Tour de France 2009

[thetrooper]

This picture says everything there is to know about the rivalry in Astana

Scroll down a bit. Never mind that the text is in Norwegian...

 

[El Koeno]

This picture says everything there is to know about the rivalry in Astana

Scroll down a bit. Never mind that the text is in Norwegian...

Awesome photo.

 

[Serutan]

The soap opera beginneth.

 

[Irish Caesar]

Both guys are such team players that on the podium, they choose to wear the caps of their team. Oh, wait, no, Lance has his project on his cap and Alberto has his stupid pistol gesture he makes when he wins.

They both have massive egos, but so what? The personality behind the sport makes it more fun to watch. Any sport would kill to have this sort of rivalry.

 

[Serutan]

They both have massive egos, but so what? The personality behind the sport makes it more fun to watch. Any sport would kill to have this sort of rivalry.

This is true. What irks me is that a lot of the American media coverage seems to be trying to pretend that that is *not* true in Lance's case.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Except that he hadn't finished yet. The race was still on, and the rider he was supposed to be riding for just did a great time trial. It was a really pathetic move by Lance.

Ah. I thought it as something he had done at the end of the Tour, not while it was still going on. i really don't know enough about bicycling to form an opinion about the appropriateness of that, but it does sound like a case of bad timing.

And I sense that some of you seem to resent Armstrong quite a bit from all the comments. I knew the French didn't like him from the coverage of previous races, but I didn't realize it had become the past time in Europe.

I think it is quite clear that Lance Armstrong has such a following in the US because he fought terminal cancer, not so much because he won the Tour de France multiple times. Most Americans still don't know who Greg LeMond was, and they could really care less about bicycling under normal conditions. And I think that reality likely reflects in the Versus reporting because they are trying to generate more interest to boost their ratings. If you haven't noticed yet, we are a very provincial country when it comes to international sports, and our sports coverage isn't exactly investigative journalism at its finest.

 

[J-man]

And I sense that some of you seem to resent Armstrong quite a bit from all the comments. I knew the French didn't like him from the coverage of previous races, but I didn't realize it had become the past time in Europe.

I don't resent Armstrong and I don't think other Europeans resent him (except the French ). Keep in mind that the cycling world is a hard one and can be dirty. There has been mudslinging to Armstrong but also from Armstrong himself. I think Europeans are generally more informed of this because the sport is more popular here nad has more 'tradition'.

 

[Darkness]

And I sense that some of you seem to resent Armstrong quite a bit from all the comments. I knew the French didn't like him from the coverage of previous races, but I didn't realize it had become the past time in Europe.

Europeans, with the possible exception of a portion of the French, don't resent Armstrong at all. We're simple able to put his performances more in perspective (compared to Americans) due to the bigger awareness of cycling history and tradition.
For the record: I think he's the 2nd best cyclist ever. He worked extremely hard to achieve what he did and nothing but respect for him from me.

I think it is quite clear that Lance Armstrong has such a following in the US because he fought terminal cancer, not so much because he won the Tour de France multiple times.

Let's not get ahead of the facts here. Lance Armstrong had testicular cancer with metastasis to the brain and lungs. Terrible disease, but terminal cancer is something else alltogether. Armstrongs prognosis was poor, but people with terminal cancer are in the late stage of the disease and are dying without any hope of recovery whatsoever.
Semantics, perhaps, but there's a big difference between the disease that Lance Armstrong had and the disease you say he had...

 

[El Koeno]

And I sense that some of you seem to resent Armstrong quite a bit from all the comments. I knew the French didn't like him from the coverage of previous races, but I didn't realize it had become the past time in Europe.

Well, I used to respect Armstrong more than I do now. He has a great story, but Sastre said it best when he said that Lance is a great champion, but as a human being, he has a lot to learn. And because he could not win this tour, his negative side took the the upper hand this year. But anyway you put it, reaching the third place was quite an achievement.

 

[Formaldehyde]

I think Europeans are generally more informed of this because the sport is more popular here nad has more 'tradition'.

There is no doubt about that. Bicycling in the US is probably 10 times more popular than it was a few decades ago, but it is still largely ignored for the most part.

Let's not get ahead of the facts here. Lance Armstrong had testicular cancer with metastasis to the brain and lungs. Terrible disease, but terminal cancer is something else alltogether. Armstrongs prognosis was poor, but people with terminal cancer are in the late stage of the disease and are dying without any hope of recovery whatsoever.
Semantics, perhaps, but there's a big difference between the disease that Lance Armstrong had and the disease you say he had...

I characterize terminal cancer as being any form where you are not expected to survive, not where you don't have "any hope of recovery whatsoever".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminal_illness

Terminal illness is a medical term popularized in the 20th century to describe an active and malignant disease that cannot be cured or adequately treated and that is reasonably expected to result in the death of the patient. This term is more commonly used for progressive diseases such as cancer or advanced heart disease than for trauma. In popular use, it indicates a disease which will end the life of the sufferer.

 

[Darkness]

Ahh, the ultimate truth that is wikipedia...

I characterize terminal cancer as being any form where you are not expected to survive, not where you don't have "any hope of recovery whatsoever".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminal_illness

Let's just agree to disagree here. No need to go discuss this in a cycling thread...

 

[Eniotna]

I didn't like Armstrong and I think a fair part of cycling fans didn't either. This for the following reasons:

1) He dominated the Tour for 7 years. And no-one likes dominators. Poulidor has always been far more popular than Anquetil or Merckx.
2)The way he dominated. Every year, it was the same scenario: give the opposition a first slap in the face at the TTT then definatively crushing it in the first mountain stage. Then he would just let his team control the race and deal with the ones who still dared to attack him. Way to kill the excitement for the rest of the Tour! He'd always try to use the least possible energy during the race to achieve his goals and win the Tour. A very modern and very professional approach of cycling, but not the most popular. People want to see a winner with a bit more panache, someone who would take a risk, give everything he can or even more.
3)No offense, but he's an arrogant jerk.

There were also the doping allegations, but I think that since Operacion Puerto, people know better.

I think Armstrong is less hated this year, precisely because he lost and because he's more relaxed. Still, what he did to Contador this Tour sure doesn't make him friendlier.

 

[Serutan]

2)The way he dominated. Every year, it was the same scenario: give the opposition a first slap in the face at the TTT then definatively crushing it in the first mountain stage. Then he would just let his team control the race and deal with the ones who still dared to attack him. Way to kill the excitement for the rest of the Tour!

Indurain was even worse (more boring) in that respect. I don't think he ever won anything other than a TT in his yellow jersey years.

 

[Jan H]

I don't think he ever won anything other than a TT in his yellow jersey years.

iirc, that's true. He won two mountain stages, but that was when he was still the master-aid of Pedro Delgado.
On the other hand, I think he could have won more stages later in his carreer, but some say he let his opponents win the stages, to keep them happy, and so that he could focus on the overall standings... (I remember a stage in Liège, in 1995, where he escaped together with Johan Bruyneel)

 

[MCdread]

For the record: I think he's the 2nd best cyclist ever. He worked extremely hard to achieve what he did and nothing but respect for him from me.

Hmm... what abut Hinault? Surely he's the only guy that ever performed remotely close to Merckx's standars.

Anyway, I don't think europeans hate Armstrong systematically at all. I think even the french case is a bit blown out of proportion and he's admired by many people there. I suppose the ambiguous relation might stem from the fact that in his early winning years, many people at the top of the cycling hierarchy used his personal story to boost the popularity of the race and thus avoiding taking serious action to address the problems and unprecedented crisis that developed after the Festina affair (despite whichever opinion one has about doping and Armstrong).

A same development is taking place again this year btw, as the ASO bosses decided that the anti-doping rhetoric of the race organizers (ie, their employees) was devaluing their race. A few people were thus replaced and the Armstrong vs. Contador soap opera came at just the right time to quietly promote this change of attitudes.

 

[J-man]

Here's is the ranking of Daniel Marszalek
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Marszalek's_cyclist_ranking

Considered THE ranking in cycling. The latest is from 2007 so a little outdated.
Armstrong is ranked only 15th but that is mainly because he almost exclusively rode the Tour de France. Also, cyclists who where active in the eighties 'suffered' very though competition.

 

[J-man]

Astarloza has been caught in an out-of-competition doping check. I have no English source yet.

 

[dutchfire]

Alas, no clean tour again.

 

[J-man]

Alas, no clean tour again.

Few people expected this tour to be clean. After so many years of doping history, it's going to take a couple of years to root it out. If that's at all possible.

 

[thetrooper]

Finally congrats to Astarloza!

Oh well!

Another Spanish rider...

Another EPO CERA case?

I wonder how long this dope is effective - a week, a month, several months?