran). Yes, you will probably lose some units, which is why I would lead with the vKnights, since they are the least valuable (and if any Knights retreat, then once the city is ours, you can run them back to Medina to heal in the Rax that the nearby Slaves are chopping for). If it takes more than 1T to capture Mecca, you'll probably want the Armies to lead the second assault, and you may also want to keep a healthy v/eKnight (or 2) to defend them.

Damascus is at Pop7, so once Mecca is ours, it will likely become the next Arab capital -- but it is unlikely to be as heavily defended as Mecca, so you should be able to use Zerk-raids to take it and all the remaining Arab towns (but be sure to take Aden before you capture the last mainland-town).

 

[robbus]

Maps from our intrepid Viking scouts.

Arabia, Aztecia, Byzantium

 

[Nathiri]

Where would you like me to rush The Pentagon? A new MGL is at Mecca

 

[Elephantium]

Kufah or Basra, I'd say. Unless Mecca has no flip risk anymore...it would be annoying to lose Pentagon in a flip.

 

[Nathiri]

Currently on turn 185 now.

 

[choxorn]

I'd go with Kufah, its probably safer.

 

[Nathiri]

I finished my turns

Spoiler Turns 180-190 :

Pre
Rushed a few projects and moved 4 knights closer to Mecca.

IBT
Lost a galley south of Nicomedia from Dromon, but not the one with the settler and a weak berserk. A couple dromons bombarded our coastline and our units at Breda.

2 Byzantine Horsemen appear by Baghdad.

Turn 181
Used 2 berserks and took Breda with no losses.

Loaded 2 galleys on our east coast, went to Aztec coast. I decided to send the galley that was loaded near to Amsterdam towards the Aztecs.

Sent the 4 knights that I moved the previous turn on Mecca, and killed all 4 spearman with no losses, leaving 1 archer. I then sent the remaining knight under the 2 armies to finish it off and it then created yet another military leader - and the Great Wall is ours. I send the 9hp berserk army up to kill one of the byzantine horsemen and then used the knight army from Badgdad to take care of the 2nd horseman and then sent it back to Baghdad.

Took the boat loaded with 2 berserks by Fustat and took Aden (2 spearman killed). I then used the other boat with 1 berserk to Khurasan and also took that as there was only 1 spearman.

Sent the 2 loaded boats to Chalcedon, killed a musket and a spearman and took the city, but lost a berserk in the process. I gifted Chalcedon to the Ottomans as it was not defendable and a Byz longbowman lurking outside the city.

I took Atzcapotzalco with the 2 berserks in the ship by Delft. I decide to gift Atzca to Carthage since there was just a 2hp berserk in there, but I dont think I would need to do that for the next ones.

After consulting with Elephantium, I send the MGL to Kufah and rush the Pentagon there.

Turn 182
Took Cempoala with a loss of 1 berserk. Also took Tula. Since gems was hooked I thought I could reduce luxury rate to 10% and I put an entertainer at Karasjok back to work, and everything seemed okay with all happy and unhappy even.

Turn 183
Karasjok disorders...

Killed most of the Byz stack that appeared at Baghdad the IBT. There was a spearman, longbowman, an Ancient Cavalry, and an archer, now only an archer remains, and I decide to leave it till then next turn as I would of had to use a remaining charge on one of the armies and I wanted to avoid leaving them vulnerable.

With the boats returning from Chalcedon, I then sent them back up to Byz waters as 2 more ships come to reinforce and theres enough troops there.

Turn 184
I kill Byzantine Archer and an Arab archer that was also there. I then sent a knight and a berserk army up and took Muscat.

I take Dyrrachium with 1 berserk loss. This city seems defensible at the moment since it has hills so they cant attack it fast.

I hit Xochialco with 2 Berserks, but it is not taken yet, should be next turn.

Turn 185
These blasted Dromons! Lost a galley at Breda figured it was safe in the city, but the 2 berserks inside didnt die with it.

Mansura is taken. Byz horsemen stack by Muscat is being dealt with.

Took Damascus with 1 vKnight loss.

Xochialco falls, creating yet another MGL in the process. Tamuin also falls.

Nicaea falls.

Teotihuacan falls.

Turn 186
Bukhara falls making the Arabs no more.

Turn 187
Moscow overthrows. It still remains in the Ottoman's hands.

Iconium falls.

Turn 188
Ancyra falls.

Texcoco falls.

Turn 189
I see Byzantine stack of spears, archers and longbowman just outside Tver on way to Iconium.

Not much else happened. There are some longbow resistance on the Aztec island I'm dealing with outside Teotihuacan

Turn 190
The Byzantines finally send a knight to Nicaea killing our knight that was defending it (there was a horseman in there as well). Up until this point, there was no attack on our Byzantine cities up there. Reinforcements are arriving within another turn to push further in, including two muskets. The waters between Dyrrachium and Nicaea are fairly safe for the time being. Most of our armies are coming up the thin Arab ithmus. We may want to sign a right of passage with Carthage, unless we take their cities, in order to get them up to the Byzantines. I did make a Berserk army on the Aztec island and two berserks are in there currently.

Tzintzuntzen falls. Tepexpan falls (small Aztec island west of former Arabs).

Sorry If I didnt elaborate as much as you wanted. I didnt see that much to write about. So mostly good things happened I would say.

Spoiler Screenshots :

I would of posted this last night, but I had power outage most of the evening, besides most of the afternoon.

 

[tjs282]

Looks like excellent progress! Another 2 Civs off the board, and the Byzzies seem to be running out of units -- I don't know what Dora was doing with that M=1 stack that is still hanging around between Tver and Iconium -- it should have got to your frontline long before now. I can only guess that Dora was getting flustered, and was sending it north and then south again, as her target priorities changed turn-by-turn. Nice also to know that Moscow's citizens already yearn to join us -- but we don't want them yet...

Only one thing I would have done different (not that it really matters): I would have preferred to put the Pentagon in a landlocked town -- but I saw that question too late to add any useful input. And one criticism, assuming those screenies are taken from the end of the 750 AD turn: I'm not happy about having those 3 Zerks (including 2 Elites, although they might just have got promoted?) left exposed outside the newly captured towns, because we now can't protect them from (ACav or LBM) attacks over the IBT -- which they will likely lose. We're >10T out of the GA, so rushing replacements is going to be that much more expensive (and getting the replacements re-promoted is going to take more time).

@robbus:

As a general rule for invasions, it's preferable to keep M=1 units for attacking incoming stacks, because a winning unit will then be forced to 'retreat' from the remaining stacked unit(s); only chase strays (on your own territory) using M≥2 units (which can still retreat after making the kill). And while an enemy still has units to burn, M=1 units should never be chasing strays across hostile borders -- not even for easy kills -- because even if they win, on their next turn, all they can do is cross back, they won't be able to reach a town, i.e. they're left exposed for 2 IBTs, not just one. Admittedly, apart from the Zerk-Army in Xochicalco (which should be pumped up to full strength -- with 2 units loaded it's already unshippable in a Galley, so it might as well be as strong as possible), we appear to have no M=2 units in Azteca yet. We should ship some Knights over there -- since our core can (rush)build Knights as fast/easily as Zerks, there's no reason why we shouldn't switch a few Zerk-builds in progress. We'll want Knights (or Cavs, once Ozzie + Hanni get MilTrad for us!) for our offshore mop-up phase anyway...

On which subject, how are our Domination-limits looking? Now that we've started on Azteca without razing the towns, is Conquest still going to be a feasible option? Are we going to have to garrison all our Aztec-invaders in Tenochtitlan (once we have it), gift away the more useless coastal (Tundra) towns to Hanni to reduce our territorial control, then take them back later? Or should we just (Worker-)abandon everything in Azteca once we start on Carthage?

Lanz, what are your plans?

 

[Nathiri]

Looks like excellent progress! Another 2 Civs off the board, and the Byzzies seem to be running out of units -- I don't know what Dora was doing with that M=1 stack that is still hanging around between Tver and Iconium -- it should have got to your frontline long before now. I can only guess that Dora was getting flustered, and was sending it north and then south again, as her target priorities changed turn-by-turn. Nice also to know that Moscow's citizens already yearn to join us -- but we don't want them yet...

Only one thing I would have done different (not that it really matters): I would have preferred to put the Pentagon in a landlocked town -- but I saw that question too late to add any useful input. And one criticism, assuming those screenies are taken from the end of the 750 AD turn: I'm not happy about having those 3 Zerks (including 2 Elites, although they might just have got promoted?) left exposed outside the newly captured towns, because we now can't protect them from (ACav or LBM) attacks over the IBT -- which they will likely lose. We're >10T out of the GA, so rushing replacements is going to be that much more expensive (and getting the replacements re-promoted is going to take more time).

@robbus:

As a general rule for invasions, it's preferable to keep M=1 units for attacking incoming stacks, because a winning unit will then be forced to 'retreat' from the remaining stacked unit(s); only chase strays (on your own territory) using M≥2 units (which can still retreat after making the kill). And while an enemy still has units to burn, M=1 units should never be chasing strays across hostile borders -- not even for easy kills -- because even if they win, on their next turn, all they can do is cross back, they won't be able to reach a town, i.e. they're left exposed for 2 IBTs, not just one. Admittedly, apart from the Zerk-Army in Xochicalco (which should be pumped up to full strength -- with 2 units loaded it's already unshippable in a Galley, so it might as well be as strong as possible), we appear to have no M=2 units in Azteca yet. We should ship some Knights over there -- since our core can (rush)build Knights as fast/easily as Zerks, there's no reason why we shouldn't switch a few Zerk-builds in progress. We'll want Knights (or Cavs, once Ozzie + Hanni get MilTrad for us!) for our offshore mop-up phase anyway...

On which subject, how are our Domination-limits looking? Now that we've started on Azteca without razing the towns, is Conquest still going to be a feasible option? Are we going to have to garrison all our Aztec-invaders in Tenochtitlan (once we have it), gift away the more useless coastal (Tundra) towns to Hanni to reduce our territorial control, then take them back later? Or should we just (Worker-)abandon everything in Azteca once we start on Carthage?

Lanz, what are your plans?

There was an initial stack that I killed of the Byzantines, this is slightly bigger than the previous.

The reason those berserks are exposed in the Aztec area is because they were killing longbowmen and I figured attacking was better than defending and I have already killed quite a few so their units (which are minimal anyway) should be diminishing. There was one next to the city, and then directly in their border. If I just killed the one by the city, that would of died to the next longbowman there, so I went and killed both. But yeah I know what you mean about using 2 movement units, as you would see about me not wanting to use all the charges on the armies in a certain case. Same for the Byzantines, but that was a Knight that had killed our only Knight there and had 4hp, so an ordinary horseman would of not killed it.

We got a couple knights and musketmen on the way to the Byzantines. But yeah you can rush a few more in our core for the Aztecs. I did always try to keep one city on Knights, but they were mostly used for the Arabs at the time and one for the St Peters Knight Army.

 

[Elephantium]

@tjs, why is it better to put Pentagon in a landlocked town? I didn't figure it would matter (and in hindsight, I shouldn't have worried about flip risks! Mecca would have been the better site).

@Nathiri: Sorry, this is a pet peeve. It's "would have", not "would of".

Nice progress overall

 

[Lanzelot]

It's "would have", not "would of".

As a non-native speaker it took me a while to figure that out... But now I understand this expression. (Slang, I assume?)

Nice progress indeed! I think, we are now less than 600 tiles from domination. With the help of Artemis we should be able to get these in less than 20 turns.

So here is my plan:

• Burn the big pile of cash (3500g), we have assembled... (As John Lennon said, you can't take nuthin with you but your soul, so we better use it before the game is over.)
• Part of that money shall be used to rush a new fleet in the Kazan area to fight and wear down the pesty Dromons. (The Byzantines still have 6 Dromons there, which are a constant thread to any invasion force.)
• In the meantime assemble all our scattered forces for three concentrated campaigns:
  1. take the Byzantine eastern island. (Defenses should be low there, so we can keep the towns now.)
  2. take a large chunk of the Byzantine mainland to finally criple their war effort. (Main objectives: the Pyramids for more points and the Statue of Zeus.)
  3. finish off the Aztecs (main objective: the Oracle. With the Oracle we can finally reduce our lux slider to 0%, get more gold and finish the game faster.)
• Start re-taking Osman towns (except for Moscow...) This should already bring us close to the end of the game.

 

[Elephantium]

@Lanz: phrases like "would have" can be contracted like "would've" which sounds a lot like "would of". I think that's where it comes from - people typing out what it sounds like.

 

[choxorn]

Do you have time to play now, Lanz, or should robbus take the next set and you the one after?

 

[Lanzelot]

I can play. robbus will then have the honor of carrying the relay over the finish line...

 

[Lanzelot]

Any comments on the action plan? Otherwise I will start playing tonight.

 

[Elephantium]

Go get 'em!

 

[Lanzelot]

Pre-flight:
Spend a lot of gold on Galleys, Settlers and some units.
Hannibal is willing to sign an MA against Byzanz for dyes and spices. We also get 16gpt in the deal.
Reduce lux slider to 0%.
Attack the Byzantine stack with Armies and eKnight and reduce it to 4 units.
CivAssist estimates ~490 tiles to Domination, but we haven't uncovered enough of the map yet for a precise calculation. It's probably somewhere between 500 and 600 tiles.


Turn 191:
Destroy remainders of Byzantine stack at Honnigsvag and march north.

Take Smyrna (Leonardo's), Teayo, Huexotla.
Lux needs to be raised back to 10%. Strange: I think we lost only one of those exposed Berzerks in southern Aztecia?! Must have tipped the scale.

Turn 192:
Take Malinolco.
Sign a RiP with Carthage, cancel our RoP with Osmania and declare war. Take Konya.

Interturn we gain another MGL on defense, when an eKnight wins against a Byzantine vMI. We lose two Galleys against Dromon counter-attacks.

Turn 193:
CivAssist now says 735 tiles to Dom limit. That's more than expected...
Take Tver, Amorium, Calixtlahuaca, Tlatelolco, Constantinople (with heavy losses ), Septum
Founding 4 new towns.
The sea battle against the Dromons is not going well, losing 5 Galleys this turn versus only 3 wins.

Lux spending can again be lowered to 0%.

Turn 194:
646 tiles to Domination.
Not much happening...

Interturn: Istanbul completes J.S.Bach's Cathedral. We -- need -- this --

Turn 195:
620 tiles to Domination. (Got a few culture expansions interturn.)

Take Tlaxcala, Tlacopan, Chalcedon,
Get another MGL! I'll keep that Army for Istanbul.

Found 2-3 towns.

Turn 196:
Tlatelolco flips, after I just chopped a forest into it...
574 tiles left.

Capture Tlalmanalco, Nicomedia, Tepetlaoxtoc
Found 3 more towns.

Turn 197:
521 tiles left.

Capture Chalco, Aydin, Antalya.
Found a few towns.

Turn 198:
429 tiles left.

Capture Tenochtitlan (Oracle, finally!), Chiconautlan, Ankara, Sinop and in a peace deal with Byzanz: Prilep, Ohrid, Vidin, Rusuccuru, Trebizond.

Turn 199:
328 tiles left. We have now 66% of the world's population!

Capture Tlatelolco, the Aztecs are no longer.
Capture Brusa, Caesarea, Kafa.
Found a few towns.

Interturn a Byzantine AC captures Constantinople.

Turn 200:
263 tiles left.

Capture Sardica, Varna, Constantinople, Heraclea, Iznik, Bursa
I get another MGL in Osmania, which immediately forms a Berzerk Army.

There is still an un-opened goody hut in 850 AD!! What is the AI doing?!? Completely incompetent.

Interturn I lose that new Army near Iznik to a couple of Crusader attacks. (Not so incompetent after all )

Turn 201, 860 AD:
171 tiles to Domination.

Capture Adrianople. Byzanz is gone.
Capture Edrine, but it is endangered by 4 Crusaders. Fortunately I can destroy all of them with the other Army and a couple shiploads of Berzerks. Pillage the Ottoman iron.

Handover notes: there are now only 123 tiles to Domination. You should be able to get these in the next 3-4 turns:

• Fill the last gaps on the Aztec continent. Some settlers are already on their way there.
• Same in Byzanz.
• The Osmans are down to their last 5 cities. Let the Army heal 2 turns, and ship more Berzerks to Osmania - there is a ship chain in place from Birka to Istanbul!
• Once all the Armies in Byzanz have healed and got into attack positions, you may also declare on Carthage and capture a few towns there. Their iron and saltpeter is ready for pillage. (Once Osmania is conquered, the ships and Berzerks there can reach the Carthaginian west coast within a turn and take further towns.) The Army in Aztecia (and another left over Berzerk) can take that Carthaginian town there.

(Just noticed I had T191 twice in my list. So I did a turn too many...)

 

[Lanzelot]

Current World Map:

 

[Nathiri]

I did not expect the Byzantines to fall so quickly.

Great job on successfully winning on so many fronts Lanz.