Top 5 leaders on noble vs. monarch

[Sportyatuncw06]

So as I am reading threads and following games picking up new skills and I have found many aspects of my gameplay that were successful on noble are not on monarch. As I change my game new leaders and trais have opened my eyes. I want to open up a discussion on the top 5 leaders but I want to look specifically at noble and monarch. Who are the top 5 for noble and does your list change at monarch? Traits I used to like don't seem as helpfully anymore as I move up in difficulty. Also give me your worst 3 on noble and on monarch. Are there are leaders and traits or UU's or UB that get much better or worse with increase in difficulty?

 

[hzf]

I find that traits are the most important, followed by a few of the UB and UU (most make no difference).

Expansive and charismatic are always good. Financial and Creative are usualy good. Philosophical is good when you get one or more 4+ food resource cities, or when you over-expand (by conquest or land-blocking) in the ancient era and have the research slider at 0% (when this happens you need to be running scientists with libraries). Organised is usually good, but sometimes you just wont be able to get more than 6-8 cities for a good part of the game. I dont especially like spiritual, imperialistic, industrious, aggressive or defensive (although aggressive is ok for Shaka as you get a really cheap useful early UB).

I would rate them something like:

• Expansive
• Charismatic
• Creative
• Financial
• Philosophical
• Organised
• Imperialistic
• Spiritual
• Industrious
• Aggressive
• Defensive

UB's of note would be the aquaduct replacements. The Mint or Terrace can be useful. The courthouse replacements are ok, as is Shaka's UB. The monument replacements are pretty good also.

Typically the early UU's are the best. The chariot replacements are excellent, as is the Vulture. The Quecha allows for a very early kill. Praetorians are very strong. Samuri are excellent, but I still dont like to play Japan.

 

[Ataxerxes]

Short, simple observations

Inca are very good at all levels, but they improve at Monarch. Below monarch, you can warrior rush. Only the Inca can use a warrior (Quechua) rush at monarch or above. Their traits and UB are excellent as well. If they aren't the strongest Civ, they're one of the top 5.

Organized becomes more important as you move up. City maintenance usually isn't a significant problem at Noble. At Monarch, you start to feel it.

You may use bulbs more to keep get techs for trading more at Monarch. Philosophical becomes stronger as you move up.

Hope this helps.

 

[Jamuka]

I think you would find these traits to be fairly well accepted on the forum

Top 5 traits, monarch (in no particular order):
Financial
Organised
Charismatic
Philosophical
Spiritual

Top 5 Deity
Creative
Imperialistic
Expansive
+ any 2 of the 5 from the monarch list

Top 5 UU's, monarch and noble
Quechua
Praetorian
War chariot
Immortal
Vulture
... All early rushing UU's

Top 5 UU's, deity
Quechua
Praetorian
Janissary
Red-coat
Oromo-warrior
... If any of you can reliably pull off an immortal rush on deity, I'm all ears

Top traits, noble
Difficult to say, and varies widely amongst noble players. In general, i think noble players would benefit most from these traits
Financial
Organised
Creative
...The top traits for a deity player playing on noble would be very different. Philosophical, industrious, aggressive, etc would be up there.

Best UB's is dependent on so many other factors i don't think it's possible to say.

 

[Sportyatuncw06]

So what leaders in particular do you find good at noble but not soo good at monarch and above or vice versa?

 

[Jamuka]

I think leaders with industrious and aggressive can be fairly good at noble, but lose a lot of strength at monarch. The medieval UUs (pre-gunpowder) and the russian/german/american UUs go from mediocre on noble to bad on monarch.
Specific leaders i think get a lot worse above noble are Stalin, either Mongolian leader, Shaka, Tokugawa, Justinian, Augustus Caesar, Bismark, Willem van Orange, a few more...

If you're starting monarch, leaders you may underestimate are the 'good' financial and organized leaders. These leaders in particular gain a lot of strength at monarch/emperor:

Best Organized leaders:
Mehmed
Zara Yaqab
Asoka
Darius

Best financial leaders (though most financial leaders are very good...)
Hyuana capac
Lizzy
Mansa Musa
Darius

Those 7 civs would probably all be on the 'top 10 monarch leaders' list. Civs high on that list without financial or organized are:
Hatshepsut
Lincoln
Gandhi


I guess a simpler way to say all of this is: leaders with financial or organized get a lot better, and you may as well choose the spectacular leaders that also have those traits.

 

[mariogreymist]

I found as I moved from noble-prince-monarch I began to appreciate balanced leaders a lot more. Leaders that can do a lot of different things gain a lot as you move up the difficulty levels. EXP gains greatly, as it is at this level that you will get punished if you don't get enough workers out and grow your cities rapidly. ORG is also a big one, as upkeep costs and distance penalties get more severe, meaning those cheap courthouses gain value.

The five leaders I began to really like between playing noble and winning on monarch:
1: Mehmed (I find him to be the most versatile leader, and is still my favorite playing emperor/immortal)
2: Darius (I liked him fine at noble, but he gained value as I advanced)
3: Washington
4: Julius Caesar (I preferred Augustus at Noble)
5: Isabella

 

[kivanc]

on noble/monarch, AI doesn't get a good bonus, maintenance is of less issue and barb activity is weak. on these levels, territory will have the biggest effect. tech speed, military strength etc. will be almost completely related to #of cities. so u should rex as early and as fast as u can.

* on isolation my best 5: lizzy, fred, gandhi, joao, roosevelt. 6th could be darius.
* non-isolated leaders with good UUs & rexers could be the choice. my best 5: hc, cyrus, julius caesar, cathy, Suleiman. 6th could be Genghis.

 

[eireksten]

On my way from prince to Emperor (I never really played noble and below), I began liking these leaders more:

Isabella (SPI/EXP)
Tokugawa (AGG/PRO)
Asoka (SPI/ORG)
Gilgamesh (CRE/PRO)
Roosevelt (IND/ORG)

I don't think it has much to do with difficulty, though. It's more to do with adapting my game and making it more fun.

 

[Sportyatuncw06]

I really loved Ind at noble. It is garbage on monarch. I hated SPI on noble. It is one of my favs on monarch. Org and FIN I think are good and never loose strength as you move up. Anyone else feel Agg and PRO are kinnda sorry also? CRE is another one I hated on noble but have really come to enjoy on monarch

 

[Sportyatuncw06]

On noble these were my 5 favs (but i would say I didn't give some others a try)
1)Roosey (ind, org)
2) Bis (exp, ind)
3)Huayna (ind, fin) and queshas
4) Jules (org, imp) Praets!
5) Augsto (imp, ind) Praets!

on monarch
1) Meh (exp,org)
2) Darius (org,fin)
3) Liz (phi, fin)
4) Zara (cre, org)
5 Fred (phi, org)

Is it just me or are the Celts worthless? I think Bodica and Brennus are the 2 worst at any level. I don't like Toku, Church, Sal, or Quin either

 

[kivanc]

Is it just me or are the Celts worthless? I think Bodica and Brennus are the 2 worst at any level. I don't like Toku, Church, Sal, or Quin either

sure, these are wrong.
Celts and Churchill are good. Sal and Quin have some positive sides. Toku, I don't find good.

 

[raxid]

sure, these are wrong.
Celts and Churchill are good. Sal and Quin have some positive sides. Toku, I don't find good.

Samurai are amazing.

 

[mechaerik]

Economically, Toku is horrible. However, if you make it to gunpowder, every unit is a uu!


I'm playing monarch, and so far i've only managed to win with Hatty, but i've done good with Willem (he's especially good on archipelago and high water maps) and Darius. Gilgamesh seems like a decent leader too (high powered axes, cheap and early courthouses and CRE and PRO are pretty good together).

 

[Thor7]

Short version: My top 3 leaders are HC, JC, Darius. Next best 3 are Mehmed, Zara and Hattie. Holds true for almost any difficulty.


Long version:

It's difficult to totally quantify because a leader encompasses so many things- traits, UU, UB, and all these change in value depending on the map and difficulty and sometimes your neighbors.

With that said, one trait that I thought I couldn't live without at noble I found barely pulling its weight at monarch. Industrious loses a ton of value, since you're not going to be wonderspamming on monarch, unless that's your overall strategy I guess.

Some say aggressive loses value, but I disagree as it helps your axe rush quite a bit.

Other traits don't really get worse, but maybe get passed as some become much better. Organized is solid any level but really shines at monarch level when maintenence costs get expensive. Financial is great, phillosophical becomes better since you are bulbing to catch up or stay ahead in tech more often. Creative becomes more important the greater the difficulty level as the AI expands quicker and you need to grab land faster.

My top 5 leaders don't change much though because they generally have dynamite UUs as well as great traits. In no particular order:

Hyuna Capac
Julius Ceaser
Darius

are the top 3 without a doubt. Dynamite UUs, awesome trait combos.

Mehmed
Zara Yaqob
Hattshepsut

are the next best 3 imo. Couldn't narrow it down to five just because the egyptian chariot is so strong. Obviously cyrus or maybe agustus could be stronger than say zara, but since someone from their civ is already represented I left them off.

 

[Thor7]

Samurai are amazing.

I find the majority of players (and the majority of my games) tend to avoid middle ages wars, and thus samurai. Generally we go from rush/land grab -> build phase -> get steel or rifles -> conquer enough land for your victory type.

 

[Tlalynet]

Thats speed dependent, on normal the middle ages breeze by but there is room for midevil war on epic and you can war and rebuild in every age on marathon.

 

[bestsss]

On noble these were my 5 favs (but i would say I didn't give some others a try)
1)Roosey (ind, org)
2) Bis (exp, ind)
3)Huayna (ind, fin) and queshas
4) Jules (org, imp) Praets!
5) Augsto (imp, ind) Praets!

on monarch
1) Meh (exp,org)
2) Darius (org,fin)
3) Liz (phi, fin)
4) Zara (cre, org)
5 Fred (phi, org)

Is it just me or are the Celts worthless? I think Bodica and Brennus are the 2 worst at any level. I don't like Toku, Church, Sal, or Quin either

It's just you.
If you seriously consider Churchill bad...
btw Huyana/Darius are like godlike on any level.

 

[Thor7]

It's just you.
If you seriously consider Churchill bad...
btw Huyana/Darius are like godlike on any level.

I'm pretty sure people only like churchill because protective + redcoats = slaughter enemy rifles. But if you already have artillery by the time they get rifles... I think there are many better choices for leaders and I'd take victoria over churchill any day.

About medieval warfare, sure there is plenty of time to do it, but is it going to benefit you that much? That's the question I always ask myself, and usually the answer is no or marginally. Building all those units slows down my vertical growth and their costs slows down my research. Medieval war is not fast since longbows and castles easily beat maces so you must bombard everything to zero first and still sacrifice some trebs to soften up the top defenders sometimes. I've always had more success simply building up my empire, going for techs and rushing someone with 20 rifles or cannons. The wars are faster and my economy is much further along. That's why I find toku bad- he doesn't fit my strategy well at all.

 

[Tlalynet]

I guess it depends on if you're playing a difficulty level that you can just out-tech the AI or not. If I can get rifling well before them then of course crushing everything with cavalry is viable, but if I can't get it much ahead of them I'd definitely prefer to pit maces against longbows than rifles against rifles.

Samurai are the best midevil cannon support if you do the cannon beeline, free first strikes means they take less damage, and CR lets them have more str than muskets. Of course Oromo warriors are the best if all UU's are considered, but Toku has better warmonger traits.